On 28/09/2011 at 03:16, DemonWA said:

Fixed

Not saying he doesnt haev value, but he's not the superstar that many make him out to be IMO

Well it probably does not matter DemonWA as he appears locked in to Collingwood.

Missing the point. It's not whether Dawes is a star or locked into Collingwood, it's how he took four years to develop into a serviceable, useful bigman who has some currency. It's a route some are not prepared to provide for Fitzpatrick, apparently.

Living in WA I only get to see some VFL highlights or stuff on the net. Whilst his game against Port was Rabbit in the headlights stuff I would not judge him on that. From the glimpses I have seen he is light but that will change in another year or two. I have also seen some god signs in him attacking the contest which he even did a couple of times against Port just wasn't really up with the tempo, which will come.

So my way of thinking is he cost's very little and has a lot of upside. In 18 -24 months or seasons 2013 and beyond we will have a 200cm, 100kg Forward who will be able to attack and break packs we will be paying around $175-200k per season. I do not see us pushing any where near the Top 4 until this stage but if we were to draft Dawes or someone similar they would be doing much the same for around $5-600k perseason

  On 28/09/2011 at 04:14, Pennant St Dee said:

Living in WA I only get to see some VFL highlights or stuff on the net. Whilst his game against Port was Rabbit in the headlights stuff I would not judge him on that. From the glimpses I have seen he is light but that will change in another year or two. I have also seen some god signs in him attacking the contest which he even did a couple of times against Port just wasn't really up with the tempo, which will come.

So my way of thinking is he cost's very little and has a lot of upside. In 18 -24 months or seasons 2013 and beyond we will have a 200cm, 100kg Forward who will be able to attack and break packs we will be paying around $175-200k per season. I do not see us pushing any where near the Top 4 until this stage but if we were to draft Dawes or someone similar they would be doing much the same for around $5-600k perseason

Except that he would start doing it next year.

Now don't take that as a negative to Fitzpatrick.

I think we need both

  On 28/09/2011 at 04:21, old dee said:

Except that he would start doing it next year.

Now don't take that as a negative to Fitzpatrick.

I think we need both

Dont get me wrong both together would be good but I would not break the bank for Dawes, he would be a good aquisition but I would much rather spend that type of coin on a quality midfielder

  On 27/09/2011 at 10:23, belzebub59 said:

I dont quite understand the logic. Fitzy wont be costing us much and we really have no idera of how good he might get. The decions Id be making are on the "known" quantities. , the Dunn's , The Bates, The Newtons etc of this world. For mine even the Mortons but hes now contracted. In the grand scheme of things Jacks'; still got time on his side.

Off topic, why not just write "Dunn, Bate, Newton, even Morton". It's shorter and makes more sense.

I've never understood how making a player plural and adding "of this world" adds anything. You would have completed the most grating phrase in football commentary by adding "your" before the names.

Fitzy made a very ordinary debut

BUT he got to where the ball was

He will be OK

  On 27/09/2011 at 07:34, the master said:

Ok so we all got to see the Fitzy show at Adelaide Oval, but personally I'm not a fan. If he's not contracted I don't think we should accept mediocrity and keep him for any longer. His main attribute seems to be speed, which is nice, but it's not what I want in a key forward.

To me he seems to have put on only a minimal amount of weight and with the chronic fatigue I think it will take him a long time to bulk up. Plus he's injury prone. His kicking is not good enough for a key forward and I doubt it ever will be.

If Neeld brings a Collingwood style game plan to Melbourne then the players he wants as Key forwards and ruck forwards will be contested footy types who either mark on bring the ball to ground. I don't think Fitzpatrick can do that, he doesn't look strong enough in the air. As for his speed, as I said its nice but if we want someone burning defenders for speed we already have Jurrah.

Is making a tough call on a ruck/forward type after 2 years too harsh? Or if we keep this guy for more years are we just plodding along with another future Newton or Spencer.

I suggest you have already made your mind up no matter what anyone here says.

I see him as a Tyrone Vickery type (but better) in the making.

  On 28/09/2011 at 05:56, Big Kev said:

I suggest you have already made your mind up no matter what anyone here says.

I see him as a Tyrone Vickery type (but better) in the making.

Well if Mark Neeld, Mick Malthouse or Wayne Carey come on here and tell me he's going to make it then I'll believe them but yeah my view is hard to change, but 80 odd posts tells me it was worth expressing. And don't get me wrong I have no angst about Fitzy I just don't feel he's up to it.

