James McDonald-v-Brad Johnson

[MadAsHell 4,209]

After watching Brad Johnson play against Collingwood on saturday night he really did struggle, and for that matter he has been very ordinary all year.

There are now reports that he will retire at seasons end after the Bulldogs finals series with a view to playing in their remaining matches.

It really made me look on our James McDonald with an even greater respect then I already have. Junior was in a position where he wanted to keep playing but after a slight push he stood aside for the good of the club and to allow to fast track development of other players. He also bowed out still playing good football.

Johnson (if you believe some Bulldogs fans) is only announcing his retirement now to ensure he isn't dropped. If I was on the Bulldogs match commitee there's no way that I'd be playing Brad Johnson due to form and the fact he looks liek he's still carrying his injury. Johnson himself would know how much he's struggling and how much more worth someone like an Everitt, Hill or Stack could provide the Doggies.

End of the day Melbourne and the Bulldogs are loosing 2 great veterans/servants of their club at the end of 2010. However while McDonald bowed out putting the team first and knowing when to step aside, it seems as though over at Whitten Oval their captain can't see the bigger picture and seems more concerned about his own standing then the greater success of the team.

Harsh, but that's just the way I see it.

Edit: Missed typing a word.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Tall Defence

[Steamin Demon 392]

After watching Brad Johnson play against Collingwood on saturday night he really did struggle, and for that matter he has been very ordinary all year.

There are now reports that he will retire at seasons end after the Bulldogs finals series with a view to playing in their remaining matches.

It really made me look on our James McDonald with an even greater respect then I already have. Junior was in a position where he wanted to keep playing but after a slight push he stood aside for the good of the club and to allow to fast track development of other players. He also bowed out still playing good football.

Johnson (if you believe some Bulldogs fans) is only announcing his retirement now to ensure he isn't dropped. If I was on the Bulldogs match commitee there's no way that I'd be playing Brad Johnson due to form and the fact he looks liek he's still carrying his injury. Johnson himself would know how much he's struggling and how much more worth someone like an Everitt, Hill or Stack could provide the Doggies.

End of the day Melbourne and the Bulldogs are loosing 2 great veterans/servants of their club at the end of 2010. However while McDonald bowed out putting the team first and knowing when to step aside, it seems as though over at Whitten Oval their captain can't see the bigger picture and seems more concerned about his own standing then the greater success of the team.

Harsh, but that's just the way I see it.

Edit: Missed typing a word.

I think it's more a reflection on the club than the person. I remember only a few weeks back people on this forum were arguing that players of that standing have the right to go out on their terms, I think we are now seeing with Johnno why that is not the case.

The Melbourne football club and James Mcdonald should all be applauded for the way they handled this situation.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Steamin Demon

[MadAsHell 4,209]

I think it's more a reflection on the club than the person. I remeber only a few weeks back people on this forum were arguing that players of that standing have the right to go out on their terms, I think we are now seeing with Johnno why that is not the case.

The Melbourne football club and James Mcdonald should all be applauded for the way they handled this situation.

Well said.

I reckon when it comes to finals football you really can't afford to gift people games.

While Brad Johnson has been a super player, I believe his club is suffering with him playing in the team at the moment.

[pringle 42]

Out of the teams at the top end of the ladder, the Doggies are the team I would have most liked to see win the flag this year. They've had very little success in the past and at the beginning of the season they looked in good shape to have a tilt. It is sad to see them have such a poor run of luck this year. They've had a whole raft of crucial injuries at the wrong time of the year and their once proud club champion has succumbed to mother time.

But I think there is also something else lacking at the Doggies. You can't put it all down to bad luck. You make your own luck. You build a winning culture over years and years of hard work and self-belief. Unfortunately I don't think the Doggies have "IT".

The doggies seemed to have imploded right at the time when they looked capable of finally breaking the shackles of decades of mediocrity. Brad Johnson is an out and out champion of the AFL and it's sad to see him leave without a flag after years of great service to a struggling AFL minnow.

To relate that to Melbourne, if we are to win a flag some time in the not too distant future, there is still a LOT more hard work to do in building the ruthlessness and winning culture that is needed to make it to the top of the tree.

[Deetective Sgt. Taggert 389]

To relate that to Melbourne, if we are to win a flag some time in the not too distant future, there is still a LOT more hard work to do in building the ruthlessness and winning culture that is needed to make it to the top of the tree.

