http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-midfielder-declares-his-side-must-stand-up/story-e6frf9jf-1226056377588

Line in the sand, anyone?

Spot on. If our more experienced players do not wish to Gut run & give second efforts then we should pension them off as soon as possible. With that soft attitude we will never rise above nothing.

Saturday proved that beyond doubt.

I don't understand how you can be paid so well to have such an awesome job, you have top notch faciltiies and coaches, and you run out in front of thousands for game day and you don't go hard. Where is your pride? Someone should have a program where these blokes go digging trenches or driving cabs like they would have been if they didn't have this amazing opportunity the rest of us long for. Bunch of spineless prima donnas with no heart

I feel better reading this. I for one noticed Davey and Green on Saturday not running hard enough the 'other' way. The fact that people thought I was harsh and have bookmarked my posts should also realise that many nuetrals feel the same way.

Davey can't play half back as he gets smashed the other way. Green just jogged around most of the game without an opponent.

Moloney copped a massive tag and was heavily stopped by North at the stoppages and still tried his guts out. If this happened to Davey he would have said this is to hard and sulk it, examples Brisbane game with Raines.

These are 2 guys with a vested interest in our failure. They clearly know that if we keep doing what we're doing and stick to our guns we'll be a dominant side over the next few years. We've finally got on an even playing field with the other clubs in regards to facilities etc., the last thing we want to be doing is letting the Hawthorn Football Club make our decisions. We have a good playing group, good coaching group and our 'culture' is fine. Come on Dees!!

These are 2 guys with a vested interest in our failure. They clearly know that if we keep doing what we're doing and stick to our guns we'll be a dominant side over the next few years. We've finally got on an even playing field with the other clubs in regards to facilities etc., the last thing we want to be doing is letting the Hawthorn Football Club make our decisions. We have a good playing group, good coaching group and our 'culture' is fine. Come on Dees!!

This post is not so much line in the sand as head in the sand.

I feel better reading this. I for one noticed Davey and Green on Saturday not running hard enough the 'other' way. The fact that people thought I was harsh and have bookmarked my posts should also realise that many nuetrals feel the same way.

Davey can't play half back as he gets smashed the other way. Green just jogged around most of the game without an opponent.

Moloney copped a massive tag and was heavily stopped by North at the stoppages and still tried his guts out. If this happened to Davey he would have said this is to hard and sulk it, examples Brisbane game with Raines.

Take into account Hawthorn's effort yesterday...2 on the Bench by early second Quarter....They Totally smashed the St.kilda carcass with a bunch of kids playing....The Attitude of Hawthorn is to "NOT LOSE" same with Essendon...When these clubs dip, the problem is found and fixed. Period.

We at the MFC still bring out excuses.

I would drop Brad Green to Casey next week....That might fix up a problem pretty quick.

If you want to Captain this great Club....earn it.

Take into account Hawthorn's effort yesterday...2 on the Bench by early second Quarter....They Totally smashed the St.kilda carcass with a bunch of kids playing....The Attitude of Hawthorn is to "NOT LOSE" same with Essendon...When these clubs dip, the problem is found and fixed. Period.

Yep - I was there yesterday, and to see ten Hawks rush to congratulate a team mate for a bit of work made me feel very miserable - we DON'T do that - it can be all a bit pretty.

These are 2 guys with a vested interest in our failure. They clearly know that if we keep doing what we're doing and stick to our guns we'll be a dominant side over the next few years. We've finally got on an even playing field with the other clubs in regards to facilities etc., the last thing we want to be doing is letting the Hawthorn Football Club make our decisions. We have a good playing group, good coaching group and our 'culture' is fine. Come on Dees!!

You are joking aern't you??

Did you watch the Hawthorn game yesterday??

Our culture is so far from being fine at present...(70 point turnaround against Nought Melbourne)

You must be having a laugh....

Take into account Hawthorn's effort yesterday...2 on the Bench by early second Quarter....They Totally smashed the St.kilda carcass with a bunch of kids playing....The Attitude of Hawthorn is to "NOT LOSE" same with Essendon...When these clubs dip, the problem is found and fixed. Period.

We at the MFC still bring out excuses.

I would drop Brad Green to Casey next week....That might fix up a problem pretty quick.

If you want to Captain this great Club....earn it.

