On 26/07/2011 at 07:37, rpfc said:

I didn't know you were, BB...

I just mean the delaying of negotiations, not any apparent falsities in what they have said. Perhaps a poor choice of words.

Judd put three clubs through something rivalling Best In Show without the laughs...

Freudian

  On 26/07/2011 at 07:36, RobbieF said:

Without any new, or supposedly new information; has this thread lost its way?

No we have something new .... Toms father was seen at McDonalds in Dandenong today then later in Dandenong Mall at Myer. Allegedly this is a sign that he is confirming both have outlets in Greater Western Sydney.

  On 26/07/2011 at 07:51, belzebub59 said:

Freudian

It could have been a better constructed sentence but you are the one that is inferring I also called the Scully/Velocity actions a charade.

I referred to Judd's nonsense as a facade and you equated the two.

So, no, I don't think this is a charade, I think this is a kid who has a big decision to make and he will make it when he is good and ready.

We sign contracts too early anyway. Bruce was signed up in March of 07 for 08-10 on a ridiculous contract. I wonder if the same contract would have been put in front of him in September 07...

I doubt it.

That's a bit of a tangent, but with FA, get used to contracts being signed very, very late.

In fact, they might even make the first two weeks of October - Free Agent Signing Window or something and then all players (8+ and 10+ years service and coming out of contract) will wait till then to sign.

Get used to it, peeps.

  On 26/07/2011 at 08:33, rpfc said:

It could have been a better constructed sentence but you are the one that is inferring I also called the Scully/Velocity actions a charade.

I referred to Judd's nonsense as a facade and you equated the two.

rpfc said :"BTW - the charade that Judd put us, the Pies, and the Bombers through was far worse than what Scully/Velocity are doing with us."

rpfc..its one sentence ands its construct by its nature compares one to the other. Its a reasonable extrapolation, even if not your intent. Hence the question.

you can calm down now

  On 26/07/2011 at 09:03, belzebub59 said:

rpfc said :"BTW - the charade that Judd put us, the Pies, and the Bombers through was far worse than what Scully/Velocity are doing with us."

rpfc..its one sentence ands its construct by its nature compares one to the other. Its a reasonable extrapolation, even if not your intent. Hence the question.

you can calm down now

I thought I was calm...

Tone is very hard to read in text I will say...

I am curious about people's opinion of late signing of contracts and the introduction of free agency...

I see it happening more - with delayed talks.

Nightmarish from a planning POV, but probably the best career decision ie. see what is out there in terms of concrete offers.

American sports have Free Agency windows of sorts (a couple of weeks to sign up/make a decision), is that where we are headed?

  On 26/07/2011 at 08:33, rpfc said:

So, no, I don't think this is a charade, I think this is a kid who has a big decision to make and he will make it when he is good and ready.

+1

I just cant see why the press conference if it was a charade. Tom just would not do that. No player agent in their right mind would do that either .... send their client out there to be slaughtered ... irrespective of the slaughter date.

  On 26/07/2011 at 11:15, rpfc said:

I thought I was calm...

Tone is very hard to read in text I will say...

I am curious about people's opinion of late signing of contracts and the introduction of free agency...

I see it happening more - with delayed talks.

Nightmarish from a planning POV, but probably the best career decision ie. see what is out there in terms of concrete offers.

American sports have Free Agency windows of sorts (a couple of weeks to sign up/make a decision), is that where we are headed?

I don't see free agency hurting us in the short term, long term maybe, but initially we will have a young side with a fair amount of spare cash, according to Cam Schwab and we may be the hunter not the hunted. Most of the top sides will have their hands full keeping what they have and they will most probably be at capacity in terms of salary cap.

We can use the early stages of FA to snare a top liner to compliment our young side and maybe get the A grader we so desperately need. I say that because there seems to be this thing about Melbourne that precludes us from luring the big names.

one of these days i'm going to logon to demonland and see a thread that says 'Scully signs' or 'Scully's gone'

whatever it is I pray it comes soon

  On 26/07/2011 at 13:34, Curry & Beer said:

one of these days i'm going to logon to demonland and see a thread that says 'Scully signs' or 'Scully's gone'

whatever it is I pray it comes soon

You have approximately 8 weeks to wait. Time will fly in we make the finals.

