I hope Davey is playing injured ...

He broke his leg last year. Maybe the consequences of that are more serious (even mentally) than what we might have thought.

Not excusing him, just wondering out loud. Perhaps he really is finished ...

12 months on and they will play finals. Probably won't do much, but Hird (as much as we hate to admit it) has got them back on the right track.

Not to mention a captain who leads from the front, and a few other seasoned performers.

Our biggest problem remains not the drafting or the kids, it's the lack of experienced heads and mature bodies to show the way and stand up when the going gets tough.

Good signs in that direction from Sylvia and Jones today - but then our other big issue is consistency.

Viney tells the lads to HARDEN UP !!

Harden Up !!

""Overall, I'm really disappointed with this, probably more so than the previous two weeks," Viney said after the match."" in reference to work rate and attack on the ball.

Viney tells the lads to HARDEN UP !!

Harden Up !!

""Overall, I'm really disappointed with this, probably more so than the previous two weeks," Viney said after the match."" in reference to work rate and attack on the ball.

It's this kind of thing that makes me frustrated that he doesn't want to coach. I know it's hard to tell if he would be good tactically from the couple of games he has coached, but his no-nonsense attitude is something that has been direly missed from coaching at the MFC for as long as i can remember.

If you watch his press conference he is seriously unhappy with the result, saying it's not good enough and he won't accept not being hard at it all day. Personally i thought we played pretty well, it was pretty line ball in the end a missed opportunity here and there from both sides.

Watching his presser really makes me want him to be our coach. It's a damn shame

Viney tells the lads to HARDEN UP !!

Harden Up !!

""Overall, I'm really disappointed with this, probably more so than the previous two weeks," Viney said after the match."" in reference to work rate and attack on the ball.

I'm pleased to see the coach not offering up excuses and telling it like it is, we supporters should start to realise that as well. It would be interesting to see what the difference in ages and games played today were so we can stop fooling ourselves that we are [censored] because we are young. Or is this weeks excuse the game plan? If it is I'd be interested to here from those that were saying our game plan was ok and it was just that we were too inexperienced to implement it.

We made a massive mistake in extending Bailey's contract last year and i reckon it was because it was too hard to look for another coach at the time. Jimmy was sick and no one else was prepared to accept that it was the wrong thing to do so they all went ahead with it.

Edited August 21, 201114 yr by RobbieF

Richmond are a better side than us right now...that is the fact.

And that's sad for us we started the re-build before them and there for should be well ahead. Sad day for us I think we finaly have to realize that we have a hell of a long wat to go. Jim talked about base camp, well there has been an avalanche and we are back to the bottom.

I love that our players just pick and choose when they want to play, when they want to put in and go hard. We played two good quarters and lost to a team below us on the ladder who destroyed us when the pressure was on.

Yeah Sylvia had a great game but isn't it sad that he was motivated by his own bruised ego and doesn't play like that every week. We have too few who do enough and too many players with serious mental inaptitude. No coach can fix the rotten culture of softness present in our leadership group. It breaks my heart but I have honestly never felt so low as a Melbourne supporter. Hope has rapidly diminished this season topped off by a horrible second half of the season.

It all comes down to their attitude (or utter lack there of).....

The misery is that I don't think Richmond are actually better than us, but they played like they wanted it more and it mattered more. So they were successful, today.

There seems to be a level of complete contentment within the ranks that this, what we are seeing, is good enough and we can be what we want, when we want to be it. The rub is that this team will continue to be beaten by teams, above and below it, which on any given day, that will actually show more heart, fierceness, determination etc. Maybe our guys just think it will happen without the hard work.

Unfortunately that attitude should be whipped out of them (new coach?) because it is completely heartbreaking to watch players we support, not give the contest the respect it deserves.

Edited August 21, 201114 yr by QueenC
I hope that post makes sense!!!

It all comes down to their attitude (or utter lack there of).....

The misery is that I don't think Richmond are actually better than us, but they played like they wanted it more and it mattered more. So they were successful, today.

In a nutshell Queen C. Our endeavour in the first quarter and last quarter.

