Trade First Round Draft Pick for Ruckman

[paddo 0]

Hi guys,

Haven't posted on here for a while. I'm really pleased with the direction MFC is heading, and we are blessed with young talent right across the field.

But there is still one area of great concern, and that is our ruck division. Jamar has been magnificent, but for the sake of longevity we can't continue playing him 85-90% of the game in the ruck. I am a big fan of Russian's, but he has had injury concerns in the past and it is a matter of when, not if he gets injured should we continue to play him in this role.

Jamar is currently our MVP and he needs to be protected!!

My assessment of our rucks:

- Spencer (not mobile enough, delist)

- Meesen (injury-plagued, delist)

- Johnson (many opportunities, delist)

- Martin (better used as a KPB or KPF)

- Gawn (needs 3-4 years)

We have used the draft to great effect in recent years, plugging many holes in our list.

However, this year I propose we TRADE our first round pick (somewhere between Picks 10 and 20 I'd imagine due to GC17) to acquire a young, up-and-coming ruckman capable of stepping straight into the team.

Possibilities:

McEvoy (STK)

Goldstein (KANG)

White (SYD)

Thoughts??

[satyricon 267]

Hi guys,

Haven't posted on here for a while. I'm really pleased with the direction MFC is heading, and we are blessed with young talent right across the field.

But there is still one area of great concern, and that is our ruck division. Jamar has been magnificent, but for the sake of longevity we can't continue playing him 85-90% of the game in the ruck. I am a big fan of Russian's, but he has had injury concerns in the past and it is a matter of when, not if he gets injured should we continue to play him in this role.

Jamar is currently our MVP and he needs to be protected!!

My assessment of our rucks:

- Spencer (not mobile enough, delist)

- Meesen (injury-plagued, delist)

- Johnson (many opportunities, delist)

- Martin (better used as a KPB or KPF)

- Gawn (needs 3-4 years)

We have used the draft to great effect in recent years, plugging many holes in our list.

However, this year I propose we TRADE our first round pick (somewhere between Picks 10 and 20 I'd imagine due to GC17) to acquire a young, up-and-coming ruckman capable of stepping straight into the team.

Possibilities:

McEvoy (STK)

Goldstein (KANG)

White (SYD)

Thoughts??

My thoughts...completely wrong....Spencer needs a year or two more, both PJ and Stef Martin can pinch hit in the ruck, Gawn will develop quicker, Fitzpatrick will also be able to ruck, Dunn and Newton can pinch hit against lesser teams (if there is such a thing), if we can get Meesen right he can be good, he is still early 20's as well....so about 7 or 8 options

[e25 5]

Thoughts?

I think it is absurd to want to speculate on this sort of thing before Round 5.

A week is a long time, let alone a season.

Martin might develop into a competent tap ruckman.

Gawn might recover and develop a lot quicker than expected.

Spencer might, just like Cox, go from a guy who looks like hurting himself running laps into an elite ruckman.

I don't see what the point of allocating a 1st round draft pick ahead of time is all about...

Have we spent that long looking to the future during lean years that we have become unable to appreciate and focus on the present..?

[Jaded No More 68,974]

Ruckmen are not important enough to waste first round picks on.

Sure Jamar has been crucial to our success this year, but guess what, he was a rookie... as was Sandilands, and Cox and Jolly (?).

For a ruckman to be worth a first round pick they'd have to have a lot of other strings to their bow, like Kreuzer and Naitanui

[H_T 3,049]

I tend to agree with the likes of Rogue regarding a ruckman. His views can be found on the Forum and on O'logy.

I certainly don't think we should trade a first round draft pick for someone. A late pick (ie fourth round) or rookie is my contention for obtaining a ruckman for the time being whilst the side is still in development mode.

We've obtained Spencer through the rookie list and drafted Gawn from pick 35 and Fitzpatrick at pick 51. Jamar is an excellent example of a ruckman established through taking time to develop. He can effectively take on the best in the business now.

I've just recently posted earlier today my thoughts on a replacement for PJ (dependant upon where he is at season's end ie. form/contract). I'd much rather look at a prospect that was being held back at another club who is on their list - a young up & comer with already some development at an AFL club.

Ie. Youngster Will Sullivan at West Coast, recently was upgraded to the main list from the rookie list. With Naitanui & Cox there it might be difficult to find a gig on making the 22 - as Seaby found out. Might be an option (just throwing up).