I agree, as soon as Hawthron lost those two players I knew they were going to win. We went to butter and it all looked to hard where as they thrived on it, there captain Hodge ran harder and wanted to impact the game. I'm afraid when it comes to Green it got a bit to hard. Had to get the ball himself.

sums up Melbourne doesnt it.. Weve known this for a while, many of us.. The Pretty Boy Demons !!.. dont like it rough... get monstered by truly hungry teams.

its embarassing at times.

Just wish the players were as much as us.

All we ever hear is word words..and more f'n words !!

You are joking aern't you??

Did you watch the Hawthorn game yesterday??

Our culture is so far from being fine at present...(70 point turnaround against Nought Melbourne)

You must be having a laugh....

So a 70 point turnaround is about culture?

Look, I'm not down at the club on a daily basis to see first hand what the culture is like - but I'd assume that, in a professional atmosphere, most clubs are doing the same things relevant to available resources. I'm just not sold on there being some airy, fairy thing called culture hanging in the rafters stopping us from performing. If you are right then it starts at the top, guys like Jim Stynes are responsible for this. Simply not convinced.

I believe in the structure that is in place and I hope we stick at it and that stability leads us to success.

So a 70 point turnaround is about culture?

Look, I'm not down at the club on a daily basis to see first hand what the culture is like - but I'd assume that, in a professional atmosphere, most clubs are doing the same things relevant to available resources. I'm just not sold on there being some airy, fairy thing called culture hanging in the rafters stopping us from performing. If you are right then it starts at the top, guys like Jim Stynes are responsible for this. Simply not convinced.

I believe in the structure that is in place and I hope we stick at it and that stability leads us to success.

If you think culture is airy fairy, then you have demonstated your knowledge of the subject. None.

So a 70 point turnaround is about culture?

Look, I'm not down at the club on a daily basis to see first hand what the culture is like - but I'd assume that, in a professional atmosphere, most clubs are doing the same things relevant to available resources. I'm just not sold on there being some airy, fairy thing called culture hanging in the rafters stopping us from performing. If you are right then it starts at the top, guys like Jim Stynes are responsible for this. Simply not convinced.

I believe in the structure that is in place and I hope we stick at it and that stability leads us to success.

words & not actions are what you are believing in.

So a 70 point turnaround is about culture?

Look, I'm not down at the club on a daily basis to see first hand what the culture is like - but I'd assume that, in a professional atmosphere, most clubs are doing the same things relevant to available resources. I'm just not sold on there being some airy, fairy thing called culture hanging in the rafters stopping us from performing. If you are right then it starts at the top, guys like Jim Stynes are responsible for this. Simply not convinced.

I believe in the structure that is in place and I hope we stick at it and that stability leads us to success.

Doesn't hang around in the rafters, mate. You must be thinking of Junction oval

All we hear is talk from the players, whether it be through papers, tv or twitter. It's just that talk, and it seems that the players are happy enough to talk it up, but come game day let it slip. Was the game against the Crows an aberration? Well they are bookended by two pathetic efforts.

The coach talks so much waffle, so slowly, i think he loves the sound of his own voice. As for our "leaders" - Green needs to shut up and put up (funny how he tugged the jumper when we were 60 points up), Davey is just a lazy footballer who thinks he is better than he is. If he was playing in the forward line, then people would be screaming for him to be dropped (it's a lot easier to get the ball when it comes to you, not you having to go get it).

I'd honestly drop them both. It will never happen, coz the FD would be too scared to do it, but what a statement it would make.

If you think culture is airy fairy, then you have demonstated your knowledge of the subject. None.

Yep, spot on. I'm a supporter like the rest of us on here.

So a 70 point turnaround is about culture?

Look, I'm not down at the club on a daily basis to see first hand what the culture is like - but I'd assume that, in a professional atmosphere, most clubs are doing the same things relevant to available resources. I'm just not sold on there being some airy, fairy thing called culture hanging in the rafters stopping us from performing. If you are right then it starts at the top, guys like Jim Stynes are responsible for this. Simply not convinced.

I believe in the structure that is in place and I hope we stick at it and that stability leads us to success.

I think it is quotes like this that make people feel that there may be a problem atm.... when one of the more experienced players at your club questions weather it has anything to stand for it may indicate that there is a cultural problem of sorts... people not being willing to put it all out there etc...

MELBOURNE forward Colin Sylvia says it is time for his club to "stand for something".

