Alternative Jumpers - St.K v Ess

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

Nope, you just don't understand how this stuff works in reality.

The term "match-worn" refers to the guernsey actually being worn in a match on the back of a competing player. For example, James McDonald comes off the field, takes off his guernsey, signs it, and it is then sold through the shop. That is what happens with those one-off guernseys. They are totally different to the sales of clash guernseys. These sit on the rack all year long, selling in very low volumes, much the same as the regular guernsey until the end of the year when the inevitable 'fire sale' of stock comes along and they're sold close to cost.

The time and cost spent on designing and manufacturing the guernseys is one thing, it is worth noting this isn't done by a bloke sitting at a desk at the club while munching on a sandwich, Reebok has to do it and there's lengthy consultation processes undertaken between Reebok & MFC, then MFC & AFL, then back to MFC & Reebok and round and round until we get what we have.

I'm not out of touch, I'm up to the minute.

You my friend are very very lost. I have 4 Heritage Round jumpers. I understand wTF match worn means. But you have gone off on your own little trip. We are referring to sales of heritage round jumpers. Can you understand that. Not the ones worn by players, the reproduction ones. And before you ask...yes they sell them. I have 4 of them as i stated. They sell them after the heritage round every year. Do YOU UNDERSATND THAT????? The theory would be the same with a clash strip. release a new one, hold off sales until the first week we wear them and order in low numbers.

Inner demon, please give up.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

PS. ID, I work in Design, so while you may have your marketing diploma and like generating feasibility analysis', your market knowledge and understanding of process leaves a lot to be desired.

[H_T 3,047]

PS. ID, I work in Design, so while you may have your marketing diploma and like generating feasibility analysis', your market knowledge and understanding of process leaves a lot to be desired.

I think you're underselling Inner Demon's knowledge. I also think you haven't taken in his information with regard to the lengthy consultation process between the club, AFL and manufacturer, you've suited yourself.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

I think you're underselling Inner Demon's knowledge. I also think you haven't taken in his information with regard to the lengthy consultation process between the club, AFL and manufacturer, you've suited yourself.

Thanks HT. That's your opinion. No facts presented however. About as baseless as ID's assumptions mate. Always looking to have your 2 cents worth if one of your chums is on the back foot. Let him present his knowledge. He still hasn't replied because he was caught out speaking about subject matter he is not familiar with. Thanks for the imput nonetheless.

[Inner Demon 1]

I'm intimately familiar with the subject matter.

I've tried to tell you that the guernsey sales through the shop are very low and offer an insignificant revenue stream. You've presented the argument that ordering in low numbers will maximise sales. This is not sound business logic. Just because you've sold 100% of a minimal inventory does not mean you have made a good profit. I have tried to explain to you that designing new clash guernseys is not as quick and simple as whipping up a design on Photoshop and sending it off to the printers. It is extremely time costly as an enormous amount of consultation has to take place between parties who are not working towards the same goals.

In summary, the time and cost associated with changing guernseys every year does not reap significant levels of revenue to justify the exercise. If you choose not to accept these facts, there is little more I can offer.

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

I'm intimately familiar with the subject matter.

I've tried to tell you that the guernsey sales through the shop are very low and offer an insignificant revenue stream. You've presented the argument that ordering in low numbers will maximise sales. This is not sound business logic. Just because you've sold 100% of a minimal inventory does not mean you have made a good profit. I have tried to explain to you that designing new clash guernseys is not as quick and simple as whipping up a design on Photoshop and sending it off to the printers. It is extremely time costly as an enormous amount of consultation has to take place between parties who are not working towards the same goals.

In summary, the time and cost associated with changing guernseys every year does not reap significant levels of revenue to justify the exercise. If you choose not to accept these facts, there is little more I can offer.

No facts. Opinion only. How long did it take last time we designed one? I will tell you...6 weeks mate. Geez, a lot of time and money went into that one I bet! What industry work are you basing your knowledge on/ Or are you just making it up as you go. What is this time spent liasing with AFL for approval cost you seem to know so much about? hmmm?

Also you have backed off the heritage round argument pretty quick. You made no sense there. Match worn garbage! pffft. You are making this up as you go mate.

Oh sorry and now its about sales again is it. I thought this was about the time and cost of producing a new jumper for next year. But wait...ID is back to sales figures. This debate is all over the place. You just want someone to confirm your 'thoughts' to make you feel good about yourself and tell you "geez you really know your stuff". Well you don't! So you will not be getting taht from me. First you argiued it wouldn't be done. Then it was about getting revenue. Then back to difficulty of cost and AFL approval and we are back to revenue not enough. Simple Fact ID. We need a clash jumper!!!!!! No matter what one it is we are required to produce one. The cost is THE BLOODY SAME MATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We currently pay to have one produced. The cost of producing a new one is THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT!!!! Tell me why it would change. Oh that's right, you imaginery consultation costs!!!