[jacey 333]

Possibilities:

McEvoy (STK)

Goldstein (KANG)

White (SYD)

Thoughts??

I would hate to trade a first round pick on a ruckman. Prefer to get them on the cheap.

McEvoy. I like him but i think the Saints hierarchy do too. Will cost. Same with Goldstein and White will cost a Morton or a Grimes. Think he'll be as good as Tippett.

Some rucks on the cheap.

Maybe a David Hale. Since that 8 goal burst, he's being shunted FF. Maybe get him on the cheap and give him a free run at ruck and rotate with Jamar in the forward line. Maybe a second rounder with GC rape, 2nd rounder might be 30's.

Jason Laycock. I haven't seen a whole lot of bumbres but i've seen him play some really good games. It's possible i've seen his 3 good games and missed 40 [censored] ones though. Cheap you would think.

Jonathon Griffin. Promising early few games. Would not have a clue where the hell he's at.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

No.

And if we delist Meesen (certainty) and PJ (likely), we wont be also cutting Spencer who is raw and needs time.

Any chance we might recontract Jamar and develop one of our own? Maybe even use our first pick to get the best available youngster?

[paddo 0]

No.

And if we delist Meesen (certainty) and PJ (likely), we wont be also cutting Spencer who is raw and needs time.

Any chance we might recontract Jamar and develop one of our own? Maybe even use our first pick to get the best available youngster?

Rhino, don't you think our list is at a stage now where we should be using the draft to fill holes in our list?? The best available youngster may very well be another midfielder. Do we really need to add to our midfield?? I think we need to be looking out for the best available KPF or ruckman, and if that means trading for one then it's probably a viable option

Edited April 21, 2010 by paddo

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

My assessment of our rucks:

- Spencer (not mobile enough, delist)

- Meesen (injury-plagued, delist)

- Johnson (many opportunities, delist)

- Martin (better used as a KPB or KPF)

- Gawn (needs 3-4 years)

Rubbish post paddo.

The first three above are ALL things that have been said for years about Jamar. And your solution is to go down the Collingwood/Carlton course and spend up big on a ruckman that's done a lot in his formative years but has proven nothing in his prime years?

Spencer is being groomed as a career ruckman and will not be delisted. Meesen is in trouble due to injury, but like Jamar, will be given a couple more years at a club. Might as well be MFC. Johnson has beaten Cox and Sandilands at full fitness in the last 12 months. As a second-foil to Jamar he would be our first selected at the moment. He will not be delisted. Martin you have right, they like him and he'll be retained for things OTHER than rucking. Gawn is going to be given til his mid-twenties.

What was it a great coach said once? A small player has five minutes to impress me. A tall one has five years.

Our ruck situation isn't as dire as people suggest. Our SECOND ruck situation is only dire because we have nothing but injured players and kids.

Bear with them. If we all jumped off the bandwagon and traded at the first sign of trouble, we wouldn't have Jamar, and wouldn't be 2-2 and staring down the prospect of 4-4.

[Summer Blease 0]

Doesn’t make sense. If we do that, we won’t receive said ruckman until next year, meaning we are in the same boat for the remainder of this year. Add to that the fact that barring injury we will have Meeson back, Spencer would have developed some more- it would be silly to recruit a young ruckman at this stage. And to trade a first round draft pick for it would be criminal.

I don’t think it’s going to take Gawn 3-4 years to develop, think it’s just a matter of him getting his body right to go. When the body is right the boys size will take care of the rest-so to speak. The kid is massive, and NOT unco. I have high hopes for this lad. An absolute steal!!

[satyricon 267]

Doesn’t make sense. If we do that, we won’t receive said ruckman until next year, meaning we are in the same boat for the remainder of this year. Add to that the fact that barring injury we will have Meeson back, Spencer would have developed some more- it would be silly to recruit a young ruckman at this stage. And to trade a first round draft pick for it would be criminal.

I don’t think it’s going to take Gawn 3-4 years to develop, think it’s just a matter of him getting his body right to go. When the body is right the boys size will take care of the rest-so to speak. The kid is massive, and NOT unco. I have high hopes for this lad. An absolute steal!!

Just an aside on Max Gawn, watched him running at JO and he is not slow....also entertained himself and a couple of others in rehab with a little kicking drill where he was catching them one handed palm out......

