I've often been puzzled by the bagging Rivers gets from some on this forum. Some mea culpas are (over)due since Friday night's B&F result.

Anyone want to 'fess up to having no idea about how good this bloke has been?

I have been a great Jarrod Rivers fan. Great Reader of the game. One of the best marks in our team, but the sad reality is the game is athletically passing him by. He has always been a metre slow when the pressure is on, but has been able to cover it by his ability to read the game well, now it is becoming increasingly difficult for him to do this as the game becomes faster and teams require players not only to outrun opposition to get the ball but also be able to run out of the backline. He was always a medium tall but as we saw against Collingwood the tall forwards are getting taller and more athletic. He is okay against the modest teams but against the elite, like many of our players, lacks the size and athleticism that is necessary. Future is limited and I don't believe he will be around when we hit our straps.

Anyone want to 'fess up to having no idea about how good this bloke has been?

They'll just tell you that the people at the MFC got it horribly wrong ;-)

I don't believe we will hit our straps ever if we keep worrying about when we will hit our straps. Rivers had a damn good year and besides getting destroyed on QB'day he was good most of the year with a handfull of exceptional games. The thing is he's like Josh Gibson of Hawthorn in that he will be outsized by the biggest key forwards but he can take care of most others. His ball use this year was very good.

I'm of the opinion that Rivers is the best third man/loose defender in the AFL. Better than Nick Maxwell.

The issue is that Maxwell does a better job man-on-man than Rivers does.

I like Riv and he has really good strengths but also a glaring weakness. Third man up or even running to a contest with his man he is fantastic - spoils well. Put any opponent of strength on him, isolate him one on one and plonk it on top of his and his opponents head and he will get outmuscled every time. Doesnt seem to possess any body strength. I cannot fault his commitment to the ball or contest - it is this one weakness that shows up him occassionally.

Decision making when he has the ball and disposal efficiency are his weaknesses. Too often this year he took a fantastic contested mark in defence then turned the ball straight over. No doubt Neeld will have him working on that over summer.

I know many expect a Mea Culpa from moi ...and youll be waiting a long long while.

Context.

Hes done quite well thi syear but hes stil far from the magnificent many here would have him.

Theres two sides to Jared..thats Jared for al those that cant spell. , Two sides:

A reasonably accomplished spoiler and dowdy backman who does actually have great reading of the ball.

Conversely a poor exponent of disposal and thought proscess when ball in hand. Would have to amongst the dees best/worst turnover merchants.

A devout Dee and yep id reckon Red and Blue courses t hrough his veins.

Did he deserve his 2nd place ? Well obviously the judges thought so.

Now heres the irony...and the real quality of all this to take away. How many of those same said judges are either still with the club or in a position to judge next year ? Think about it.

Rightly or wrongly Rivers has benefited from being on the selectors "pet " list. For mine that Rivers wins second...or even Green (this year ) still manages 11th says so much more about how the club faired in 2010 than any player in isolaltion. Says a lot about what needs to change...and by all accounts is.

I wont be so mean to disallow Jared his 'deserts" ....but he wont win anything next year with an equivalent effort. What Jared was this year was arguably consistent. What he did bring to the game you can most likey rely upon to be there.

i will add that by anyones rule Moloney deserved his Award.

I'm of the opinion that Rivers is the best third man/loose defender in the AFL. Better than Nick Maxwell.

The issue is that Maxwell does a better job man-on-man than Rivers does.

The main problem for Rivers is the ball goes into our backline twice as often as the Pies.

Swap the players and then see how good maxwell is !

I'm of the opinion that Rivers is the best third man/loose defender in the AFL. Better than Nick Maxwell.

The issue is that Maxwell does a better job man-on-man than Rivers does.

How? Maxwell never has a man to play on!

he is a star, underrated and a leader

he is a star, underrated and a leader

a star ? nope ( a word too often bandied around) - solid this year ? yes.

underrated - I prefer divides - , he certainly divides this forum

a leader - not from what i have witnessed ( and see his interview post season with Wayne Carey to confirm his strengths as a leader)

Decision making when he has the ball and disposal efficiency are his weaknesses. Too often this year he took a fantastic contested mark in defence then turned the ball straight over. No doubt Neeld will have him working on that over summer.

No it's not. Did you watch us play this year. Rivers used the ball very well and would have a high efficiency. I think your thinking of Joel Macdonald.

he is a star, underrated and a leader

is that you Jared ?

Ah, your favourite topic BB59 !

Conversely a poor exponent of disposal and thought proscess when ball in hand. Would have to amongst the dees best/worst turnover merchants.

I don't have the facts at hand, but I would be interested to know the turnover stats on this as well as his disposal with ball, just to prove you wrong. B)

Did he deserve his 2nd place ? Well obviously the judges thought so.

Now heres the irony...and the real quality of all this to take away. How many of those same said judges are either still with the club or in a position to judge next year ? Think about it.

Hmmm. Let's...

Todd Viney

Josh Mahoney

Brian Royal

This is now two posts where you have now questioned the integrity of the MFC staff (your own club) who submitted their votes for Jared Rivers accordingly when warranted. I reckon that is very, very poor form on your behalf. I think it demonstrates your sheer lack of understanding regarding the importance of the different elements and the requirements of the players during games and significantly, the game itself. The coaches are at the coal face and know what is required from every player. You're implying they were favourable in voting for Rivers. That is pathetic, BB59. You have stooped to a new low.

Yet you haven't highlighted or questionned any other Melbourne player's allocated votes by the judges. Only the votes for Rivers. All is so evident in your opinion of Rivers.