Edited May 19, 2010 by Balls_Grinter_14

[H_T 3,047]

Thanks HT. That's your opinion. No facts presented however. About as baseless as ID's assumptions mate. Always looking to have your 2 cents worth if one of your chums is on the back foot. Let him present his knowledge. He still hasn't replied because he was caught out speaking about subject matter he is not familiar with. Thanks for the imput nonetheless.

There you go again using the word "baseless". The facts were in the script of my last post, read carefully, your identity really is evident . ID has presented his knowledge. A few times now. It just keeps flying over your head, doesn't it ! Getting a bit hot under the collar aren't you with the exclamation marks ?

PS. It is "input" by the way. B)

[Guest Balls_Grinter_14]

your identity really is evident

Explain????If you think I am..may as well be him..keep you happy HT.

Answer my queries HT or ID. What's the cost. We currently produce a jumper, we would be producing a slightly different one. Where is the added cost. Please tell me...i can't wait to hear. Oh that's right, the manufacturer has to liase with the club and AFL. Must be in the millions in that case.

[H_T 3,047]

Explain????If you think I am..may as well be him..keep you happy HT.

Just like that hey, Redleg_24 ?

What does it feel like to take the mask off ? Better ?

I'll give you the mail, if you carry on like you have in the past, you won't last long.

Your behaviour on O'logy was a disgrace !

PS. I love "weeding."

Regarding the costs and timeframe for new jumpers, I'm no expert. I can only imagine that it would take time. Come to think of it I'm pretty sure Schwabby stated as much in the recent past. So I'm inclined to agree with ID & CS.

[Guest Redleg_24]

Just like that hey, Redleg_24 ?

What does it feel like to take the mask off ? Better ?

I'll give you the mail, if you carry on like you have in the past, you won't last long.

Your behaviour on O'logy was a disgrace !

PS. I love "weeding."

Regarding the costs and timeframe for new jumpers, I'm no expert. I can only imagine that it would take time. Come to think of it I'm pretty sure Schwabby stated as much in the recent past. So I'm inclined to agree with ID & CS.

Hahahhahaha!!! you made assumptions I am happy to play the role. It would keep you entertained I know mate! If you want to believe that I am the muppet, believe!!! I told someone here before, check my ISP addresses and emails and whatever else you like. It doesn't bother me who you think I am. But I know what you are accusing me of mate, so let's play the game. Is GG back at 'Ology, or is he flipping his lid on an EPL forum somewhere. bahhhaaahahaaaa

[Guest Redleg_24]

"Schwabby stated as much in the recent past"

Oh yeah where? When he was talking about getting blue and red dyes right? Wrong topic. There is no proof of what you are saying. Many Many clubs change jumpers around for preseason or clash strips each year. So it can't be that costly. hmmm>?

[H_T 3,047]

Hahahhahaha!!! you made assumptions I am happy to play the role. It would keep you entertained I know mate! If you want to believe that I am the muppet, believe!!! I told someone here before, check my ISP addresses and emails and whatever else you like. It doesn't bother me who you think I am. But I know what you are accusing me of mate, so let's play the game. Is GG back at 'Ology, or is he flipping his lid on an EPL forum somewhere. bahhhaaahahaaaa

No need to. B)

[Inner Demon 1]

No facts. Opinion only. How long did it take last time we designed one? I will tell you...6 weeks mate. Geez, a lot of time and money went into that one I bet! What industry work are you basing your knowledge on/ Or are you just making it up as you go. What is this time spent liasing with AFL for approval cost you seem to know so much about? hmmm?

Also you have backed off the heritage round argument pretty quick. You made no sense there. Match worn garbage! pffft. You are making this up as you go mate.

Oh sorry and now its about sales again is it. I thought this was about the time and cost of producing a new jumper for next year. But wait...ID is back to sales figures. This debate is all over the place. You just want someone to confirm your 'thoughts' to make you feel good about yourself and tell you "geez you really know your stuff". Well you don't! So you will not be getting taht from me. First you argiued it wouldn't be done. Then it was about getting revenue. Then back to difficulty of cost and AFL approval and we are back to revenue not enough. Simple Fact ID. We need a clash jumper!!!!!! No matter what one it is we are required to produce one. The cost is THE BLOODY SAME MATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We currently pay to have one produced. The cost of producing a new one is THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT!!!! Tell me why it would change. Oh that's right, you imaginery consultation costs!!!

Time is a cost. Considering the revenues are only in the very small thousands, that's not much time in order for this exercise to wind up being fruitless. The fact that there are so many aspects to what makes it a bad idea creating new clash guernseys every year speaks volumes.