There seems to be a level of complete contentment within the ranks that this, what we are seeing, is good enough and we can be what we want, when we want to be it. The rub is that this team will continue to be beaten by teams, above and below it, which on any given day, that will actually show more heart, fierceness, determination etc. Maybe our guys just think it will happen without the hard work.

I am not sure about the level of contentment. Our decision making, foot and hand skills need to improve signifcantly. We crucified alot of our good work with sloppy ball use. I thought the team did well to come back into the game after we looked like we were floundering.

Unfortunately that attitude should be whipped out of them (new coach?) because it is completely heartbreaking to watch players we support, not give the contest the respect it deserves.

One thing I am sure about is that Green and Davey are out of the leadership group and need to justify their spots next season. For side that has a total of 1600 games experience coming into this week, the contribution of those two is now an embarrassment. Not only is Davey not winning ball, he is taking cheap, nasy and immature shots at the opposition to the detriment of the team

So my thoughts were somewhat comprehensible......

I thought the team did well to come back into the game after we looked like we were floundering.

True on that Rhino, we did seem to fight a little more, but it still wasn't enough....

One thing I am sure about is that Green and Davey are out of the leadership group and need to justify their spots next season. For side that has a total of 1600 games experience coming into this week, the contribution of those two is now an embarrassment. Not only is Davey not winning ball, he is taking cheap, nasty and immature shots at the opposition to the detriment of the team

Green really didn't get the opportunity to screw up as badly this week given being the sub and all, but Davey has been utterly atrocious. There hasn't been a lot going on for him for a while and leadership is not one of his capabilities, but neither is winning the ball, making a (legal & sporting) contest or supporting the team, all of which non-leaders can and should do. As for Green, I have more time for, but the year is a disaster and it has proven that he is not a captain, just the guy with the experience. I would be happy for him to go back to last years version, it was far superior and rather needed in the current climate.

Edited August 21, 201114 yr by QueenC

So my thoughts were somewhat comprehensible......

True on that Rhino, we did seem to fight a little more, but it still wasn't enough....

Green really didn't get the opportunity to screw up as badly this week given being the sub and all, but Davey has been utterly atrocious. There hasn't been a lot going on for him for a while and leadership is not one of his capabilities, but neither is winning the ball, making a (legal & sporting) contest or supporting the team, all of which non-leaders can and should do. As for Green, I have more time for, but the year is a disaster and it has proven that he is not a captain, just the guy with the experience. I would be happy for him to go back to last years version, it was far superior and rather needed in the current climate.

Agree Queen C.

We played good football in the 3rd quarter and muddied around for 3 qtrs and still lost by 7 points. There are both positives and negatives about that.

The less said about Davey the better. Has never been a leader, should never have been appointed as a leader and is too immature and selfish not to be accountable. For the all the criticism Green gets (and some of the more thoughtful pieces has been warranted), Davey gets off scott free. One of the worst exhibitions of unaccountable and irresponsible football by a senior player.

Green is burning up credits at a fast rate. His season as a leader and a player has been a disaster. He has been terrible in front of goal when it has counted. One of the most overrated set shot kicks prior to this year. Every time he had it yesterday, it was toss a coin time. His 2nd failed shots in the last, hurt us badly when a Captain needs to stand up. He came offthe sub bench as an impact player and had little.

I'm wondering if we would have won it if Bailey was still in the box.

It's this kind of thing that makes me frustrated that he doesn't want to coach. I know it's hard to tell if he would be good tactically from the couple of games he has coached, but his no-nonsense attitude is something that has been direly missed from coaching at the MFC for as long as i can remember.

If you watch his press conference he is seriously unhappy with the result, saying it's not good enough and he won't accept not being hard at it all day. Personally i thought we played pretty well, it was pretty line ball in the end a missed opportunity here and there from both sides.

Watching his presser really makes me want him to be our coach. It's a damn shame

Know what you mean, but I think the changes made at half-time that brought us back into the game already puts him way ahead of anything we saw from DB tactically.

