Trade Bait - Here We Go

[Guest hangon007]

Unless we can be sure that what we receive for Dunn, Bate, Warnock and Morton is going to improve things for us on the field next year or is necessary in a financial sense in terms of keeping the overall list structure right ,I don't think I would be getting to hasty here. Both Bate & Dunn on their day have put in some respectful performances ( I'll acknowledge some may say not enough), but they both are a decent height and are both matured bodies.

So at worst they add depth to a list somewhat short of the taller forward commodity and at best have previously shown some level of capability. As we are waiting for Cook, Fitzpatrick & Co to arrive, I wouldn't be leaving ourselves short and making it harder than it already is if those two young blokes get injured, don't come on or are slow to come on for some reason. Maybe a year to early to be considering trading these two.

Matty Warnock is somewhat in the same boat in terms of adding depth. Being able to play on Gorillas up back is also a reasonably hard commodity to find. A couple of times this year in the absence of Garland,( Tippett comes to mind) I felt he stepped up to the plate, but he would seem to be in a stronger bargaining position than the other two if he is uncontracted unless of course he wants to end up at a club other than GWS.

The Morton issue however is far more complex one for me. Considering p.ssing of a tall No.4 draft pick after such a short time is a big call and as a previous poster suggested, getting something like pick 40 in return is a real bend over. This would suggest a reasonable recruiting stuff up for mine if it were to happen. I notice there is also some suggestion about his brother at Richmond. Don't quite know what to make of all this. I wonder if there are games being played by several parties here but I suppose it's the time of the year this stuff all starts.

Nice post. Hit the nail on the head.

[Guest hangon007]

Yeah, pretty much the most obvious point in the whole discussion.

As to moving forward 6 spots, it could be the difference between getting Jamie Bennell or Dan Hanneberry (or 10 picks would have got us Jack Redden, who we really wanted). West Coast wanted Bennell and we just pipped them to get him.

Every year after the draft, teams rue the fact that a certain player was snatched a pick or 2 earlier.

Moving up a few spots can be very beneficial, if your scouts have done their job well.

oh ... the value of hindsight. Different drafts different strategies.

I too can look a genius on Sunday if I could pick Saturday nights tattslotto numbers then ... I would get 6 every week. But sadly I cant.

[Guest hangon007]

That doesn't mean they cannot be traded...

Nope you are right doesn't mean they cant be traded ... just a little more complicated than many around here want to make it.

Also sets a bad precedent ... but thats just my opinion. I much prefer to tell players time to get your head down bum up and get your spot back in our side & stay there. You honour your side of the deal I will honour mine.

[furious d 472]

As per above Warnock trade ... you are not really gaining anything of value in this draft.

So it not a win-win ... its far more like a loss for us in this draft.

Why are you so sure this is a weak or shallow draft? I've heard conflicting reports but mostly that it's too early to tell. Not having a dig, just curious.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

oh ... the value of hindsight. Different drafts different strategies.

I too can look a genius on Sunday if I could pick Saturday nights tattslotto numbers then ... I would get 6 every week. But sadly I cant.

That's not the point at all, but even when spoonfed you struggle.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

either way you get nothing ... good trading. Sadly in this draft you should do you best to keep him ...

AOB and others are right. If the player wants to go, and it remains to be seen if any of the names discussed do, then you may as well get something.

In our situation with spots at a premium upgraded picks may be the way to go rather than a speculative late pick that we probably can't use anyway.

[Guest hangon007]

Why are you so sure this is a weak or shallow draft? I've heard conflicting reports but mostly that it's too early to tell. Not having a dig, just curious.

All account this is a "Blackjack draft" its top 21ish or bust. Think next year shapes up far deeper.

So its not weak ... but from all accounts it is shallow & a real gambling mans draft. Just dont think we need to gamble in this draft.

[old55 23,709]

All account this is a "Blackjack draft" its top 21ish or bust. Think next year shapes up far deeper.

So its not weak ... but from all accounts it is shallow & a real gambling mans draft. Just dont think we need to gamble in this draft.

We do have to make at least 3 spots on the list available, that means someone has go, and pick upgrades for them are better than nothing.

If you want to keep Warnock, Dunn and Bate which 3 are you letting go and for what?