Strongly agree with this statement. While we do have an exciting list at present with the potential to go all the way, actually getting there requires a whole lot of discplined and consistant effort over an extended period of time. Not just in sporadic bursts. We've mostly just show the latter to date.

[Ash35 425]

I think it's more a reflection on the club than the person. I remember only a few weeks back people on this forum were arguing that players of that standing have the right to go out on their terms, I think we are now seeing with Johnno why that is not the case.

Very true.

I'm sure if MFC offered Junior another season, he would have taken it, and probably rightly so.

As long as the Bulldogs were happy for Johnno to play on, he was always going to.

Both great champions.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If we were in the same position as Western Bulldogs and wanting to challenge for the flag, I am not sure we would have urged Junior to retire. We would have rolled the dice and risked another year.

Here is an article in the Age on Johnsons retirement

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/brad-johnson-makes-his-retirement-official-20100906-14wwt.html

"Johnson has played 362 games since his debut in 1994. Famously hardy, he played a minimum of 21 games in every season from 1995 to 2009, but ankle and achilles injuries have kept him to just 13 matches in 2010."

"In 2009, he kicked 37 goals, was second at the club for kicks, marks and goals and finished fourth in the best and fairest award as the Dogs pushed to within seven points of a grand final berth. He was amongst his team's best players in the heartbreaking preliminary final loss to St Kilda."

Betweeen them, Akermanis and Johnson contributed 80 goals to the Bulldogs cause in 2009, and 11 this year. Recruit Barry Hall, 33, has booted 75 majors.

So who had their hand up that Johnson should have retired last year???

Johnson retires from WB as a one of greatest players ever to play for the Club. His record makes him a great of the AFL. Its a misguided and poorly informed slap at him. If anything Johnson has as much ticker for his club as Junior or Neita.

What ready alternatives are there to Johnson, a proven finals campaigner?? Stack and Hill are as "firm" as warm butter and Everitt cant crack a game throughout the year even when the side has been struggling. Says heaps.

There have been a number of things that have gone wrong at WB this year. Johnson's injury being one of them. There performance against the Pies (sans Hudson and Griffen) was poor and I dont know why Johnsons cops the spray. He deserves better from all football followers.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Well said.

I reckon when it comes to finals football you really can't afford to gift people games.

While Brad Johnson has been a super player, I believe his club is suffering with him playing in the team at the moment.

It's not Brad Johnson's fault that the Doggies recruited for a faulty game structure years back based on a whim, & then stopped hard recruiting too soon. Too many purely skilled running players of similar size range, rather than the tried & true old formulas of team structured balances with good talls & smalls + a sprinkling of ruggedness.

To me, they stopped recruiting enough 4 or 5 years ago believing in their list & gameplan at that time. They have 2 - 3 years to do a quick rejig of their list & i think they need to change coach to rejig the gamestyle.

Following that timeframe, the Newbreed will be well on the way with Us & the GC Suns, + others coming thru.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Out of the teams at the top end of the ladder, the Doggies are the team I would have most liked to see win the flag this year. They've had very little success in the past and at the beginning of the season they looked in good shape to have a tilt. It is sad to see them have such a poor run of luck this year. They've had a whole raft of crucial injuries at the wrong time of the year and their once proud club champion has succumbed to mother time.

But I think there is also something else lacking at the Doggies. You can't put it all down to bad luck. You make your own luck. You build a winning culture over years and years of hard work and self-belief. Unfortunately I don't think the Doggies have "IT".

The doggies seemed to have imploded right at the time when they looked capable of finally breaking the shackles of decades of mediocrity.

The Bulldogs have never been good enough.

Two A grade players in Cooney and Lake.

A lot of B+s and a few fairweather B-s and Cs.Some ageing players (stars) who gave little this year in Johnson, Aker and Eagleton.

This year was their last real sting. They should clean a number of players out come next Monday.

[Daytona Demon 0]

I think the OP makes a valid point. Johnson's been a great player for them over the stretch, but has been a liability often this year. He's really dropped off in a major way, as tends to happen with players around that age.

Surely he would've known that he wasn't going to play on next year for some time. Why has he left it to the absolute last minute to announce that he's retiring?

The timing certainly makes it extremely awkward for the match committee to even consider dropping such an illustrious figure of the club, when he probably deserves to be...

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

Well said.

