Experienced 22 vs Hawks. Time to win!

[burn in hell 0]

We will have an experienced side to take on the Hawks. Our forward line looks strong, hard and capable, our onball section is tough and dedicated and our backline is rock solid. Our rookies will play off the bench, this will bring some raw excitement to the game. We are tough, we are fit, we are strong and we are ready to start winning. No more ballshit talk of potential. Lets hit the Hawks hard. CARN THE DEMONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

games played (**)

ff- Bate(68) Jamar (73) Petterd (29)

hf- Green(239) Miller(127) Jones (70)

c- Davey(119) Moloney(90) Bennell (16)

hb- J.Macdonald(80) Frawley(40) Bruce (203)

fb- Cheney(12) Warnock(38) Rivers (90)

fol-Martin(27) Grimes (16) McDonald(235)

int-Trengove(0) Scully(0) Bartram(59) Strauss(0)

[stranga 328]

Yeah thats a gun forward line, may kick a record score you never know!!

Hope the boys come out firing in all seriousness, we need a positive performance. Some agression may compensate for our lack of skill level and hopefully cause some turnovers the other way.

[satyricon 267]

We will have an experienced side to take on the Hawks. Our forward line looks strong, hard and capable, our onball section is tough and dedicated and our backline is rock solid. Our rookies will play off the bench, this will bring some raw excitement to the game. We are tough, we are fit, we are strong and we are ready to start winning. No more ballshit talk of potential. Lets hit the Hawks hard. CARN THE DEMONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

games played (**)

ff- Bate(68) Jamar (73) Petterd (29)

hf- Green(239) Miller(127) Jones (70)

c- Davey(119) Moloney(90) Bennell (16)

hb- J.Macdonald(80) Frawley(40) Bruce (203)

fb- Cheney(12) Warnock(38) Rivers (90)

fol-Martin(27) Grimes (16) McDonald(235)

int-Trengove(0) Scully(0) Bartram(59) Strauss(0)

I think Bail will be in place of Bartram, and Jim Stynes in his phone message made only mention of 2 debutants, but that could just be smoke and mirrors, so Strauss is ok

[Lost Highway 31]

We will have an experienced side to take on the Hawks. Our forward line looks strong, hard and capable, our onball section is tough and dedicated and our backline is rock solid. Our rookies will play off the bench, this will bring some raw excitement to the game. We are tough, we are fit, we are strong and we are ready to start winning. No more ballshit talk of potential. Lets hit the Hawks hard. CARN THE DEMONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

games played (**)

ff- Bate(68) Jamar (73) Petterd (29)

hf- Green(239) Miller(127) Jones (70)

c- Davey(119) Moloney(90) Bennell (16)

hb- J.Macdonald(80) Frawley(40) Bruce (203)

fb- Cheney(12) Warnock(38) Rivers (90)

fol-Martin(27) Grimes (16) McDonald(235)

int-Trengove(0) Scully(0) Bartram(59) Strauss(0)

Rather optimistic, if you ask me. You're exaggerating the abilities of a forward line that's struggled to get to double figures for years, including this pre-season.

Our genuinely 'experienced' players have been little more than good honest journeymen over the last two years, with the possible exceptions of Davey and Sylvia, who's out.

Selecting Jamar at FF and Bartram even in the 22 is not good sense. Spencer would be a better bet than Martin in the ruck, and Jamar should be first ruck despite the (possibly, no probably, illusory) impression he created against Carlton last year. I suppose you're hoping to take advantage of Hawthorn's mediocre defence with a tall FF. As a bounce ruckman Jamar's in the top bracket. Martin will struggle to match even the rookie spuds Hawthorn play in the ruck. If he's in the team Martin should be in defence. I'd much prefer to see Jamar or Spencer in the pocket when resting beside Green at FF.

I'd have Maric ahead of Bartram any day; some are keen on McKenzie, although I'm not sure whether both he and Spencer could come out of the rookie list.

[burn in hell 0]

Rather optimistic, if you ask me. You're exaggerating the abilities of a forward line that's struggled to get to double figures for years, including this pre-season.