Vickery is a handy player. He can clunk a mark and is a decent set shot. And he's got reasonable agility. That's a fair call. We'll see who's right.

  On 28/09/2011 at 04:05, maurie said:

it's how he took four years to develop into a serviceable, useful bigman who has some currency. It's a route some are not prepared to provide for Fitzpatrick, apparently.

Sorry to correct - it is a route that some are not prepared to provide for half the players on our list.

  On 27/09/2011 at 22:06, Rhino Richards said:

Cutting a guy who was drafted two years at pick 50 is a hard decision?? Hell, you wont cope with serious choices.

I can only think your straw poll was amongst 4 people and you were one of voters.

Do you ever read your posts?

Maybe because as a junior his laziness was attributed to CFS.

I am not sure what "rocket": you refer. Are you referring to issues with his training? Care to spill the beans?

There you go Redleg, Accepting mediocrity again. Why wait for a dropped mark or missed pass? We need to make tough decisions!!

Minf you on that criteria we might only have 7 on the list left after the first training session and six of those would be missing in rehab.

  On 28/09/2011 at 01:28, Dr. Mubutu said:

What a brilliant Film. Heath did brilliantly.

  On 28/09/2011 at 02:56, hardtack said:

Your description of the Fitz sounds as though it could equally be applied to a certain Colin Garland... care to comment on his abilities and how a laid back approach is detrimental to his game?

No. I would never have called Garland that, Layedback. But I can see where we are missing the point re interpretations.

I called Garland when he first started, 'Composed'.

I'm not calling Fitzy, composed or calm.

I'm saying, my definition, (Layedback, or Laconic) is how I described Brent Grgic.

I'm saying that maybe Fitzy, who I am a rap for, is in danger pf failing, if he doesn't learn to be more Urgent & less casual about the way her goes about the AFL.

He may end up Not developing himself fully, and fall behind, similarly how Sylvia has gone about things. As a big man, he cannot afford to do this.

That's what I was referring to. But maybe my grasp or others grasp of words leaves misperception.

  On 27/09/2011 at 07:38, belzebub59 said:

Put to the sword after ONE game, must be a new record

let have a look after 2 games , then we can really decide.

Sorry - the record is held by those who canned Blease after a quarter and a bit of a game against the roos, when he was subbed on for his first AFL game.

Now that's going to be hard to beat.

  On 27/09/2011 at 07:57, Bay Riffin said:

Yes but you could see Watts had elite skills, nice balance and could read the play ok.

Sorry Biffo, but my recollection was that Watts was always falling over and was often in the wrong places, although his footskills were good when he got a chance to display them.

You write well, but you spend to much time at the computer. You've just blown your reputation master. There are to many holes in your article to give it much credence

You couldnt see watts had v good kicking and handball skills ? His reading of the play was ok I reckon but would not commit to using his body.

I would be surprised if you couldn't see a chasm of difference between watts and fitz

I could see Watts had talent after the first game. I also watched him win the TAC cup for Vic Metro on you tube.

Don't listen to commentators or sheep and use your eyes-they are for seeing .

  On 28/09/2011 at 11:09, Biffen said:

I could see Watts had talent after the first game. I also watched him win the TAC cup for Vic Metro on you tube.

Don't listen to commentators or sheep and use your eyes-they are for seeing .

Ah yes, but some don't trust what they see. They don't believe themselves. And have to ask others if what they see is correct?

Watts fell over every 3 minutes or so in his first year or two, as I recall, and he will be a genuine superstar.

Sometimes I think people just post threads like this to fill in time.... I mean, we only have 42 players - surely if we stick at it we can cane them all eventually.

  On 28/09/2011 at 06:02, the master said:

Well if Mark Neeld, Mick Malthouse or Wayne Carey come on here and tell me he's going to make it then I'll believe them but yeah my view is hard to change, but 80 odd posts tells me it was worth expressing. And don't get me wrong I have no angst about Fitzy I just don't feel he's up to it.

Vickery is a handy player. He can clunk a mark and is a decent set shot. And he's got reasonable agility. That's a fair call. We'll see who's right.

FWIW I have seen Vickery play about 20 VFL games at least I reckon (in his 1st 2 seasons). And I've seen Fitzpatrick in about 4 or 5. At the same stage of development Fitzpatrick is miles ahead of Vickery. And I mean country miles. He moves better, marks better, does just about everything better... except kicking. Having said that, his set shots are not terrible anymore.