It would appear I was mistaken on the one-off heritage guernseys only being match-worn, I genuinely don't recall these being sold as reproductions, but I will take your word for it. However, this as an argument for making small numbers of new clash guernseys every year still doesn't stack up.

You're wrong on the "6 week" thing by the way, that's just how long it takes for Reebok to actually get them in our shop once we've gone through the rigmarole of design, consultation and approval. Providing that is they don't delay us by 2 months again like they did a couple of years ago because they fell behind their schedules with all AFL clubs. Unfortunately I can't offer you a timeline for how long this whole process takes, because the very nature of it is that it unpredictable, and potentially lengthy. Hence the issue.

Of course we are required to produce a clash guernsey, we actually produce two so that we can wear our Red & Blue wherever possible as well as give our supporters another option for a guernsey to purchase. It took quite a bit of doing just to reach this point, to start all over again and mess around with the design over and over again would be foolish and inefficient and it won't happen.

Probably no need for the outburst.

[Guest Redleg_24]

Time is a cost. Considering the revenues are only in the very small thousands, that's not much time in order for this exercise to wind up being fruitless. The fact that there are so many aspects to what makes it a bad idea creating new clash guernseys every year speaks volumes.

It would appear I was mistaken on the one-off heritage guernseys only being match-worn, I genuinely don't recall these being sold as reproductions, but I will take your word for it. However, this as an argument for making small numbers of new clash guernseys every year still doesn't stack up.

You're wrong on the "6 week" thing by the way, that's just how long it takes for Reebok to actually get them in our shop once we've gone through the rigmarole of design, consultation and approval. Providing that is they don't delay us by 2 months again like they did a couple of years ago because they fell behind their schedules with all AFL clubs. Unfortunately I can't offer you a timeline for how long this whole process takes, because the very nature of it is that it unpredictable, and potentially lengthy. Hence the issue.

Of course we are required to produce a clash guernsey, we actually produce two so that we can wear our Red & Blue wherever possible as well as give our supporters another option for a guernsey to purchase. It took quite a bit of doing just to reach this point, to start all over again and mess around with the design over and over again would be foolish and inefficient and it won't happen.

Probably no need for the outburst.

Again, my initial suggestion made no mention of producing a new jumper every year. I said I thought we out to invest effort and time (which equals costs) into producing a 'strong clash jumper' which was more similiar to our traditional design. One that featured a 'V' etc. Do you recall this Inner Demon? No mention of a new one every year. That was a path you went down.

You say it took longer than six weeks. Do you remember the poll the MFC had up on melbournefc.com ?? Reebok submitted 'mock ups' to the clud. 1. Constipated demon 2. MFC traditional al carlton. We were asked to vote over 2 weeks. 4 weeks later that jumper was instores. I sh'it you not! Imagine that.

To mess around with teh design over and over again? Who said that. This whole clash jumper concept is brand new. We have had one clash design (well 2). You think consolidating a stronger one wouldn't be beneficial? One all fines are happier with, which resembles the traditional strip, which is reflective of our heritage?

Maybe it's just me, but I think this thread is lost. So I give up.

[Inner Demon 1]

You're late to the party, I began this conversation with Balls_Grinter_14 following his post:

Why wouldn't the club roll out a new preseason/clash strip every year ID? They make money from selling them. everyone wants something 'gimmicky'. I remember as a kid, having to have each new jumper each season if so far as much as the sponsor's logo changed.

This is the point I have been discussing.

To discuss the option of just changing the clash strip again once because you don't think the present one is "strong" enough is obviously a completely different topic for which the bulk of my points are not relevant. I apologise for that confusion.

I don't feel strongly enough about what the very occasional, inconvenient guernsey which is forced upon us looks like to get into a discussion about whether it should have a 'V', or whether it ought to include white, or why can't we just have the colours reversed etc etc so I will leave that mostly to others. I will contribute, however, that personally I think the Club did very well to win the battle to keep only Red & Blue in our main clash guernsey but we were obviously forced to have the white one also as the AFL in its infinite wisdom deems the first one to clash with Brisbane and someone else I forget. The AFL denied our request to have the inverted colours so please take that into account if anybody wishes to pursue that avenue again.

[Nasher 33,616]

You're late to the party, I began this conversation with Balls_Grinter_14 following his post:

They're one and the same tool person - he just changed his username.

[Guest Redleg_24]

You're late to the party, I began this conversation with Balls_Grinter_14 following his post:

This is the point I have been discussing.

To discuss the option of just changing the clash strip again once because you don't think the present one is "strong" enough is obviously a completely different topic for which the bulk of my points are not relevant. I apologise for that confusion.