  On 26/07/2011 at 13:34, Curry & Beer said:

one of these days i'm going to logon to demonland and see a thread that says 'Scully signs' or 'Scully's gone'

whatever it is I pray it comes soon

They have this year and next year to poach players I just pray we don't have to go through this with someone else again. Trenners is outta contract next year!!!!! 2009 draft picks 1 and 2 reunited at GWS!!

I haven't added to this debate but with Scullys knee problems and Doc Larkin coming out and saying this knee injury will be with him for his entire career, I just cant see why GWS are talking a million a year for a kid with a sh!t load of potential but doubts about a dodgy knee. After all they are going to get the most talented kids in the land, why target another talented KID. Surely there is something wrong here.

Don't get me wrong I love the idea of Scully being a Dee for life, but if he is going to be like Cooney, 3-4 weeks off 1 on, I'm just not sure I'd want the MFC to throw big bucks at him. Not to mention that that will likely get other players backs up that are on a 1/4 the money yet as good as him.

Just don't know what I want to hear at the seasons end now, before the re-injuring of the knee I was a clear 'Scully to stay' now I just don't know. A couple of kids without the knee queries may just be a better result.. Sad really I feel for Tom big time.

  On 26/07/2011 at 13:34, Curry & Beer said:

one of these days i'm going to logon to demonland and see a thread that says 'Scully signs' or 'Scully's gone'whatever it is I pray it comes soon

+1, I'm still firmly expecting he will stay with us, but I wish with all my being that this bloody season would just end so we can all get back to worrying about normal things such as coaches, new draftees etc, instead of worrying why TS wasn't singing the song with as much gusto as the rest of them.

  On 26/07/2011 at 14:15, Deemort said:

T

I haven't added to this debate but with Scullys knee problems and Doc Larkin coming out and saying this knee injury will be with him for his entire career, I just cant see why GWS are talking a million a year for a kid with a sh!t load of potential but doubts about a dodgy knee. After all they are going to get the most talented kids in the land, why target another talented KID. Surely there is something wrong here.

Don't get me wrong I love the idea of Scully being a Dee for life, but if he is going to be like Cooney, 3-4 weeks off 1 on, I'm just not sure I'd want the MFC to throw big bucks at him. Not to mention that that will likely get other players backs up that are on a 1/4 the money yet as good as him.

It's been some time since I contributed to the Scully speculation so to avoid being attacked for being un-Melbourne I want to add something. I mean, how can I respect myself as a declared Demon if I am not adding to this thread?

If his knee is as problematic as Larkins suggests I too have doubts about how hard we go after him. This could be a case of a career cut unnaturally short.

I reckon one of the end of season things Tom has to consider is getting himself an independent medical analysis and prognosis for his troublesome knee. If it is something that can be fixed then it is not relevant. But if, as Larkins suggests, it is something that must be "managed" for the rest of his career then the temptation may be to take the money and run.

In brief, if the knee is seen as long term dodgy, Tom may be more likely to head to Sydney. Make hay while the sun shines and all that.

In that case we probably can't lose - we either keep the kid and demonstrate we can hold on to top line players when we want to, or we lose a bloke who may be just an intermittent, fleeting star over four or five seasons and pick up a couple of draft picks and open up some cap space.

But then I think, what if one of those fleeting star moments was the 2013 GF?

  On 26/07/2011 at 23:33, Kento80 said:

+1, I'm still firmly expecting he will stay with us, but I wish with all my being that this bloody season would just end so we can all get back to worrying about normal things such as coaches, new draftees etc, instead of worrying why TS wasn't singing the song with as much gusto as the rest of them.

I now think he needs to go.

The financial model due to GWS puts this issue into new territory. Nothing like this has happened in prior years. If he stays legitimately, he will have sacrificed 100's of thousands of $'s per year. Absolutelt unrealistic to expect this from anyone. Thus if we match the deal, it will have a huge effect on the rest of a terrifc young playing group.

They will eventually start looking at their own bank balances etc and compare - its human nature.

In summary, we can't afford him so lets all move on . He should do the same and cut the crap about waiting etc.

Screwed again by Andrew Demetriou not thining this through

  On 27/07/2011 at 00:42, Demon17 said:

I now think he needs to go.

The financial model due to GWS puts this issue into new territory. Nothing like this has happened in prior years. If he stays legitimately, he will have sacrificed 100's of thousands of $'s per year. Absolutelt unrealistic to expect this from anyone. Thus if we match the deal, it will have a huge effect on the rest of a terrifc young playing group.

They will eventually start looking at their own bank balances etc and compare - its human nature.