[Guest Artie Bucco]

We do have to make at least 3 spots on the list available, that means someone has go, and pick upgrades for them are better than nothing.

If you want to keep Warnock, Dunn and Bate which 3 are you letting go and for what?

He hasn't thought that far.

[drdrake 3,187]

If you were Matt Warnock would you want to stay on a list for depth or would you want to go to a club that you have a very good chance of playing weekly?

Our depth for key tall defenders will be McDonald and Davis.

Same goes with Maric, we need a small forward and he can't get a game, he will be looking at his options at years end. The club may have no choice to trade both Warnock and Maric or we me get the same as we got for Bruce.

[beelzebub 23,383]

I think we went down the weak /shallow draft debate last year and the reality is the only certainty is that its COMPROMISED. How loaded in GWS's favour will depend on what shenanagans everyone gets up to in trade week and this encompasses the on-trading etc of priority picks currently held by the Great Whatevers.

A reasonable rule of thumb for some i feel is whatever draft pick youd think youd like to imagine a player is worth in the various scenario modelling ...add about 10-15 . i.e If you think Player X worthy of a say late 2nd.....make it a mid 3rd and so on. Many make the ( somewhat understandandable) mistake of valuing a player in trade at where you think WE have them where in reality you will most likely get what teh OTHER team thinks is warranted. There are exceptions of course but many a players tyres are pumped prior to trading only to be deflated at the table !!

Having said that Id put

Morton at a late 1st round to mid 2nd

Bate a late 2nd to mid 3rd

Warnock...take what you can get

Martin if they came looking ought to worth similar to Morton, on the basis ready made improving rucks arent thick on the ground

just my views

[old dee 23,872]

Here is one to consider.

DAVEY.

2010 He had a good first half then injured for the last third of the season.

Was taken out of a number of games by a close checking defender e.g. Carlton game.

2011 ordinary start to the year with again the problem of defenders rendering him close to useless.

Injured again for a long spell may only get back for the last 4 games.

seems to have lost his accurate kicking ability.

What is the situation with him in 2012?

He will be 29 and has not given us much in the last 2 years due to poor form and injury.

Will he be around if and when we have a chance at serious finals action in 2014?

I doubt it, it may be time to do another Trapper.

However I doubt we will find another Voss out there.

I would trade him and I think he is still marketable that may not be the case in 2013

[jabberwocky 2,301]

All account this is a "Blackjack draft" its top 21ish or bust. Think next year shapes up far deeper.

So its not weak ... but from all accounts it is shallow & a real gambling mans draft. Just dont think we need to gamble in this draft.

I think you need to have a good look at our list, consider those who can be delisted, rookies who can be upgraded, Vets List, and the picks that we have to use.

You might conclude as others have that we won't be trading for many, if any clear picks.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Martin if they came looking ought to worth similar to Morton, on the basis ready made improving rucks arent thick on the ground

just my views

By that logic we should trade key backs and forwards too.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Here is one to consider.

DAVEY.

2010 He had a good first half then injured for the last third of the season.

Was taken out of a number of games by a close checking defender e.g. Carlton game.

2011 ordinary start to the year with again the problem of defenders rendering him close to useless.

Injured again for a long spell may only get back for the last 4 games.

seems to have lost his accurate kicking ability.

What is the situation with him in 2012?

He will be 29 and has not given us much in the last 2 years due to poor form and injury.

Will he be around if and when we have a chance at serious finals action in 2014?

I doubt it, it may be time to do another Trapper.

However I doubt we will find another Voss out there.

I would trade him and I think he is still marketable that may not be the case in 2013

You know Old Dee im inclined to agree with this. I think this is the last opportunity we would get too to get a good market appraisal for Aaron. Id be sort of sad to see him go but at teh same time GWS or GC might offer a good barrow full of reddies. Having him off the books might afford some salary relief.

You make a sound argument when highlighting the notion that much should be crafted and moulded ( team wise ) as to who will be there in 2014-2016.

Hawks got rid of Everitt and many thought that silly..but in reality it was win win. Maybe Davey would fit a similar move ?

[beelzebub 23,383]

By that logic we should trade key backs and forwards too.

That is not what is said. nice try.

The comment is of the notion that martin is still young and maturiing into a role that probably is still 2-3 seasons away from his prime. In that light he might truly warrant a latter ( if slightly ) pick but Im compensating for supply /demand .

