i see where you are coming from.

His statements were what we wanted to hear, but stopped short of putting the rumours to bed becasue although they were headed in the right direction they were leaning towards non commital.

"I envisange this will be the case" could have said "I promise you this will be the case" - He leaves the door open that it might not happen.

en·vis·age/enˈvizij/Verb

1. Contemplate or conceive of as a possibility or a desirable future event.

so the quote is "anticipate"

an·tic·i·pate/anˈtisəˌpāt/Verb

1. Regard as probable; expect or predict.

2. Guess or be aware of (what will happen) and take action in order to be prepared

Still not definitive.

This is funny in a morbid kind of way.

Lol what will happen on the eve of rd 24 if he still hasn't signed to either club?

Sad realisation that he is gone? Or a complete meltdown?

i see where you are coming from.

His statements were what we wanted to hear, but stopped short of putting the rumours to bed becasue although they were headed in the right direction they were leaning towards non commital.

"I envisange this will be the case" could have said "I promise you this will be the case" - He leaves the door open that it might not happen.

en·vis·age/enˈvizij/Verb

1. Contemplate or conceive of as a possibility or a desirable future event.

Yes, I recall the euphoria from many who were thinking that he was commited to us after his speech. But on analysis it is obvious he said nothing. As I said before it was an impressive well coached speech.

So let's analyze what he said - because, you know, we didn't do that at the time...

He expects that he will be a one-club player. (which may, or may not, mean playing for two clubs)

He didn't say that he "promises that to be the case" because the 19 year old didn't feel comfortable playing out his contract negotiation in the media. Far out, I'm 24 and didn't feel comfortable signing my contract in front of the person who was employing me!

i have had some good sleeps over this issue and feel pretty comfortable about the post-season shake-out. the 'tom is a liar' thing is irrelevant. if you are forced to 'lie' under duress then it is not really a lie. in the player's world they are forced to play for the club they are sent to. they then have to mimic max. loyalty or get villified by the gallery everytime they enter the workplace. on the other hand we should not fall for the set-play put into place by the afl and gwc. if you blinked you missed it: a 'phoenix' club such as ours is about to have the gold ransacked from our cupboard just at the point where we have thrown off the shackles of our unsuccessful post-Norm Smith era . but this is exactly what is happening, and come the end of the season scully will be shielded by all his corporate backers and it won't matter how loudly we moan about fibs and 'but you promised'. there needs to be a day of reckoning, and before the end of the season just for the pride of the organisation and its supporters. we still have the cattle to restore pride to the club, but this won't happen if the cattle see us cowering before $$$player managers$$ and the $$$afl$$.

i have had some good sleeps over this issue and feel pretty comfortable about the post-season shake-out. the 'tom is a liar' thing is irrelevant. if you are forced to 'lie' under duress then it is not really a lie. in the player's world they are forced to play for the club they are sent to. they then have to mimic max. loyalty or get villified by the gallery everytime they enter the workplace. on the other hand we should not fall for the set-play put into place by the afl and gwc. if you blinked you missed it: a 'phoenix' club such as ours is about to have the gold ransacked from our cupboard just at the point where we have thrown off the shackles of our unsuccessful post-Norm Smith era . but this is exactly what is happening, and come the end of the season scully will be shielded by all his corporate backers and it won't matter how loudly we moan about fibs and 'but you promised'. there needs to be a day of reckoning, and before the end of the season just for the pride of the organisation and its supporters. we still have the cattle to restore pride to the club, but this won't happen if the cattle see us cowering before $$$player managers$$ and the $$$afl$$.

Very well said. And also I'd like to know is what are his real feelings towards the club.

i have had some good sleeps over this issue and feel pretty comfortable about the post-season shake-out. the 'tom is a liar' thing is irrelevant. if you are forced to 'lie' under duress then it is not really a lie. in the player's world they are forced to play for the club they are sent to. they then have to mimic max. loyalty or get villified by the gallery everytime they enter the workplace. on the other hand we should not fall for the set-play put into place by the afl and gwc. if you blinked you missed it: a 'phoenix' club such as ours is about to have the gold ransacked from our cupboard just at the point where we have thrown off the shackles of our unsuccessful post-Norm Smith era . but this is exactly what is happening, and come the end of the season scully will be shielded by all his corporate backers and it won't matter how loudly we moan about fibs and 'but you promised'. there needs to be a day of reckoning, and before the end of the season just for the pride of the organisation and its supporters. we still have the cattle to restore pride to the club, but this won't happen if the cattle see us cowering before $player managers$ and the $afl$.