One of the games I saw early this year was a Casey 2nds game and he absolutely tore the opposition to shreds. Obviously this was Casey 2nds and it was against weaker opponents. But he positioned himself well, clunked every mark, was outstanding overhead and with his use of the body, and was always in front of his opponent on the lead. The boy can certainly beat similar sized opponents at that level and as he matures and gets bigger I believe he will be able to transfer this to AFL level. I am pretty upbeat about his future. Does not need to be another Buddy Franklin to be of value. If I try to think of someone I'd like him to emulate, perhaps could be a Paul Salmon type when he played forward.

  On 28/09/2011 at 13:59, pringle said:

FWIW I have seen Vickery play about 20 VFL games at least I reckon (in his 1st 2 seasons). And I've seen Fitzpatrick in about 4 or 5. At the same stage of development Fitzpatrick is miles ahead of Vickery. And I mean country miles. He moves better, marks better, does just about everything better... except kicking. Having said that, his set shots are not terrible anymore.

One of the games I saw early this year was a Casey 2nds game and he absolutely tore the opposition to shreds. Obviously this was Casey 2nds and it was against weaker opponents. But he positioned himself well, clunked every mark, was outstanding overhead and with his use of the body, and was always in front of his opponent on the lead. The boy can certainly beat similar sized opponents at that level and as he matures and gets bigger I believe he will be able to transfer this to AFL level. I am pretty upbeat about his future. Does not need to be another Buddy Franklin to be of value. If I try to think of someone I'd like him to emulate, perhaps could be a Paul Salmon type when he played forward.

Pringle I think there is promise in him.

But if he kicks as many as Salmon I will be delighted

  On 28/09/2011 at 13:59, pringle said:

FWIW I have seen Vickery play about 20 VFL games at least I reckon (in his 1st 2 seasons). And I've seen Fitzpatrick in about 4 or 5. At the same stage of development Fitzpatrick is miles ahead of Vickery. And I mean country miles. He moves better, marks better, does just about everything better... except kicking. Having said that, his set shots are not terrible anymore.

One of the games I saw early this year was a Casey 2nds game and he absolutely tore the opposition to shreds. Obviously this was Casey 2nds and it was against weaker opponents. But he positioned himself well, clunked every mark, was outstanding overhead and with his use of the body, and was always in front of his opponent on the lead. The boy can certainly beat similar sized opponents at that level and as he matures and gets bigger I believe he will be able to transfer this to AFL level. I am pretty upbeat about his future. Does not need to be another Buddy Franklin to be of value. If I try to think of someone I'd like him to emulate, perhaps could be a Paul Salmon type when he played forward.

I watched Vickery play U-18's many times and I can tell you he will be a beaut.

Just because he's arriving slowly says Nothing as a tall.

He'll be an excellent mobile ruck.

Fitzpatrick drafted 2009 suffering Chronic Fatigue. Has suffered some significant injuries and people want to delist him.

Cloke drafted 2004 has just arrived (7 years)

Dawes, Reid and Hawkins all drafted in 2006. After 5 years these guys just arriving.

Obviously the originator of this thread knows little about the challenge of being a tall key position and the time it takes to make it.

  On 01/10/2011 at 11:11, Harrisonrules said:

Fitzpatrick drafted 2009 suffering Chronic Fatigue. Has suffered some significant injuries and people want to delist him.

Cloke drafted 2004 has just arrived (7 years)

Dawes, Reid and Hawkins all drafted in 2006. After 5 years these guys just arriving.

Obviously the originator of this thread knows little about the challenge of being a tall key position and the time it takes to make it.

Some don't seem to realize - talks take time and realistically Fitz has had less than two full seeaons.

  On 01/10/2011 at 11:11, Harrisonrules said:

Fitzpatrick drafted 2009 suffering Chronic Fatigue. Has suffered some significant injuries and people want to delist him.

Cloke drafted 2004 has just arrived (7 years)

Dawes, Reid and Hawkins all drafted in 2006. After 5 years these guys just arriving.

Obviously the originator of this thread knows little about the challenge of being a tall key position and the time it takes to make it.

Cloke has 'just arrived'?? He's been a dominant force in the comp for several years now and played pretty decent senior footy even in his first year at Collingwood.

Fitzy has a long way to go to emulate those guys and the early signs are not overly great, I agree with the OP.

Let's face it, he was a speculative tall taken late in an average draft. It'll be a bonus if he makes it.