Our genuinely 'experienced' players have been little more than good honest journeymen over the last two years, with the possible exceptions of Davey and Sylvia, who's out.

Selecting Jamar at FF and Bartram even in the 22 is not good sense. Spencer would be a better bet than Martin in the ruck, and Jamar should be first ruck despite the (possibly, no probably, illusory) impression he created against Carlton last year. I suppose you're hoping to take advantage of Hawthorn's mediocre defence with a tall FF. As a bounce ruckman Jamar's in the top bracket. Martin will struggle to match even the rookie spuds Hawthorn play in the ruck. If he's in the team Martin should be in defence. I'd much prefer to see Jamar or Spencer in the pocket when resting beside Green at FF.

I'd have Maric ahead of Bartram any day; some are keen on McKenzie, although I'm not sure whether both he and Spencer could come out of the rookie list.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

I agree with some of this. I want Davey back on the forward line and Jones in the midfield. I dont think the rucks can change in the pocket that effectively - the idea of "resting" on the forward line forwards need to put in multiple presentations (leads / sprints) and that can be more tiring than running at a steady pace from contest to contest. You end up with an unrested ruckman and a tired forward. I havent seen a game where martin did much but I will give thought to him developing as a tall marking option. I risk censure for this notion but I am playing Juice - I know the complaints but as a forward he needs week in week out game time to build his confidence and that of the team that passes to him - I think we want to give him every chance this year particularly while Jurrah, Tapscott, Watts, and Fitzpatrick or injured or too immature. Its Newton's his last chance this year. Also I cant endorse Miller at CHF he cant kick more than 40 m accurately so his posessions leading up beyond the 50m mark are still asking for another inside 50. Remember with our forwards they eek out a living on poor delivery in quality and quantity terms. I like Miller for his work rate and tough stuff and a reaosnable set shot from within 40.

[rusty_kingswood 0]

We will have an experienced side to take on the Hawks. Our forward line looks strong, hard and capable, our onball section is tough and dedicated and our backline is rock solid. Our rookies will play off the bench, this will bring some raw excitement to the game. We are tough, we are fit, we are strong and we are ready to start winning. No more ballshit talk of potential. Lets hit the Hawks hard. CARN THE DEMONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing like a bit of round 1 optimism.

[burn in hell 0]

Jamar must be given a chance at full forward after kicking 5 against the Blues,He is a very strong mark, is a good kick and can definetly take Gibson so as to let Bate take 3rd string backman. Petterd is good up forward as his pre-season form suggests, Bate is a very good forward, Miller is under-rated and much needed, Green is an A-Grade player, and Jones is 21 years old and may develop into a Chapman, I reckon he's a champ. Martin can swap to the full forward line, however, I have not seen Spenser do anything up forward.

Bartram killed it against the bombers in the pracky match, is dogged and hard nosed, will be able to tag mitchell and Hodge. Maric did not have a good pre-season, must proove himself in the 2's. Bartram is better than McKenzie. Green is too valuable up the field, getting the ball into our forward 50, and kicking long goals.

Martin will get confidence from taking on the hawks dud ruckmen. Martin has plenty of upside (he played [censored] against the weagles tho) but I reckon a dominant performance against the dawks may prove invaluable. He has a basketball background and sometimes looks a little scared, he needs to get over that. we need Paul Johnson back. He is way under-rated.

[armstrong35 262]

Jamar must be given a chance at full forward after kicking 5 against the Blues,He is a very strong mark, is a good kick and can definetly take Gibson so as to let Bate take 3rd string backman. Petterd is good up forward as his pre-season form suggests, Bate is a very good forward, Miller is under-rated and much needed, Green is an A-Grade player, and Jones is 21 years old and may develop into a Chapman, I reckon he's a champ. Martin can swap to the full forward line, however, I have not seen Spenser do anything up forward.