"if you are forced to lie under duress then it is not really a lie".

That's an interesting way of putting it, Bushdemon.

When I think of that sentence I envision a terrorist holding a gun to a hostage's head, not Gubby Allen standing in the shadows of a press conference with a sackful of money.

an aspect which leads me to believe the rumours are true is that GWS have offered him a contract, reportedly in the same ball park to where the rumours had always suggested.One of the hopes that i was resting my hat on earlier in the year was that the rumour was only a rumour, and that GWS weren’t interested in scully at all (or at least at such massive $$$) and that it was a smoke screen started by Eddie and co to distract the media from speculating about Dale Thomas and co. Now that GWS have put a substantial offer on the table it confirms every point of the rumour apart from that Scully has already signed....theres a piece of the puzzle missing here, and its only one piece so you can tell what the finished puzzle is going to look like...

It does not, in fact, confirm dollar amounts of either contract. The amounts being bandied around are best guesses put forward by Mike Sheahan and run with by everyone else. For all we know GWS have offered him 1.5 and MFC 1.4. I doubt that is the case but this is not something we know for certain. The difference between the two after tax has been shown to be about 200k, imagine if the GWS offer wasn't quite as large as reported, that would mean the gap would be even smaller. There is much more to play out here, and none of us can know anything, other than that Contracts have been put forward and Tom has not signed yet. Everything else is rumour and innuendo.

You mean the middle aged people that have followed the club for more than 50 years and that have tipped a [censored] load of money in when the club looked like foundering?I can't say with certainty that the players aren't going to be ok with this much the same way you can't confirm that it's all ok. Trenners will be looked after I'm sure about that but if Scully stays and in a few years he is not the star that many had hoped he would be there will (I guess) questions asked by players that are performing better and getting paid half the amount.My opinion is that we will never know what the ramifications are because Tom Scully will be playing for GWS so it won't be an issue.

Yep, they're the ones I mean. Finally after all this time though, you have admitted what I was trying to say all along. Your use of the words "it will have a profound effect on the rest of the players at the club, mark my words" is you trying to say with certainty. It is a statement, not an assumption. I on the other hand have maintained all along that I do not know what effect it will have, but have faith that the club have done their due diligence on this matter, and have done everything within their power to make sure it won't have a detrimental effect. So you can stop trying to make me out as a know all, because I have always claimed I do not know all. As to your opinion that he will go to GWS, I disagree, but as neither of us know it is a non issue here.

It's human nature though isn't Rp? We change our minds. We make mistakes. We backtrack.

I apologise, I thought this was an admission that you realised what your position was implying about the truthfulness of Tom Scully.

I apologise for stating that you took this rational step.

I find this interesting, you've never valued my opinion before in fact you've never even been interested in it before.

You'd be surprised.

To answer your question, which I don't really think needs answering, I'd hold Sylvia or any other player in the same contempt if they tried to do the same. There that ok for you?

Thanks. Yep. And considering Sylvia is holding out for a larger slice, I know where you stand on Sylvia too.

Can you please point me to the place where Scully has made a demand.... Sylvia has and said the offer you have put to me isn't acceptable maybe give him a kick in the ass.

Correct.

Yeah laughs at me all the time... Got on here with him and Jack Fitzpatrick last year and they couldn't believe the amount of reporting on pre-season training, analysis of games they thought it was pretty funny that people paid them so much attention (you forgot they are kids)

No doubt would have been amused at the reaction after our NAB Cup Round 1 loss last year to Fremantle in WA. Actually, quite bewildered.

I'm his elite player sponsor at the club

Mate ... you have done a great job. Hope your relationship with Tom at the MFC lasts for many years.

Credit to you.

Ditto, Wolfmother.

I had more to say at the time but co-incidently 20 minutes before the press conference I was suspended for a trifling matter. HT is always following me around out of morbid curiosity and very keen with the delete/suspend button.

You're talking about a situation in which you did not adhere to the Code of Conduct, ignored previous warning(s), and it was done for good reason. If you have a complaint, there are appropriate channels.

For the record, it's been on one occassion. So this "very keen" notion/description is incorrect. Nor am I inclined to follow you around. I don't want to follow someone to the GWS forum...

