Norm Smith

[Biffen 12,559]

Howe , Watts ,Jurrah ,Clark ,Davey ,Petterd .

If we can win a few clearances ,these guys will kick enough .

I'm pumped for 2012 .

[Whispering_Jack 28,118]

I mentioned above the situation at Melbourne in the post Norm Smith era and the phenomenon that some have described as the Norm Smith curse but I've often wondered how different the club's history might have been had the Red Fox been appointed coach of the club when he first applied for the job.

When Melbourne won its sixth premiership in 1948 (thanks to a brilliant finals series from key forwards Smith and Jack Mueller), long term coach Frank V. 'Checker' Hughes decided to retire as coach. Smith applied for the position but the committee decided (by a single vote) to award it to former champion player and premiership captain, Allan LaFontaine. Smith switched to Fitzroy as captain-coach where he had moderate success while the aging Demons under La Fontaine crashed down to the bottom of the ladder by 1951.

Smith returned and the rest is history but I wonder what might have happened had he been appointed to coach the club for the 1949 season. The club was about to experience a downward slide and was desperately in need of a rebuild. Would he have remained long enough to benefit from the recruitment of those champion players who came to the club in 1953 & 1954 and had such an immediate impact on the game.

There's no question that Smith's wizardry and coaching guile was a significant contributory to the six premierships and Melbourne's domination of the decade from 1955 onwards but was it a case of being in the right place at the right time and would he have been there at all if appointed as coach on his first try at the end of 1948?

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

I mentioned above the situation at Melbourne in the post Norm Smith era and the phenomenon that some have described as the Norm Smith curse but I've often wondered how different the club's history might have been had the Red Fox been appointed coach of the club when he first applied for the job.

When Melbourne won its sixth premiership in 1948 (thanks to a brilliant finals series from key forwards Smith and Jack Mueller), long term coach Frank V. 'Checker' Hughes decided to retire as coach. Smith applied for the position but the committee decided (by a single vote) to award it to former champion player and premiership captain, Allan LaFontaine. Smith switched to Fitzroy as captain-coach where he had moderate success while the aging Demons under La Fontaine crashed down to the bottom of the ladder by 1951.

Smith returned and the rest is history but I wonder what might have happened had he been appointed to coach the club for the 1949 season. The club was about to experience a downward slide and was desperately in need of a rebuild. Would he have remained long enough to benefit from the recruitment of those champion players who came to the club in 1953 & 1954 and had such an immediate impact on the game.

There's no question that Smith's wizardry and coaching guile was a significant contributory to the six premierships and Melbourne's domination of the decade from 1955 onwards but was it a case of being in the right place at the right time and would he have been there at all if appointed as coach on his first try at the end of 1948?

Interesting ideas WJ...It was probably good Norm got experience elsewhere first...but we will never know

[dee-luded 2,958]

Wouldn't it be poetic justice that Ron Barassi's Irish experiment - which led to the "Irish experiment" of running across the mark in the '87 prelim - also led to the ultimate revival of our club and its legends.

That 'spirit' which is passed on through 'infection', can be inherited, or by contagion. It gets into the Love & the Passion centers of the patient, & whammo.

But it takes the guts to use it & to go into combat with it.

To risk your 'public perceived' Mojo.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,268]

Interesting ideas WJ...It was probably good Norm got experience elsewhere first...but we will never know

Norm's success was not instant. In his first year(1952) we finished 6th and in his second year we slipped to 11th or second last. So, it took time for his strict methods to bear fruit. Mind you, by 1954 he had a magnificent playing list of new players to work with. In 1953 and '54 we recruited Frank Adams,Ron Barassi,Geoff Case,Peter Marquis,Ken Melville, Don Williams, Brian Dixon, Bob Johnson,Clyde Laidlaw, Laurie Mithen, and Ian Ridley. What an outstanding bunch to collect in just two seasons.

[Sdemon53 15]

I mentioned above the situation at Melbourne in the post Norm Smith era and the phenomenon that some have described as the Norm Smith curse but I've often wondered how different the club's history might have been had the Red Fox been appointed coach of the club when he first applied for the job.

When Melbourne won its sixth premiership in 1948 (thanks to a brilliant finals series from key forwards Smith and Jack Mueller), long term coach Frank V. 'Checker' Hughes decided to retire as coach. Smith applied for the position but the committee decided (by a single vote) to award it to former champion player and premiership captain, Allan LaFontaine. Smith switched to Fitzroy as captain-coach where he had moderate success while the aging Demons under La Fontaine crashed down to the bottom of the ladder by 1951.

Smith returned and the rest is history but I wonder what might have happened had he been appointed to coach the club for the 1949 season. The club was about to experience a downward slide and was desperately in need of a rebuild. Would he have remained long enough to benefit from the recruitment of those champion players who came to the club in 1953 & 1954 and had such an immediate impact on the game.