Bartram killed it against the bombers in the pracky match, is dogged and hard nosed, will be able to tag mitchell and Hodge. Maric did not have a good pre-season, must proove himself in the 2's. Bartram is better than McKenzie. Green is too valuable up the field, getting the ball into our forward 50, and kicking long goals.

Martin will get confidence from taking on the hawks dud ruckmen. Martin has plenty of upside (he played [censored] against the weagles tho) but I reckon a dominant performance against the dawks may prove invaluable. He has a basketball background and sometimes looks a little scared, he needs to get over that. we need Paul Johnson back. He is way under-rated.

agreed, people dont like miller but when the game is on he can kick at least 4 goals. when the game isnt ours he might not even kick one but sometimes you have to expect that when you are not getting a good ball kicked to you. when the mids start working together and kicking a good ball in then we will see improvement in the forward line.

this will then make our forward line have confidence in the mid and could start leading knowing the mid will get the ball. it will create a little bit of play which the dees need to do.

[Keyser Söze 0]

I'd rather have Jamar dominate the ruck, force-feeding our midfielders.

Often if you win the midfield battle you win the game.

The more times we pump it forward, the more goals we will kick, no matter who is up there.

[satyricon 267]

Jamar must be given a chance at full forward after kicking 5 against the Blues,He is a very strong mark, is a good kick and can definetly take Gibson so as to let Bate take 3rd string backman. Petterd is good up forward as his pre-season form suggests, Bate is a very good forward, Miller is under-rated and much needed, Green is an A-Grade player, and Jones is 21 years old and may develop into a Chapman, I reckon he's a champ. Martin can swap to the full forward line, however, I have not seen Spenser do anything up forward.

Bartram killed it against the bombers in the pracky match, is dogged and hard nosed, will be able to tag mitchell and Hodge. Maric did not have a good pre-season, must proove himself in the 2's. Bartram is better than McKenzie. Green is too valuable up the field, getting the ball into our forward 50, and kicking long goals.

Martin will get confidence from taking on the hawks dud ruckmen. Martin has plenty of upside (he played [censored] against the weagles tho) but I reckon a dominant performance against the dawks may prove invaluable. He has a basketball background and sometimes looks a little scared, he needs to get over that. we need Paul Johnson back. He is way under-rated.

It was actually Bell who did a lot of the tagging in nthe Bombers match, Bartram did not much at all, have been a fan of his, but doesn't seem to have improved and the game may be passing him by. I mentioned Bail as the bench player, he seems to be developing and this is what Bailey is looking for. He is also a utility, is quite strong bodied, wou;dn't surprise me if he got a bit of tagging job if it is required

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I'd rather have Jamar dominate the ruck, force-feeding our midfielders.

Often if you win the midfield battle you win the game.

The more times we pump it forward, the more goals we will kick, no matter who is up there.

agree totally, under normal circumstances we would be facing a shelacking in the midfield and that would be the end of the story - this time we have got a bit lucky and not only are they missing TWO ruckmen, our one, for once, is actually somewhat competent in the 'new' Jamar... combine this with the fact they are missing Sewell, Burgoyne, Bateman, Rioli (and possibly Lewis?) the opportunity looms to take them to the cleaners in the midfield, remember we have Grimes, Scully and Trengove in there now, all of whom I have confidence in. Also at our advantage is no Franklin, meaning if we keep Roughhead quiet, which I can back KnockKnock and Chip to do, their somewhat limited supply should not yield a big score... where we fall down is putting the goals on the board, the only way it will happen is if all of Petterd, Bate and Miller can manage 2-4 each and the midfield chips in it a bit, look for scully to be left to his devices and just keep running all day, finding a couple of opportunities to score from a fast break situation.

critical to our chances is how we start the match. We have seemed to have this problem for about a decade, turning up cold and conceding a bunch of goals in the first 20 minutes then playing catch up all day. We saw this happen badly in the PS against Freo and the Bombers, and I think we were 3-down against the crows before putting 7 in a row on

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Who says that Bateman is missing?

What is the source? My brother the Hawks fan is questionning this.