In summary, we can't afford him so lets all move on . He should do the same and cut the crap about waiting etc.

Screwed again by Andrew Demetriou not thining this through

The business about Scully being paid so much more than other kids if he stays doesn't worry me whatsoever. In Scully, I see a player who can potentially be the best in the league, it's as simple as that. In Trengove, I see a player who can potentially be one of the better players in the league, but not "the best". In simple terms, Scully could be number 1 in Sheehan's top 50, where Trengove might make the top 10.

If all our kids reach their potential, Scully will be a long way better than anyone on our list, and therefore should be paid accordingly.

I'm sure the contract that he will be offered by Melbourne will be an attractive proposition, without slitting our own throats. But, I can also imagine that the next contract would be a cracker.

  On 27/07/2011 at 00:42, Demon17 said:

I now think he needs to go.

The financial model due to GWS puts this issue into new territory. Nothing like this has happened in prior years. If he stays legitimately, he will have sacrificed 100's of thousands of $'s per year. Absolutelt unrealistic to expect this from anyone. Thus if we match the deal, it will have a huge effect on the rest of a terrifc young playing group.

They will eventually start looking at their own bank balances etc and compare - its human nature.

In summary, we can't afford him so lets all move on . He should do the same and cut the crap about waiting etc.

Screwed again by Andrew Demetriou not thining this through

There is debate as to what Tom is worth and the argument of paying on potential but I am not sure where this argument comes from that we cant afford him and it will jeopardise our player payments going forward.

The last player out of contract last year before the draft was Cameron Bruce - whilst he may have been offered a reduced contract - his amount must have been around 400-500K per year - we did not go and recruit anyone on a similar pay scale so there in itself is a big chunk of money freed up. We have been paying 92.5% of the cap and we have heavily front loaded contracts to get us over the 92.5% cap minimum. If the reputed offer from the MFC is between 5-600K per year then I dont see it as creating problems going forward.

The argument as to whether he should be one of the highest paid players at our club is another matter again.

  On 27/07/2011 at 00:42, Demon17 said:

I now think he needs to go.

The financial model due to GWS puts this issue into new territory. Nothing like this has happened in prior years. If he stays legitimately, he will have sacrificed 100's of thousands of $'s per year. Absolutelt unrealistic to expect this from anyone. Thus if we match the deal, it will have a huge effect on the rest of a terrifc young playing group.

They will eventually start looking at their own bank balances etc and compare - its human nature.

In summary, we can't afford him so lets all move on . He should do the same and cut the crap about waiting etc.

Screwed again by Andrew Demetriou not thining this through

All of this talk about Scully holding the club to ransom (not in your case Demon17) and what we can and cannot afford is in my opinion, wasted words... the club will only offer what they think he is worth and what they can afford after taking into consideration all other factors such as Sylvia's contract issues and the impact on the rest of the playing group (I for one trust them to have been gauging the feeling within the playing group, particularly after the Junior debacle).

  On 27/07/2011 at 01:14, hardtack said:

All of this talk about Scully holding the club to ransom (not in your case Demon17) and what we can and cannot afford is in my opinion, wasted words... the club will only offer what they think he is worth and what they can afford after taking into consideration all other factors such as Sylvia's contract issues and the impact on the rest of the playing group (I for one trust them to have been gauging the feeling within the playing group, particularly after the Junior debacle).

Fully agree Hardtack, its just that the GWS model offers such a quantum of difference never seen before that we cannot envisage the impact on the team if he stays, and we expect him to forgoe an offer that would be ridiculous is too much to expect

  On 27/07/2011 at 01:19, Demon17 said:

Fully agree Hardtack, its just that the GWS model offers such a quantum of difference never seen before that we cannot envisage the impact on the team if he stays, and we expect him to forgoe an offer that would be ridiculous is too much to expect

I feel that if he does choose to stay with the club and forgo a much larger play packet, then the feeling in the whole club will be one of elation and I am certain that the playing group will be buoyed by the fact that he would rather find success with them than go elsewhere for dollars. If this happens, I think we will see a sharp upturn in our fortunes next season.

  On 27/07/2011 at 01:19, Demon17 said:

its just that the GWS model offers such a quantum of difference

With all due respect this is a myth. Its not GWS model offers such a quantum of difference its a short term premium that has been designed to attract premium players & assist them in paying 55 players.

GWS must also make very, very sensible list management decision, their "premium" has a time limit.

GWS are allegedly factoring in the "blue sky" ... all club do it with young kids.