I reckon when it comes to finals football you really can't afford to gift people games.

While Brad Johnson has been a super player, I believe his club is suffering with him playing in the team at the moment.

the coach must go. he got the power forward he wanted. nothing has changed. he cant take the list any further. not a strong enough person to NOT PLAY JOHNO. i hope he coaches next year . teams will pass them

[MadAsHell 4,209]

End of the day it's quite sad that Brad Johnson (a great player over the years) is retiring with all this debate over should he play or shouldn't he?

It actually reminds me a bit of Garry Lyon going on that 1 extra year in 1999 when his body just wouldn't allow him to play more then the 2 games for his final year. Melbourne thought they were close to a premiership, and as RR mentioned earlier that's the reason why Bulldogs allowed Johnson to go on another year when in hindsight he probably shouldn't of, like Melbourne did with Lyon.

It's a very cruel game and it's amazing how going on just 1 extra year can change your final view of a player and the influence they have on matches.

Hopefully Johnson is remembered by the greater football community as the great player he once was and not the ageing player he is today who struggles to get around the park and who's place in the team is debatable.

[Daytona Demon 0]

I would say though, its probably not so much McDonald's 'class' in putting his hand up to step aside that's the difference. As he clearly didn't want to retire. He just didn't have a choice. It was either announce his retirement off his own bat or be delisted.

I'm not sure that anyone's been on Johnson's back telling him his time's up. I assume Eade would've told him so when the season was done and dusted.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

End of the day it's quite sad that Brad Johnson (a great player over the years) is retiring with all this debate over should he play or shouldn't he?

It actually reminds me a bit of Garry Lyon going on that 1 extra year in 1999 when his body just wouldn't allow him to play more then the 2 games for his final year. Melbourne thought they were close to a premiership, and as RR mentioned earlier that's the reason why Bulldogs allowed Johnson to go on another year when in hindsight he probably shouldn't of, like Melbourne did with Lyon.

Gary Lyon was able to string together a capable season in 1998 and deserved to play in 1999. The same applies to Brad Johnson. Its even more pronounced in Johnno's case. He has missed 4 games in 8 years up to this year. Was the Dogs best in their losing PF. Regardless of whether there was a GF in sight or not, on form and fitness Johnson deserved to play another year. I cant see how you can logically look back and make a case otherwise And hindsight would be a sharper skill if it were applied with some astute foresight

Hopefully Johnson is remembered by the greater football community as the great player he once was and not the ageing player he is today who struggles to get around the park and who's place in the team is debatable.

Given his career record, I cant see how his last couple of games will blight that in any way unless your name is Aker with an axe to grind.

I would say though, its probably not so much McDonald's 'class' in putting his hand up to step aside that's the difference. As he clearly didn't want to retire. He just didn't have a choice. It was either announce his retirement off his own bat or be delisted.

I'm not sure that anyone's been on Johnson's back telling him his time's up. I assume Eade would've told him so when the season was done and dusted.

McDonald had the class to accept the Clubs decision. I cant see how it puts him on any higher pedestal than Johnson. Both have been wonderful role models to the game.

After struggling pre season and only playing 3 games in the 1st half of the season.....I think there is something called the bleedin obvious.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Great player and a champion but maybe should have pulled the pin mid-season.

Has been getting a game on reputation for a while now while blokes like Moles and Everitt play in the twos.

I wonder if the Akermanis jibes affected his decision to keep playing?

[The Big Ticket 94]

Bit soft of Rocket to not drop him IMO.

Aker's not that much of an idiot.

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Aker's not that much of an idiot.

Subjective. Aker left two teams with them hating him no matter what he did on the field. Brad Johnson will never have that hanging over his head.

[Felix 92]

James McDonald > Brad Johnson imo... hope this isnt too witty!!! lol

[MadAsHell 4,209]

Gary Lyon was able to string together a capable season in 1998 and deserved to play in 1999. The same applies to Brad Johnson. Its even more pronounced in Johnno's case. He has missed 4 games in 8 years up to this year. Was the Dogs best in their losing PF. Regardless of whether there was a GF in sight or not, on form and fitness Johnson deserved to play another year. I cant see how you can logically look back and make a case otherwise And hindsight would be a sharper skill if it were applied with some astute foresight

Given his career record, I cant see how his last couple of games will blight that in any way unless your name is Aker with an axe to grind.