It does not, in fact, confirm dollar amounts of either contract. The amounts being bandied around are best guesses put forward by Mike Sheahan and run with by everyone else. For all we know GWS have offered him 1.5 and MFC 1.4. I doubt that is the case but this is not something we know for certain. The difference between the two after tax has been shown to be about 200k, imagine if the GWS offer wasn't quite as large as reported, that would mean the gap would be even smaller. There is much more to play out here, and none of us can know anything, other than that Contracts have been put forward and Tom has not signed yet. Everything else is rumour and innuendo.

Yep, they're the ones I mean. Finally after all this time though, you have admitted what I was trying to say all along. Your use of the words "it will have a profound effect on the rest of the players at the club, mark my words" is you trying to say with certainty. It is a statement, not an assumption. I on the other hand have maintained all along that I do not know what effect it will have, but have faith that the club have done their due diligence on this matter, and have done everything within their power to make sure it won't have a detrimental effect. So you can stop trying to make me out as a know all, because I have always claimed I do not know all. As to your opinion that he will go to GWS, I disagree, but as neither of us know it is a non issue here.

That was and still is my opinion, can't see the problem there.

Am I to assume that anything you say on here is just pure guesswork and you really don't know? If that's the case you sure post a lot of guesswork and assumption judging by the number of posts you are currently on.

How much would the new Demonland sponsors be loving Tom Scully at the moment!!!!!

Nissan Micra here I come!

Tom should be on a 3rd party deal with them!

My only problem with this whole debate is the inability of some not to take their arguments to their logical end.

If you believe Tom Scully received offers before his presser, signed heads of agreement, contracts, handshakes for committment. his signature is one of the four on the contracts with the AFL - whatever - there is no problem with that opinion. You can make arguments to support this as many have.

But you cant hold this opinion and say Ts/Velocity comments have been spin - its is called lying - TS has lied and so have velocity.

Mike Sheahan, Damian Barrett, Mark Stevens, The Ox by their beliefs in what has transpired are not implying that TS/Velocity are lying - it is an irrefutable irreversible conclusion to their belief. At least Mark Robinson is saying now - "I have no idea what to believe".

If you believe he has already signed then man up and say - TS is a liar.

I dont believe he has agreed or signed therefore I dont think he has lied. If you think he has signed and already gone then you have to believe he has lied - thats your opinion and thats fine - just say it !

I don't want to follow someone to the GWS forum...

Yes HT, I am not worthy but I know you would follow Tom anywhere even he goes to Collingwood.

That was and still is my opinion, can't see the problem there.Am I to assume that anything you say on here is just pure guesswork and you really don't know? If that's the case you sure post a lot of guesswork and assumption judging by the number of posts you are currently on.

If it is your opinion, state that by saying "I reckon it will have a profound effect on the players". As I said, there is a big difference between making a statement or an assumption. It is interesting to note that even though you claim to have "tipped a [censored] load of money in when the club looked like foundering?" you seem to have a very low opinion of the management of said club, if you think they would go around offering contracts that they know will destabilise the playing group, or if you think they didn't even realise it would have this effect. And you are free to assume whatever the hell you want about me mate. My assumption and guesswork is currently sitting at 575, yours at 1381, interesting that. 90% of what is uttered on this site is assumption, opinion and guesswork, so get over yourself.

My only problem with this whole debate is the inability of some not to take their arguments to their logical end.If you believe Tom Scully received offers before his presser, signed heads of agreement, contracts, handshakes for committment. his signature is one of the four on the contracts with the AFL - whatever - there is no problem with that opinion. You can make arguments to support this as many have.But you cant hold this opinion and say Ts/Velocity comments have been spin - its is called lying - TS has lied and so have velocity. Mike Sheahan, Damian Barrett, Mark Stevens, The Ox by their beliefs in what has transpired are not implying that TS/Velocity are lying - it is an irrefutable irreversible conclusion to their belief. At least Mark Robinson is saying now - "I have no idea what to believe". If you believe he has already signed then man up and say - TS is a liar. I dont believe he has agreed or signed therefore I dont think he has lied. If you think he has signed and already gone then you have to believe he has lied - thats your opinion and thats fine - just say it !

Well said Nutbean.

It's only painful, stressful and fruitless if you're lying.

If you're telling the truth, why worry?

The guy is having his reputation smashed on national Tv and radio yet won't come out swinging.

Why?

Perhaps because he is comfortable in the knowledge that he isn't lying?

My only problem with this whole debate is the inability of some not to take their arguments to their logical end.