I have spent the last few months reading all these posts regarding Tom Scully and in all honesty the most pathetic thing about the scenario is not the journalists who are acting on rumour and the Ablett precedence last season. No it is the people on Demonland who are responding to every story, assessing all of Toms action through glasses tinted by their own will he or wont he stay view. It seriously is like a pack of schoolkids or teenage girls in turmoil after breaking up with their childhood sweetheart (this was never more evident then when I read the CRAP on this site after Brad Green appeared on the couch - What an over reaction)

Nothing has changed either Tom stays or goes. There is nothing we can do about it, I am a demon supporter who lives in WA and have onlhy briefly spoken with Scully so can not judge him on that. I see him as a level headed 19/20 year old who all assess all options before making the decision that is right for him. That decision and this is just my opinion will not be based solely on the financial package being offered by GWS, the benefits of media and outside endorsement in Victoria will also be taken into account.

I want Tom to stay it means so much to the current crop of players to stay together through the next decade, but as we have seen with the Geelong group from the early part of the decade there will be casualties along the way. Maloney, Sprigg and Rahilly all had a place in the Cats best twenty two 2 to 3 years before they really started hitting their straps but all missed out on September success. The same will happen with us who those players will be I do not know but there will be surprises along the way.

Lets as Demon supporters remember Tom is not bigger than the club and if he goes than accept it, life goes on next year we will again enter a season anticipating improvement and hope for the best for everybody who wears the red and the blue, I love this club and I have enjoyed the development since Bails stepped in, yes I think we have not leaped forward the way we expected after last season but we are not a club over burdened by a large number of pending retirements and trust me the good times will come, Maybe my expectations are lower than others for this season (although the big losses are concerning). In closing stay on board and forget about the Scully scenario it will end as it ends and when all the dust settles we along with the club will still be here with a future and hopefully he is part of it

  On 27/07/2011 at 02:11, Pennant St Dee said:

I have spent the last few months reading all these posts regarding Tom Scully and in all honesty the most pathetic thing about the scenario is not the journalists who are acting on rumour and the Ablett precedence last season. No it is the people on Demonland who are responding to every story, assessing all of Toms action through glasses tinted by their own will he or wont he stay view. It seriously is like a pack of schoolkids or teenage girls in turmoil after breaking up with their childhood sweetheart (this was never more evident then when I read the CRAP on this site after Brad Green appeared on the couch - What an over reaction)

This probably isn't the best wat to ingratiate yourself...

Welcome to the playground.

  On 27/07/2011 at 00:42, Demon17 said:

I now think he needs to go.

The financial model due to GWS puts this issue into new territory. Nothing like this has happened in prior years. If he stays legitimately, he will have sacrificed 100's of thousands of $'s per year. Absolutelt unrealistic to expect this from anyone. Thus if we match the deal, it will have a huge effect on the rest of a terrifc young playing group.

They will eventually start looking at their own bank balances etc and compare - its human nature.

In summary, we can't afford him so lets all move on . He should do the same and cut the crap about waiting etc.

Screwed again by Andrew Demetriou not thining this through

Understand all of that except why he 'needs' to go?

If he stays he will stay on far less than the offer from GWS and it will be a massive philip for the club.

Will the effect be that all the players ask for more?

Or will the effect be that the players decide that this club is going places with a player like Tom, and they will accept less?

  On 27/07/2011 at 02:29, rpfc said:

This probably isn't the best wat to ingratiate yourself...

Welcome to the playground.

You couldn't help yourself could you? Kinda sad its a "playground" ... ahhh well.

Welcome Pennant-St-Dee

My best friend is very involved in the club and told me that Tom truthfully hasn't even heard the offer from GWS nor has he spoken with Melbourne about an offer. Suggested that whilst the offers have been made to the media that an actual offer has never been discussed by either party with Tom. FWIW he thinks Tom will stay.

Take it with a grain of salt

  On 27/07/2011 at 02:46, Demon Land 7 said:

My best friend is very involved in the club and told me that Tom truthfully hasn't even heard the offer from GWS nor has he spoken with Melbourne about an offer. Suggested that whilst the offers have been made to the media that an actual offer has never been discussed by either party with Tom. FWIW he thinks Tom will stay.

Take it with a grain of salt

I just find that impossible to believe. How can we believe whilst the footy world discusses this every day, Scully himself has no idea what contracts are on the table by GWS and Melbourne.

If this is what he hears, I smell soemthing dodgy.