And that's sad for us we started the re-build before them and there for should be well ahead. Sad day for us I think we finaly have to realize that we have a hell of a long wat to go. Jim talked about base camp, well there has been an avalanche and we are back to the bottom.

One of the dangers of a complete rebuild and letting the football and recruiting dept live in a comfortable, cosy , unaccountable place for 4 years is that you don't know if you have the goods or not for 4+ years.

Results to date don't indicate success.

ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT

Great title!

Great title!

No to mention the first verse of "Mr Wendal" being eerily appropriate:

Here, have a dollar,

in fact nah brotherman here, have two

Two dollars means a snack for me,

but it means a big deal to you

Be strong, serve God only,

know that if you do, beautiful heaven awaits

That's the poem I wrote for the first time

I saw a man with no clothes, no money, no plate

F@#$K it...i hate losing to that rabble club, i really do.

It really hurts.

That makes two of us!

One of the dangers of a complete rebuild and letting the football and recruiting dept live in a comfortable, cosy , unaccountable place for 4 years is that you don't know if you have the goods or not for 4+ years.

Results to date don't indicate success.

From my view point we lost yesterday because of a couple of senior players who have not been up to it all year ( Green and Davey )

And a couple of kids who ran out of steam in the last quarter.

This year we need to recruit at least one hard experinced forward IMO.

Use our first round pick it will be a reasonably low one.

Easier said than done I know, please no more skinny 17 year olds who will not be ready till 2015.

(Most of this written last night so pls excuse the time context)...

Junk time of the season for me. Personally i'm not judging anyone too harshly or giving glowing assessments, nor do i see today's effort, as an indication or representation of this year's 'overall' performance.

For me, the season finished last week in terms of being in the mix and true quality of opposition.

As RR said, i feel it's the quality of our more experienced players (100+ gamers) where they just aren't quite able to maintain the level needed over a long enough period during the match that lets us down. There are rare exceptions, like Sylvia playing an A grade game this week.

But lets face it, we just don't have enough quality experienced (100+ gamers) in general in most games to make a significant difference when up against quality opposition. On average about six 100+ gamers this year versus around 11 - 14 who've played less than 50 games (ie., half the team or more consist of rookies every week). Too hard to cover this many rookies week in and week out. And it comes home to roost eventually.

However, imo some of those seniors are just that split second off the money in terms of finishing off their early work (or the early good finishing work of certain others below them experience wise).

By that, i mean just a split second too slow with their reaction times/disposal.

Just a split second too slow in their decision making under pressure.

Occasional choice making under pressure that just doesn't work in our favour or a poor percentage option when not under full on or extreme pressure.

Ineffective ball use by foot, in both general field play and when bringing the ball inside 50, that allows the opposition back into the play and or allows them to force another stoppage or turn over by our inability to hit up a target on the lead, or at least place it to his advantage. We do this very well at times, and when we do it works out well. Just not able to keep doing it for long enough or when under increased pressure when the heat turns up.

Also it's very hard to cover 2 or 3 players who are struggling to 'find' form when the opposition is mostly on, regardless of who you're playing (Port Power excluded at this point lol). I would place in this field Jamar and Davey at present. I'd rather play younger more inexperienced players to get games into them, like Gawn and Jetta (other... Nicho maybe) for the last 2 rounds. Just a wish.

Also, I personally don't feel Jamar has been at his best (even prior to yesterday's match) since his injury. Since then i've always felt we look and perform better with Martin in the middle. Resting Martin down forward and Jamar in the middle more often (like we did yesterday) is presently a huge tactical error.

Sure his body work (Jamar's) is still quite good and he's a big unit to move, and he's needed there on occasions to give Martin a rest. But Martin offers the mobility and capability to get to the contest and provide a little run once the ball hits the turf in the middle as well as the odd off the ground clearance. He also taps a little more to 'our' advantage. Jamar gets his share of tap outs also, but less to our advantage IMO and is a liability at this point once the ball hits the turf (which obviously is most of the time). I'm not saying Jamar isn't up to this level once he's fully fit and that he wont get back to his best, but he's no where near his best at present and we're losing the middle contests more often when he's in there. Martin for me until Jamar's form has returned. He might need further rest and work on his knee. I'm just guessing and have no idea on this of course.