If you believe Tom Scully received offers before his presser, signed heads of agreement, contracts, handshakes for committment. his signature is one of the four on the contracts with the AFL - whatever - there is no problem with that opinion. You can make arguments to support this as many have.

But you cant hold this opinion and say Ts/Velocity comments have been spin - its is called lying - TS has lied and so have velocity.

Mike Sheahan, Damian Barrett, Mark Stevens, The Ox by their beliefs in what has transpired are not implying that TS/Velocity are lying - it is an irrefutable irreversible conclusion to their belief. At least Mark Robinson is saying now - "I have no idea what to believe".

If you believe he has already signed then man up and say - TS is a liar.

I dont believe he has agreed or signed therefore I dont think he has lied. If you think he has signed and already gone then you have to believe he has lied - thats your opinion and thats fine - just say it !

Because Nutbean, if you outright accuse someone of lying without veritable proof, you are slandering them. A ban-able offense I would have thought.

What do I believe? I believe life 'aint all sunshine and rainbows. And I believe many of you wouldn't make good poker players.

You'd be surprised.

Thanks. Yep. And considering Sylvia is holding out for a larger slice, I know where you stand on Sylvia too.

I don't have an issue with any player that feels that they have given the club years of service and the offer on the table is below what they are worth. If the offer they have put to Sylvia is not even realistic then I'd expect him to think that he isn't a needed player and perhaps he should look elsewhere. Surely Tom Scully doesn't believe that after 1 season and a handful of games he is worth $1m per year. I have no idea what they have offered Sylvia and it may be that they have had to reduce his offer to accommodate the Scully contract, if that's the case then my statement that it will have an effect on the other players might be starting to come to fruition.

Perhaps because he is comfortable in the knowledge that he isn't lying?

That's not what Cam Schwab said on SEN the other day. Said Tom was hurt that people would suggest he's been lying.

Doesn't sound very 'comfortable with it' to me.

It's only painful, stressful and fruitless if you're lying.

If you're telling the truth, why worry?

The guy is having his reputation smashed on national Tv and radio yet won't come out swinging.

Why? I doubt many posters on here would be so generous of spirit to these 'bastard journos' ...

I cannot believe you are sticking with such a specious argument.

'He is lying because if he wasn't he would take those journos to court.'

Range Rover is a 4-foot midget transvestite with athlete's foot.

If you don't take me to court we will all know something we didn't want to know about RR...

If you believe he has already signed then man up and say - TS is a liar.

Tom Scully's press conference deceived us all. He lied.

If he does anything other than sign with MFC the above is true in my eyes. And i dont think he'll play in our colours next year

That's not what Cam Schwab said on SEN the other day. Said Tom was hurt that people would suggest he's been lying.

Doesn't sound very 'comfortable with it' to me.

It's a very trite view to say that 'if you are not happy with something that is said about you, then take them to court.'

Having watched someone take another party to court for something similar it is not a fun process - it is draining, and that person wouldn't do it again.

Just because someone isn't litigious, doesn't mean they are tacitly saying they are liars.

Barrett sounded very unconvincing last night and he even said that he would take Tom on his word, so perhaps we all should.

Just for those that have missed an obvious point. Scully has indeed made a demand of the club, that he WONT commit until the end of the season , if inddeed he does. Now some may see this as a nonsense but as its the crux of the matter I hardly see how it is. Many different options come into play at season's end that arent there now that is if there are indeed any real options at all.

As RB, Myself, RR and others have already noted here the environment in which all this is taking place has changed from when the initial gambit of "I wont sign til eos 2011" was announced.

Much about anything in life is the position of one's motive. There must be something terribly terribly important about the timing ( and its associated possibilites) that has Scully/ Velocity adamant about not signing now. Many other players arent taking this repose. They are adjusting as deals and offers are made.

Some wil lsay, well he's entitled to do so. In a fashion I cant disagree. Bu tin theface of all things it really smacks of an ulterior reasoning. What more does he need to know ? He knows what GWS have on the table..He knows what MFC has on the table. Its irrelevant in reality what transpires at the CBA..So again What ?

I hear the deafening silence from those that suggest "all is well" . If there is nothing untoward then there is only benefits to the club and himself to sign now. . He could probably get an instant pay rise in doing so. Irregardless of what the AFL say .. The club would sit easier, the fans would sit easier , the focus would return to footy and this is his want after all...supposedly all about the footy. But he doesnt . Why ?

This kid would make one hell of a poker player !!!