There's no question that Smith's wizardry and coaching guile was a significant contributory to the six premierships and Melbourne's domination of the decade from 1955 onwards but was it a case of being in the right place at the right time and would he have been there at all if appointed as coach on his first try at the end of 1948?

Whispering Jack the result would still probably be roughly the same as it was as Albert Chadwick became chairman of the board in 1950 and Jim Cardwell was secretary from 1951. Norm Smith would have had the same players as La Fontaine. Plus he would still be a coach learning how to do the job. Norm has said his years at Fitzroy was a great learning experience. The other factor is the club still had to recruit many of our premiership players. Ian Ridley told me that while Smith was a great coach he still had some of the best players running around in those days in the Melbourne team. What Norm Smith did was get the best out of them more often than not according to Ridley.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

Whispering Jack the result would still probably be roughly the same as it was as Albert Chadwick became chairman of the board in 1950 and Jim Cardwell was secretary from 1951. Norm Smith would have had the same players as La Fontaine. Plus he would still be a coach learning how to do the job. Norm has said his years at Fitzroy was a great learning experience. The other factor is the club still had to recruit many of our premiership players. Ian Ridley told me that while Smith was a great coach he still had some of the best players running around in those days in the Melbourne team. What Norm Smith did was get the best out of them more often than not according to Ridley.

Very similiar to John Northey in a lot of ways. Swooper just didn't have ultimate class to work with.

[Deeoldfart 7,852]

Norm's success was not instant. In his first year(1952) we finished 6th and in his second year we slipped to 11th or second last. So, it took time for his strict methods to bear fruit. Mind you, by 1954 he had a magnificent playing list of new players to work with. In 1953 and '54 we recruited Frank Adams,Ron Barassi,Geoff Case,Peter Marquis,Ken Melville, Don Williams, Brian Dixon, Bob Johnson,Clyde Laidlaw, Laurie Mithen, and Ian Ridley. What an outstanding bunch to collect in just two seasons.

Spot on bobby. The nucleus of our premiership success over the next decade.

[Whispering_Jack 28,118]

The nucleus of our premiership success over the next decade.

And it could have been so much better. I remember having a chat with Jim Cardwell at the end of an MFC AGM in the early 1970s. They used to send those of us who stayed on to a canteen area near the old long room where we were served drinks, party pies and sausage rolls and the committee, staff and players came to answer any questions the members had to ask. Someone asked Jim about the great players he signed up and who became members of our great premiership decade and he told us that the best of them all never came down from the country to play for the club. His name was Bill Barham and Jim swore that he would have been a champion if only he wanted to play in the city. Barham was the father of Collingwood star Ricky Barham, a winger for the Pies in the 70s who was recruited from their country zone. Two other sons, Bill Jr. and Jamie had brief careers with the Demons. Jim went on to say he had St. Kilda legend Darryl Baldock signed on a Form 4 in 1958 but that lapsed after two years. He also spoke about how close he came to getting Polly Farmer and later Peter Hudson. Geelong and North Melbourne premiership player and champion full forward Doug Wade trained at Melbourne in the 1959 pre season. Smith sent him home to beef up because he felt he was too light for a VFL KPP. Wade took Smith's advice but instead of coming back in 1960 he went to Kardinia Park. I don't think Jim forgot a thing. Someone should write a book about him one day.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Norm's success was not instant. In his first year(1952) we finished 6th and in his second year we slipped to 11th or second last. So, it took time for his strict methods to bear fruit. Mind you, by 1954 he had a magnificent playing list of new players to work with. In 1953 and '54 we recruited Frank Adams,Ron Barassi,Geoff Case,Peter Marquis,Ken Melville, Don Williams, Brian Dixon, Bob Johnson,Clyde Laidlaw, Laurie Mithen, and Ian Ridley. What an outstanding bunch to collect in just two seasons.

It takes a little time to go thru a rebuilding phase. Smithy was lucky we had the pulling power of the MCG to attract players. Especially to be able to garner so many quality, so quickly whilst competing against the other VIC sides.

[Sir Why You Little 35,321]

i heard Doug Wade talking on SEN one night, that he almost went to Melbourne, but he lived so close to Kardinia Park.

I instantly felt ill. Imagine Doug Wade at Full Forward....

[Deeoldfart 7,852]

And it could have been so much better. I remember having a chat with Jim Cardwell at the end of an MFC AGM in the early 1970s. They used to send those of us who stayed on to a canteen area near the old long room where we were served drinks, party pies and sausage rolls and the committee, staff and players came to answer any questions the members had to ask. Someone asked Jim about the great players he signed up and who became members of our great premiership decade and he told us that the best of them all never came down from the country to play for the club. His name was Bill Barham and Jim swore that he would have been a champion if only he wanted to play in the city. Barham was the father of Collingwood star Ricky Barham, a winger for the Pies in the 70s who was recruited from their country zone. Two other sons, Bill Jr. and Jamie had brief careers with the Demons. Jim went on to say he had St. Kilda legend Darryl Baldock signed on a Form 4 in 1958 but that lapsed after two years. He also spoke about how close he came to getting Polly Farmer and later Peter Hudson. Geelong and North Melbourne premiership player and champion full forward Doug Wade trained at Melbourne in the 1959 pre season. Smith sent him home to beef up because he felt he was too light for a VFL KPP. Wade took Smith's advice but instead of coming back in 1960 he went to Kardinia Park. I don't think Jim forgot a thing. Someone should write a book about him one day.