Then there's the bottom end, say bottom 4 - 6 least experienced players that just don't have the ability/tank/work ethic yet to produce the intensity for more than about 2 - 3 quarters when asked and as the heat goes up a notch at various stages of a game. To be expected given where they're at in their development.

I'm afraid this is just where we're at atm. Albeit there's certain aspects to the 'effort' and defensive game (up forward) that have let us down big time this year imo. In addition we go missing in stoppage clearances and middle clearances for just long enough to allow the opponent back in again in many matches, or to rip it away from us when against the top teams who generally monster us for longer here.

This problem may not just rest with the players and their experience/development/ability/talent etc either. Possibly poor management, or just a particular game style they've learned over the pre season and previous years that's taken them down the wrong path versus where the leading opposition teams are at.

It'll take a super coach, a shoring up and settling of the off field, at least 2 more pre-seasons and some excellent drafting/trades to fill a few gaping holes, if we're to build this team into a hard nosed group with a thirst and hunger for success.

The one major positive i take from this evening and last week, is that we were able to lift our intensity in the 3rd quarter and get ourselves back into the game (this week) or at least compete with a neutral result rather than a complete 2nd half blow out (last week).

but in the end the better teams will continue to prey on our weaknesses, and our weak links, week after week, until we resolve them (through trades/drafts and/or improve them with a few more pre seasons, decent coach/development etc).

The basis of a very solid team is there IF we get some key decisions right from here and we learn from our mistakes this year both on and off the field.

The one thing i'd wish for next year, is this team and club becoming much more professional week to week, this includes effort and intensity, no matter who or where we're playing and who (or who isn't) in the team.

We need to start building some respect, amongst ourselves, and our opposition. And definitely no more 'Amateur Hour' matches (halfs or quarters) where we just roll over!

Hopefully this new work ethic and building of some respect begins as soon as the new coach and team is appointed.

Edited August 22, 201114 yr by Rusty Nails

A tale of two clubs - in the end it was a close result - and MFC recognise that's just not good enough and we need to make big changes. RFC do appear to be making some progress with Gale, Cameron and Hardwick. Their supporters around us thought so yesterday - so bereft of any success, it seemed like they'd summitted Everest when really beating us currently is like summitting Mt.Waverley.

Everyone seems to be ignoring it from yesterday but in a game lost by 7 points

A certain Mr. Miller with 3 goals seems to have rubbed our noses in it!

Yeah, i understand that Martin has the IQ of a potato and that we wanted to draft high character guys, but looks like we really dropped the ball on this one.

Absolutely, no Riff Raff for Melbourne, we'll take the good character boy who wants to go and achieve, every time. Bugger the loyal Lads types every time.

I know who I'd want beside me in the trenches.

Everyone seems to be ignoring it from yesterday but in a game lost by 7 points

A certain Mr. Miller with 3 goals seems to have rubbed our noses in it!

Not really. He got 3 soft goals from a free and 2 uncontested chest marks, when Joel Mac went wandering and left him alone after several MFC turnovers. When he played tight Brad was unsighted.

Not really. He got 3 soft goals from a free and 2 uncontested chest marks, when Joel Mac went wandering and left him alone after several MFC turnovers. When he played tight Brad was unsighted.

Does not alter the fact Redleg he kicked 3 goals.

That is 2 more than Green Watts and Petterd and 3 more than Davey

If he is a hack where does that leave the above?

PS I will excuse Watts it was a poor game after a fairly good year.

He broke his leg last year. Maybe the consequences of that are more serious (even mentally) than what we might have thought.

Not excusing him, just wondering out loud. Perhaps he really is finished ...

I'm glad you aren't excusing him bing, because while there can be reasons for poor form, a poor attitude is inexcusable.

Not really. He got 3 soft goals from a free and 2 uncontested chest marks, when Joel Mac went wandering and left him alone after several MFC turnovers. When he played tight Brad was unsighted.

It wasn't a good day for Joel Mac - cannot question his commitment but he must be staring down the barrel.