I don't feel strongly enough about what the very occasional, inconvenient guernsey which is forced upon us looks like to get into a discussion about whether it should have a 'V', or whether it ought to include white, or why can't we just have the colours reversed etc etc so I will leave that mostly to others. I will contribute, however, that personally I think the Club did very well to win the battle to keep only Red & Blue in our main clash guernsey but we were obviously forced to have the white one also as the AFL in its infinite wisdom deems the first one to clash with Brisbane and someone else I forget. The AFL denied our request to have the inverted colours so please take that into account if anybody wishes to pursue that avenue again.

This seems reasonable. I think we have finally managed to get on the same page. I was unaware the AFL denied our request to reverse the colours. That seems very strange. The Red clash strip is almost identical to a inverted jumper. The AFL are strange though so it comes as no suprise. I am not questioning you here - but where did you get that from?

[Guest Redleg_24]

They're one and the same tool person - he just changed his username.

OMG. Here it comes. Abuse. Nasher leads the charge.

Is it ok for you to abuse posters as you are an admin? So you write the code then breach it and issue others with warnings? Seriously, you gotta wonder.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Redleg_24

[Nasher 33,616]

Is it ok for you to abuse posters as you are an admin? So you write the code then breach it and issue others with warnings? Seriously, you gotta wonder.

Yep, it's absolutely fine. We clear?

I don't write the code btw and I don't enforce that much either unless it's blatant and very offensive and even then I've been slammed for inaction in the past! My role here is primarily technical.

If another mod sees my post as inappropriate I'm sure he or she will delete it. You are a bit of a tool though.

[Inner Demon 1]

This seems reasonable. I think we have finally managed to get on the same page. I was unaware the AFL denied our request to reverse the colours. That seems very strange. The Red clash strip is almost identical to a inverted jumper. The AFL are strange though so it comes as no suprise. I am not questioning you here - but where did you get that from?

Much of what I post on club related matters comes from numerous conversations I've had with club staff of various shapes and sizes over a number of years being involved with the club. I don't have one 'source' or anything exciting like that, I just have chats about various subjects that interest me with people at the footy club and try to gain as good an understanding about how the place works as I can. Where possible I try to share what I've learned without betraying any confidences.

Christ knows why the AFL had a problem with an 'inverse colours' strip but saw their way clear to approve our red & blue demon. It doesn't seem as if anybody can really explain the thought processes of AFL administrators as it pertained to matters like this, not even they themselves...

Incidentally, I found it kind of odd scrolling back looking for Balls_Grinter_14's question about having new clash guernseys every year to find that he had somehow edited one of Redleg_24's posts...

[titan_uranus 25,020]

OMG. Here it comes. Abuse. Nasher leads the charge.

Is it ok for you to abuse posters as you are an admin? So you write the code then breach it and issue others with warnings? Seriously, you gotta wonder.

Why did you change your name, anyway?

Embarrassed to have to put your name to the 'argument' you've been losing in this thread?

[Vagg 2,439]

Well done, guys! Why turn on the TV to watch a Soap Opera, when you can get it all, right here, on good ole Demonland!

This thread has had it all. It started out as a legitimate rant against Essendon & the AFL for the joke of a clash jumper that Essendon has gotten away with. It has since done the rounds with lots of talk about our own clash jumper. It also degenerated into a brawl between some of our resident markeing "experts". Now, it even has some mid-thread changes of identity!

Love it!

Sure added a bit of spice to an otherwise slow Thursday arvo in my office!

Oh. And by the way. GO DEES!!

[H_T 3,047]

Incidentally, I found it kind of odd scrolling back looking for Balls_Grinter_14's question about having new clash guernseys every year to find that he had somehow edited one of Redleg_24's posts...

Whilst it may seem odd, it can be explained. Anything that you replied to of "Balls_Grinter_14" will still have this quoted as "Balls_Grinter_14" from that particular time. From the moment he changed to Redleg_24 anything quoted will appear from Redleg_24. The username in the left column will remain the same as Redleg_24. Unless of course, he changes name again.

So in this case he would have been Balls_Grinter_14 at the time of edit.

Crazy I know...

Hope this helps.

[Ash35 425]

Can anyone help me out.

When did Adelaide start playing home games at Launceston?

Especially against Hawthorn. How foolish, surely they would have an advantage playing in Adelaide.

Anyway, since Hawthorn are such a strong club that would never take a backward step, I am assuming that cos they wore their away jumpers Saturday and Adelaide were in their tradition home strips that it must have been the Crows home game.

Or maybe some common sense was used.

[H_T 3,047]

Can anyone help me out.

When did Adelaide start playing home games at Launceston?

Especially against Hawthorn. How foolish, surely they would have an advantage playing in Adelaide.

Anyway, since Hawthorn are such a strong club that would never take a backward step, I am assuming that cos they wore their away jumpers Saturday and Adelaide were in their tradition home strips that it must have been the Crows home game.

Or maybe some common sense was used.

Never assume anything.