Wow .... most of that is news to me. Bill Barham's name rings a faint bell (possibly in connection with his sons), and I was aware that we once had 'The Doc's' name on a Form 4, but I had no idea that the likes of Wade, Hudson and Farmer were all potential Demons, before making their names at other clubs, and becoming VFL/AFL 'all time greats' .

[Sdemon53 15]

And it could have been so much better. I remember having a chat with Jim Cardwell at the end of an MFC AGM in the early 1970s. They used to send those of us who stayed on to a canteen area near the old long room where we were served drinks, party pies and sausage rolls and the committee, staff and players came to answer any questions the members had to ask. Someone asked Jim about the great players he signed up and who became members of our great premiership decade and he told us that the best of them all never came down from the country to play for the club. His name was Bill Barham and Jim swore that he would have been a champion if only he wanted to play in the city. Barham was the father of Collingwood star Ricky Barham, a winger for the Pies in the 70s who was recruited from their country zone. Two other sons, Bill Jr. and Jamie had brief careers with the Demons. Jim went on to say he had St. Kilda legend Darryl Baldock signed on a Form 4 in 1958 but that lapsed after two years. He also spoke about how close he came to getting Polly Farmer and later Peter Hudson. Geelong and North Melbourne premiership player and champion full forward Doug Wade trained at Melbourne in the 1959 pre season. Smith sent him home to beef up because he felt he was too light for a VFL KPP. Wade took Smith's advice but instead of coming back in 1960 he went to Kardinia Park. I don't think Jim forgot a thing. Someone should write a book about him one day.

Whispering Jack you could imagine what could have been if we did not the political rubbish going from 1963 at Melbourne and the MCC supported their football side. I have no doubt with a stable club and more money Jim Cardwell would have maintained a lot stronger side than we had. In the late 80's I met Graham Wise in Albury, he had a motel near Soden's Hotel. Graham said that Norm Smith suggested that he leave at the end of the 1966 season. The feeling I got was that he could have put in a few more seasons. The gist of what I remember is that Norm was not happy how the club was being run and he thought it better for some players to leave. Ever since I have always wondered what if Sir Albert Chadwick had been able to stay on as chairman for another 10 years or so. He was the President of the MCC from 1963 - 1978, so therefore his master was the MCC instead of the Melbourne Football Club. The other very big influence Melbourne had was Frank 'Checker' Hughes. From some of the comments from past players such as Stuart Spencer for one who spoke about him with great respect. Checker was born in 1894 so he was getting on in the sixties. Even though he coached the side in 1965 for one game.

Another player Jim Cardwell had signed up was Barrie Robran. However Robran wouldn't make the move to Victoria. For those that never saw Barrie Robran play he would now be considered probably one of the best players in the AFL. He dominated the SAFL from about 1967 until Leigh Matthews hit him late in a interstate match which stuffed his knee up in 1974 and therefore was not the force he once was. I only ever saw him play in interstate matches and he certainly was as good as any player the big V had.

[bush demon 1,928]

Whispering Jack you could imagine what could have been if we did not the political rubbish going from 1963 at Melbourne and the MCC supported their football side. I have no doubt with a stable club and more money Jim Cardwell would have maintained a lot stronger side than we had. In the late 80's I met Graham Wise in Albury, he had a motel near Soden's Hotel. Graham said that Norm Smith suggested that he leave at the end of the 1966 season. The feeling I got was that he could have put in a few more seasons. The gist of what I remember is that Norm was not happy how the club was being run and he thought it better for some players to leave. Ever since I have always wondered what if Sir Albert Chadwick had been able to stay on as chairman for another 10 years or so. He was the President of the MCC from 1963 - 1978, so therefore his master was the MCC instead of the Melbourne Football Club. The other very big influence Melbourne had was Frank 'Checker' Hughes. From some of the comments from past players such as Stuart Spencer for one who spoke about him with great respect. Checker was born in 1894 so he was getting on in the sixties. Even though he coached the side in 1965 for one game.

Another player Jim Cardwell had signed up was Barrie Robran. However Robran wouldn't make the move to Victoria. For those that never saw Barrie Robran play he would now be considered probably one of the best players in the AFL. He dominated the SAFL from about 1967 until Leigh Matthews hit him late in a interstate match which stuffed his knee up in 1974 and therefore was not the force he once was. I only ever saw him play in interstate matches and he certainly was as good as any player the big V had.

Bits of Robran here, what a gun player he was:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqJBwvbWS8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZqJBwvbWS8&feature=related