[praha 11,240]

I think Jamar is a perfect example of how not to jump the gun too early. You're saying players like Spencer and Martin aren't good enough, but three years ago (heck, even 10 months ago) people were saying Jamar wasn't up to it.

You need to realise we're still 3-4 years off being a superior side (if ever). By that stage, players like Gawn, Martin and even Meeson might be raring to go.

As for PJ, he's had a few good games.

[Stigga 25]

I think Jamar is a perfect example of how not to jump the gun too early. You're saying players like Spencer and Martin aren't good enough, but three years ago (heck, even 10 months ago) people were saying Jamar wasn't up to it.

You need to realise we're still 3-4 years off being a superior side (if ever). By that stage, players like Gawn, Martin and even Meeson might be raring to go.

As for PJ, he's had a few good games.

Good Call.

I think/hope Jamar can inspire the rest of them.

I like Spencer, once they sought his kicking out he will be a solid deputy.

I like his aggression and attack at the man and the footy. Plus he's only 21yo.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rhino, don't you think our list is at a stage now where we should be using the draft to fill holes in our list?? The best available youngster may very well be another midfielder. Do we really need to add to our midfield?? I think we need to be looking out for the best available KPF or ruckman, and if that means trading for one then it's probably a viable option

People confuse quantity with quality. Having a number of midfielder options does not equate to th quality we need.

Paddo this topic has been done ad mauseam on this site. Just say we had pick 5 in the draft this year and on the best available the best big man is pick 20, would you spend that pick on the ruckman given the inherent risks with talls?

And drafting a ruckman now wont pay fruit until 3 or 4 years. And if we trade for a ruck why would we give pick 5 for someone to play 2nd fiddle to Jamar? Makes no sense.

[Felix 92]

- Meesen (injury-plagued, delist)

Thoughts??

.. Was a waste of a pick, Zero games in 08, 4 games in 09, and out for this season. DEAD WOOD.

Michael Newton 13 games in 3 seasons, FFS.

Why did MFC waste 2 rookie pick on these 2 useless hacks?

[satyricon 267]

.. Was a waste of a pick, Zero games in 08, 4 games in 09, and out for this season. DEAD WOOD.

Michael Newton 13 games in 3 seasons, FFS.

Why did MFC waste 2 rookie pick on these 2 useless hacks?

If you watch Cam Schwab's Whiteboard today, integrity, Newton has a contract we have honoured it, Meesen has absolutely rotten luck with injuries, he has a lot of empathy and sympathy around the club, I have spoken to him, he is absolutely gutted, feels he owes club....I am proud that MFC is showing the way with the treatment of players..we also make the hard calls when necessary but again we do it with integrity

Edited April 21, 2010 by satyricon

[The Chazz 4,077]

.. Was a waste of a pick, Zero games in 08, 4 games in 09, and out for this season. DEAD WOOD.

Michael Newton 13 games in 3 seasons, FFS.

Why did MFC waste 2 rookie pick on these 2 useless hacks?

It was an agreement Sturmmann. I am happy to see Newton gone at the end of the year, and most likely Meesen will go to (which is unfortunate because I don't think he had a greater opportunity as he needed). I'm glad the Club didn't shaft these 2 blokes by not fulfilling their side of the agreement.

In regards to the ruck stocks - I would love to see Gawn play the last 3 or so games this year if he can. It will give him the greatest sniff and make him bloody hungry for 2011. Then I would be happy to have him and Jamar playing from Round 1 2011, and keep playing Gawn until either he needs a rest, or isn't performing (if the likes of PJ or sadly Spencer are performing well in the reserves).

I know the young, big kids need time to develop, but I can't help but look at Nic Nat and Kreuzer and think "just play the buggers if they earn a spot - regardless of how much we are trying to protect them".

[Bonkers 994]

I'd rather get rid of Newton & Hughes and possibly another and recruit a rookie ruck to develop. Most ruckmen on AFL lists are spuds, it's very rare to be able to pick any quality ruckman from the draft. The only successes I can think of are Natanui & Kruezer picks 2 & 1 respectively. We could alternatively go down the path that Collingwood have and give up a first rounder for someone like Jolly, I'd rather the club didn't.

All we need is someone to pinch hit for Jamar in certain games, not really worth giving up a high draft pick for IMO.

[DeeSpencer 26,081]

I'm not too keen on giving away a good pick for a ruckman, but I'd seriously look at big White from Sydney. He could be a suitable back up for Jamar and then the big body up forward to let other players develop around.