There are always far more backs and forwards on teh market than rucks

[Guest hangon007]

AOB and others are right. If the player wants to go, and it remains to be seen if any of the names discussed do, then you may as well get something.

ok ... but are you really getting "something" in this draft ... a point they fail to understand. They are supporting the notion we trade away our "depth" for a 6-10 pick upgrade in a shallowish draft ... and quote drafts with the value of hindsight. To me all that says is they have no ability to attempt to judge drafts on an individual basis and are spewing out the standard line. "oh something is better than nothing" ....

It doesnt always hold true that the higher the pick the better the player ... OMG if only it was that simple. What they fail to understand is you must judge every individual draft on its merits.

In our situation with spots at a premium upgraded picks may be the way to go rather than a speculative late pick that we probably can't use anyway.

Yeah now thats tough in this draft. I have a feeling "premium" picks are going to be worth twice what they were last year.

Edited July 6, 2011 by hangon007

[Dockett 32 1,239]

"If you were Matt Warnock would you want to stay on a list for depth or would you want to go to a club that you have a very good chance of playing weekly?

Our depth for key tall defenders will be McDonald and Davis.

Same goes with Maric, we need a small forward and he can't get a game, he will be looking at his options at years end. The club may have no choice to trade both Warnock and Maric or we me get the same as we got for Bruce."

Yep fair enough. Particularly re Mc Donald Davis and I have to agree Maric at the crossroads although he's doing his best at Casey to get a crack which is commendable. With still 9 games to go (and finals?) a bit can still happen and the Wona business is still up in the air as well. The Morton issue is still far from clear for me however.

[Guest hangon007]

We do have to make at least 3 spots on the list available, that means someone has go, and pick upgrades for them are better than nothing.

If you want to keep Warnock, Dunn and Bate which 3 are you letting go and for what?

Sadly my friend this year we somewhat are in the hands of GWS ... like it or lump it. Although their concessions are almost the same I think they hold far stronger cards than GC17 did last year early in this draft and weaker late in the draft.

I might end up trading the very same names, I might not, I would just approach it in a completely different manner.

Just a thought.

Edited July 6, 2011 by hangon007

[old55 23,709]

No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low.

That is you can't you know tune in but it's all right.

That is I think it's not too bad.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

I think our first round pick should go on the table in an effort to get one of the 17 year old picks from GWS.

According to Emma Quayle, this draft is really good for inside mids.

With Jack Viney coming in along with who we already have, I don't think we really have a pressing need for another inside mid.

I understand the draft doesn't necessarily work like that, and other types of players worthy of that pick could easily drop to us, but it's a numbers game.

I don't see why our 1st round pick, packaged with Bate and/or Dunn, couldn't get one of those picks and change.

[praha 11,240]

Pretty bad, lowest common denominator article. Nothing we didn't already know. Both are just Brad Miller 2.0, drafted by an insipid coaching and drafting team of the Daniher era.

[rpfc 28,782]

Nope you are right doesn't mean they cant be traded ... just a little more complicated than many around here want to make it.

Also sets a bad precedent ... but thats just my opinion. I much prefer to tell players time to get your head down bum up and get your spot back in our side & stay there. You honour your side of the deal I will honour mine.

It's plenty complicated...

We need to get rid of three off our main list.

If Nicholson is upgraded - it's four.

Who to move on?

And, yes, we can wait until Scully's decision is made.

Three or four out of Maric, Warnock, Bate, Dunn, Wonaeamirri, and Morton (for those so inclined) have to go.

Trade or delist, or mutually agree to nullify a contract, whatever.

Three or four have to go.

Who will they be?

Edited July 6, 2011 by rpfc

[BAMF 4,387]

GWS might just be stupid enough to collect all the Mortons. All out of favor and crazy Sheedy would love it.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,839]

Not sure Cale Morton was too fond of this article, had a bit of a jibe at Mark Stevens on Twitter (maybe tongue in cheek, I dunno)...

Anyway I reckon we'd be very silly to trade Morton for an early 2nd round pick (unless he walked out on us). Give him a full pre season over the summer and one more chance to redeem himself in 2012. After all, it really wasn't that long ago we all had him pencilled in as a future star, it's too early to be cutting our losses completely on a #4 pick.

2012 make or break.