Rivers' good season supports my argument earlier this year and as far back as 3 years ago on here, when I emphasised to you and all in sundry that a fit Jared Rivers would be among the first picked at Melbourne and a significant contributor for our backline.

But I know you'll just laugh it off, whilst you recall yourself wanting him traded off/delisted at the end of 2008 & 09.

The thing is, supporters like yourself, don't rate the important requirements of Key Defenders. Un-beknown to you, Rivers led the backline in the first half of 2011 (arguably all season), whilst Frawley came-to after his operation; slow start to the season, and Garland occassionally shined now and again. Many like to pinpoint the one game where he struggled to contain one of the best in the business in Travis Cloke - nevermind the sublime heavy delivery from the reigning premier's midfield thanks to their sheer quality and our poor midfield who kept turning it over time and again. Nevermind the games where he excelled in and his opponent hardly got a sniff.

Sometimes I wonder what game some supporters are actually watching. I could say the same thing, when some wonder why our forward structure is out-o-whack. Or why Shane Valenti should have been retained. Apologies, I digress.

Jared Rivers, congratulations on a good season and keeping fit, keep it up.

I wont be so mean to disallow Jared his 'deserts" ....but he wont win anything next year with an equivalent effort.

Time will tell.

I think his finish says more about those that don't consistently perform and finished lower than it says for Jared.

Jared is as Jared does.

He is an expert 3rd tall. But the fact that a 3rd tall/loose man is coming second in our B+F is a tad concerning...

My issue is with his leadership and his body language when we are struggling.

Well done to the bloke but he needs to work on a few areas still.

we were only discussing Jared...did you notice the threads title ?

Such temerity..to question whether the club is going well or otherwise.. get off your horse HT..honestly.. Thats a rogue argument at best..that all you can muster ??

Yes..I too wonder whtether we all watch the same games and whether we're actually prepared to see things as they are. Stats are next to useless unless qualified. Apparently an effective disposal is all but one in which youre pinged. Doesnt matter whether youve given it to someone flatfooted or only 15 m away and about to get corraled. Doesnt matter if the better option might have been to play on and make something of it. But dinky little safe kicks to nowhere are good ? Thats effective after all isnt it .

HT.. try looking at the game in view of they having no names and no reps..just watch what happens ..and what the ball does. . Jared is keen of eye regarding a spoil , but is constantly getting bested by quicker forwards. Hes just not as quick as he once was. Hes adept when he can come over a contest and punch. Occasionally he'll do well to intercept but often thats because hes lost his man and is foturnate in where the opposition actually kicked it.

Youre a JR man..Im not that that fussed.

Yep time will tell.

I think his finish says more about those that don't consistently perform and finished lower than it says for Jared.

Jared is as Jared does.

He is an expert 3rd tall. But the fact that a 3rd tall/loose man is coming second in our B+F is a tad concerning...

My issue is with his leadership and his body language when we are struggling.

Well done to the bloke but he needs to work on a few areas still.

Will be totally lost on many...well put.

(I know this worries you ..lol )

Didn't Matty Warnock finish third in our B&F a few years ago.

Jared had a good year but like all our senior players will need to continue to improve or younger players will pass him by.

Will be totally lost on many...well put.

rpfc's post isn't lost on me. I actually agree with the components of it re: lack of leadership when struggling, and working on some areas of his game, etc, - as I have all year. Nice try though BB59. But it has very little to do with my post in reply to your tripeful contribution and your implications of voting favouritism.

Nothing to do with essentially slagging the MFC's B&F and it's integrity and accusing them of 'looking after' Rivers in B&F voting. Pathetic in the extreme.

Occasionally he'll do well to intercept but often thats because hes lost his man and is foturnate in where the opposition actually kicked it.

And you're telling me to look at the game ! lol !

Gee, you're a funny ol' fellow.

I might call you Humphrey B(B59) Bear....

I might call you Humphrey B(B59) Bear....

hahaha, tickled my fancy that did

hahaha, tickled my fancy that did

DC you have not given me a laugh in 3 weeks.

Up your game.

You have got to get a lot harder.

We will never make the Gf with the way you are going!

Come on now.

You can call me whatever you like HT.. as if I care

Seems a littel odd for mine that in all of the predictions by posters here at DL i'm not aware of one that had Rivers in the top 5. Now whether youre particualrly for him or not youd think some would have him up there if he was that good all year. Not even the Rivers advocates had him high..go figure.

Only Royal is maintaining an active position in coaching . Viney is back to development., away from the coal face. Ive no problems with his fil in effort. Thats no even the point.

The day we cant question any thiing this club does is a sad day really. Its scrutiny that keeps things real and in check..

Do you require breathing aparatus up there.

Seems a littel odd for mine that in all of the predictions by posters here at DL i'm not aware of one that had Rivers in the top 5. Now whether youre particualrly for him or not youd think some would have him up there if he was that good all year. Not even the Rivers advocates had him high.

Maybe. I considered him for 5-10, but he missed a few games at one stage, and Doggo jogged my memory when I replied to his post when he highlighted the amount of games played. So that's probably why I marked him hard. I can't speak for others. That's beside the point in relation to the Bluey, unlike members of Demonland.

In hindsight it probably highlights just how good his football was this season having missed games !

Do you require breathing aparatus up there.

I'm fine thanks. I'd be ok in Arizona. Do you need more honey ?

I'm fine thanks. I'd be ok in Arizona. Do you need more honey ?

No, ........was Pooh that liked honey