McDonald had the class to accept the Clubs decision. I cant see how it puts him on any higher pedestal than Johnson. Both have been wonderful role models to the game.

After struggling pre season and only playing 3 games in the 1st half of the season.....I think there is something called the bleedin obvious.

Sorry if your misunderstanding what I'm trying to get across RR. I'm not having a go at Johnson or Lyon from back in 99, I'm just saying that sometimes it's good if a player (or club) is able to look ahead and know when it's time to pull the pin and go out still on top instead of how it is/was in both these cases.

Take the retirements of Ben Cousins, James Hird and even Matthew Lloyd as some examples. All 3 of these players probably could of gone on another season as they were still playing well in their final seasons but decided to call it quits and hence they've still finished up while playing good football and not with the stigma of if their place in the team is even warranted.

I'd never question Johnson's commitment or achievements over the years and how much of a champion he is. All I'm saying is at the end of last year/start of this year when the achilies (or however it's spelt) struck, he was 33, played 349 games and with other senior members in the team he or the club maybe should of made the hard decission and pulled up stumps then. They took a punt but doesn't look like it's going to come off for them.

All my best wishes for Brad Johnson in the future and I hope for his sake they're able to win 3 more games for him, however in their current form I doubt they'll be able to win 1 more this season.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sorry if your misunderstanding what I'm trying to get across RR. I'm not having a go at Johnson or Lyon from back in 99, I'm just saying that sometimes it's good if a player (or club) is able to look ahead and know when it's time to pull the pin and go out still on top instead of how it is/was in both these cases.

No problems TD.

I would have thought in Johnsons case there was sufficient evidence to suggest he was good for 2010. And given they had recruited Hall up forward to strengthen their attack it made good sense to have Johnson along side of him. I would have thought that Johnson had viewed 2010 as his final year and the injury he got early in 2010 only confirmed the obvious.

In his final two years, Hird was a shadow of the footballer he was. It was over for him.

I dont think given what transpired off the field that Cousins was a likely prospect for re signing. Together with his dodgy hamstrings and his self publicity in his TV documentary, it made sense for him to go now.

Lloyd was the last of the traditional FFs and his output in 2009 was also well down on his previous efforts. In addition he was already looking at 4 to 6 weeks on the sidelines in 2010 so it was time to move on.

I agree WB are not much show this week and I think there is no risk in seeking to give the WB an inspirational boost by getting them to lift for the potential final game of a Club great. (eg Kirk with Sydney)

[MadAsHell 4,209]

No problems TD.

I would have thought in Johnsons case there was sufficient evidence to suggest he was good for 2010. And given they had recruited Hall up forward to strengthen their attack it made good sense to have Johnson along side of him. I would have thought that Johnson had viewed 2010 as his final year and the injury he got early in 2010 only confirmed the obvious.

In his final two years, Hird was a shadow of the footballer he was. It was over for him.

I dont think given what transpired off the field that Cousins was a likely prospect for re signing. Together with his dodgy hamstrings and his self publicity in his TV documentary, it made sense for him to go now.

Lloyd was the last of the traditional FFs and his output in 2009 was also well down on his previous efforts. In addition he was already looking at 4 to 6 weeks on the sidelines in 2010 so it was time to move on.

I agree WB are not much show this week and I think there is no risk in seeking to give the WB an inspirational boost by getting them to lift for the potential final game of a Club great. (eg Kirk with Sydney)

Fair on all parts RR.

I understand why WB took the punt on Johnson for 2010 with Hall coming in, unfortunatly for them just hasn't come off.

[H_T 3,042]

Fair on all parts RR.

I understand why WB took the punt on Johnson for 2010 with Hall coming in, unfortunatly for them just hasn't come off.

I'm a bit surprised that Johnson mentioned Eade had told him to go around again in 2011....

[MadAsHell 4,209]

I'm a bit surprised that Johnson mentioned Eade had told him to go around again in 2011....

That is very suprising.

I think everyone would agree that wouldn't of been a good idea.

[Felix 92]

That is very suprising.

I think everyone would agree that wouldn't of been a good idea.

IMO I think its a good idea, I hope he does go around another year or three, the longer he is in the longer he holds back a younger player. Benefits the MFC & co

[Steamin Demon 392]

I'm a bit surprised that Johnson mentioned Eade had told him to go around again in 2011....

Very suprised, The same attitude saw the demise of Neile Daniher.