All I know is that at the end of the year we will have to make a call on some of our big guys. Hopefully by then they have sealed their fate one way or another. I still have some faith in Spencer, he has really nice size and can win a hit out, he has some potential. I've really gone cold on Martin as he had a big chance leading up to round 1 to seal his placed and failed. I'd love to see Meesen get back, I like what I saw from him in his games last year.

[Adzman 2,154]

I don't want the dees to create a "cameron wood" type trade. If a ruckman is worth spending a first pick on in the draft then sure, bt as for trying to lour another ruckman from another club it always comes with the risk that they just might not click in this team. developing our own makes sure they fit our system.

Oh, gets Jamar's signature on paper for another 2 years.

Verdict is out on the rest, but we have much footy to play before making any bold moves or predictions for their futures.

[jayceebee31 761]

Hi guys,

Haven't posted on here for a while. I'm really pleased with the direction MFC is heading, and we are blessed with young talent right across the field.

But there is still one area of great concern, and that is our ruck division. Jamar has been magnificent, but for the sake of longevity we can't continue playing him 85-90% of the game in the ruck. I am a big fan of Russian's, but he has had injury concerns in the past and it is a matter of when, not if he gets injured should we continue to play him in this role.

Jamar is currently our MVP and he needs to be protected!!

My assessment of our rucks:

- Spencer (not mobile enough, delist)

- Meesen (injury-plagued, delist)

- Johnson (many opportunities, delist)

- Martin (better used as a KPB or KPF)

- Gawn (needs 3-4 years)

We have used the draft to great effect in recent years, plugging many holes in our list.

However, this year I propose we TRADE our first round pick (somewhere between Picks 10 and 20 I'd imagine due to GC17) to acquire a young, up-and-coming ruckman capable of stepping straight into the team.

Possibilities:

McEvoy (STK)

Goldstein (KANG)

White (SYD)

Thoughts??

AGREE- (as per in my thread list changes-I believe we should be looking at another ruckman.

However,in answering this thread- I like Rhys Stanley 200 cm at St Kilda, Hampson, Shaun 20110021.03.88 from Carlton,Laycock at Essendon(however injured alot) to name a few more.Charman from Brisbane is my choice- tough and will give our young one's confidence.

Edited April 21, 2010 by jayceebee31

[Keyser Söze 0]

Oh dear...

[Ungarie boy 233]

With early draft picks you should always get the best player available, regardless of what position they play. If you then have too much quality of one type i.e midfielders, rucks, tall forwards, etc; you will then have far greater flexibility at the trade table to bring in someone to address your weaknesses. A good example of this is the Maloney/Ottens deal.

Another benefit is, that whilst your drafted "Best Player" is progressing quickly, you have more time to assess players perceived as risky, develop on other teams lists for a couple of years before striking.

As for rucks, there's no need to get to worked up about it. Melbourne has a good one in Jamar, and couple kids developing. The thing with rucks though is that if you are serious about them you can always get one from another club - normally one that is starved of opportunity; Melbourne's Daren Jolley is a good example or an aging ruckman who will soon be pushed out i.e Geelong's Stephen King. Most clubs have at least a couple of rucks plus a couple of kids developing on their list at any give time - inveitably more than a few clubs will be successful; creating limited opportunity behind their number one.

One of Clark/Leunburger/Charman would likely be looking for more game time (I favour Charman as his toughness would be ideal support for a team full of kids; and Brisbane would likely to fight harder to keep the other two younger players). North has at least 3 ruckman fighting for one and half positions.

Note if a ruckman is looking for more game time elsewhere - it normally means they are looking to leave the club and can therefore come cheap(er) or via the draft(s).

[jabberwocky 2,301]

We are still not a "developed" side. When we are are we could consider trading for a particular position. Right now however we are best to develop our own rather that pay over the odds for a developed one

[Deeoldfart 8,061]

If you watch Cam Schwab's Whiteboard today, integrity, Newton has a contract we have honoured it, Meesen has absolutely rotten luck with injuries, he has a lot of empathy and sympathy around the club, I have spoken to him, he is absolutely gutted, feels he owes club....I am proud that MFC is showing the way with the treatment of players..we also make the hard calls when necessary but again we do it with integrity

Exactly ..... its part of the culture we are building. Players will want to play for and remain at at Melbourne BECAUSE we are Melbourne.