Fortunately i feel that a lot of the younger players in Bail, Frawley, Trengove, Scully, Mckenzie along with Jones, Moloney Jamar and Sylvia put in the effort... and will bring change

Lets hope that the players can actually do something about it now, like Chapman did at Geelong when it made it clear to his team mates during the 07 season that they were not putting in as hard as they could, and thought that they were better than they actually were playing.

I hope someone has an honesty session at Melbourne during the week, the fact that Brereton comments on the talent our list has says something.... he also says in more flowery terms that they are also as soft and lazy as SHI&

These are 2 guys with a vested interest in our failure. They clearly know that if we keep doing what we're doing and stick to our guns we'll be a dominant side over the next few years. We've finally got on an even playing field with the other clubs in regards to facilities etc., the last thing we want to be doing is letting the Hawthorn Football Club make our decisions. We have a good playing group, good coaching group and our 'culture' is fine. Come on Dees!!

mate these are two guys with runs on the board who know what a successful culture is. A culture that doesn't accept excuses and "I can't". To think they show anything towards us but contempt and pity is laughable. They showed how scared they were of our club in '88.

I was watching the Barassi doco Operation Premiership last night and he and the players talk about the culture he found at North when he arrived. The acceptance of losing. The near enough is good enough. The we can't so we might as well not try and we couldn't because of injuries anyhow. This is the same culture that has existed at our club for way too long and needs to be eradicated. If you think this is airy fairy claptrap well ... maybe that's part of the problem at our club. We think it's all good when they are deep seated issues that need addressing.

As the saying goes..."when the going gets tough, the tough get going". On ALL evidence this year, we place like heroes when it is easy. As soon as it gets tough, we drop away. Culture? Attitude? Ability? - Dont know the reason, but hoping there is a solution. The Dees need to stop being Fuchias and start being Demons!

dees have a poor culture - accept it and improve it

we are full of excuses

I get all this culture talk because we so badly seem to lack something.

But I cannot accept that it has always been like this. I'm 35 and the teams I loved growing up with in the mid to late 80's and early 90's were all heart.

Led by a terrific coach in John Northey and although we had players of less skill, the application and desire was there week in, week out. Northey drove this.

The downhill skiers didn't come in until we became the yo yo, up and down side under Daniher. Thus why he went for McLean and Sylvia. From this time the problem has not been addressed.

Anyone that refers to 88 and says Hawthorn were not scared, that's because they were just an unbelievable footy side. Simple. Nothing to do with out culture as 87, 88, 89, 90, 91 were decent years for this club and we should have built better on that foundation I believe.

I get all this culture talk because we so badly seem to lack something.

But I cannot accept that it has always been like this. I'm 35 and the teams I loved growing up with in the mid to late 80's and early 90's were all heart.

Led by a terrific coach in John Northey and although we had players of less skill, the application and desire was there week in, week out. Northey drove this.

The downhill skiers didn't come in until we became the yo yo, up and down side under Daniher. Thus why he went for McLean and Sylvia. From this time the problem has not been addressed.

Anyone that refers to 88 and says Hawthorn were not scared, that's because they were just an unbelievable footy side. Simple. Nothing to do with out culture as 87, 88, 89, 90, 91 were decent years for this club and we should have built better on that foundation I believe.

We still lost crucial games during the Northey years, which made us finish 5th rather than 3rd. Northey almost cracked it, but we were so out of our depth in that '88 game.

Same thing happened with Neil Balme & ND. Sure our facilities were not great, and that no doubt helped to fester this feeling of "It's all a bit too hard" which is what we are trying to eradicate now.

But when the captain seems to be one of the main culprits, it does make the whole problem rather difficult.

We still lost crucial games during the Northey years, which made us finish 5th rather than 3rd. Northey almost cracked it, but we were so out of our depth in that '88 game.

Same thing happened with Neil Balme & ND. Sure our facilities were not great, and that no doubt helped to fester this feeling of "It's all a bit too hard" which is what we are trying to eradicate now.

But when the captain seems to be one of the main culprits, it does make the whole problem rather difficult.

Agree WYL, we did. But we still had damn fine wins like against Hawks at Princes Park in 88. That's just one that stands out for me, in a mud heap and a great old fashioned game of footy.

We were out of our depth in 88 but it was the heart of our group that got us there. Could well argue though that we should have got one in 1990/91 and that would have stamped that period has a great time for the MFC. I guess that is the majority of the issue here, hey? That we didn't get the flag in those ensuing years.

I agree with them.