Cheers

agree totally, under normal circumstances we would be facing a shelacking in the midfield and that would be the end of the story - this time we have got a bit lucky and not only are they missing TWO ruckmen, our one, for once, is actually somewhat competent in the 'new' Jamar... combine this with the fact they are missing Sewell, Burgoyne, Bateman, Rioli (and possibly Lewis?) the opportunity looms to take them to the cleaners in the midfield, remember we have Grimes, Scully and Trengove in there now, all of whom I have confidence in. Also at our advantage is no Franklin, meaning if we keep Roughhead quiet, which I can back KnockKnock and Chip to do, their somewhat limited supply should not yield a big score... where we fall down is putting the goals on the board, the only way it will happen is if all of Petterd, Bate and Miller can manage 2-4 each and the midfield chips in it a bit, look for scully to be left to his devices and just keep running all day, finding a couple of opportunities to score from a fast break situation.

critical to our chances is how we start the match. We have seemed to have this problem for about a decade, turning up cold and conceding a bunch of goals in the first 20 minutes then playing catch up all day. We saw this happen badly in the PS against Freo and the Bombers, and I think we were 3-down against the crows before putting 7 in a row on

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Who says that Bateman is missing?

What is the source? My brother the Hawks fan is questionning this.

Cheers

he's definitely out suspended, 100% sure

[satyricon 267]

he's definitely out suspended, 100% sure

I am 100% sure C&B is right

[Keyser Söze 0]

I am 100% sure C&B is right

Link: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/matthew-lloyd-cops-four-match-ban/story-e6freck3-1225767970808

Bateman suspended for 1 week.

Being the last game of last season he has to serve his suspension Round 1.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Link: http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/matthew-lloyd-cops-four-match-ban/story-e6freck3-1225767970808

Bateman suspended for 1 week.

Being the last game of last season he has to serve his suspension Round 1.

Terrific thanks - this will make my brothers day!

[GOLF 13]

Comes down to the forward line. My preferred FL would be taller and younger. Watts, Fitzpatrick and Jurrah, with maybe a resting ruckman (no, I don't think FitzP will be a serious ruck option). But FitzP is still a stick insect, and Watts and Jurrah are injured. In the circumstances, can we do any better than the suggested lineup?

[Lost Highway 31]

Jamar at FF and Martin in the ruck is foolish. Martin has proved himself reasonably adept in defence, where he has a bit of pace for a very tall bloke and can take a mark without the need to turn around with it like a forward does; he's shown NOTHING anywhere else. Jamar is one of the best bounce rucks going and is mobile enough to take a couple of marks near the goals. The whole idea is to assert dominance over the opposition wherever possible - the most obvious place is in the ruck. Jamar at FF is speculative, regardless of one good haul in a dead match, and Martin in the ruck is even more so. I just can't see the point of these suggestions for a match against a weakened opposition in a round when upsets invariably occur. Imagine if Hawthorn, with its anonymous novice ruck brigade actually won the ruck duels. I can't bear to think about it.

I absolutely agree that Miller at CHF is too far out. I'd rate his accuracy limit at 25 or 30 metres, not 40 - 40m is his outer limit, period. I just hate the thought of again seeing Miller getting the ball near the wing and then turning towards goal - there's only one conclusion: a turnover. The only play he can handle that far out is the quick handpass to someone going past, without even glancing around to see how far out he is. On the evidence of the last three years, Melbourne players don't run hard or often enough for this to be a percentage play. Besides, it requires at least two players to make position at the same time, the one taking Miller's handball and the one further down the field inside the 50 or near it. Well, maybe I'm wrong, and things like this have been worked on, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Still, Miller does offer grit and toughness and will make a contest, even kick a couple from close range.

Playing Bartram would result in the team having too much of the 'same old' look about it. I would group him with Bell for delivery and awareness. Maybe Maric hasn't set the world on fire in the pre-season, but I sense that he has more to offer in skill and reads the play better. If one of the rookies is promoted it should be Spencer for this match. I wouldn't mind Mckenzie though.

Please, just forget about Newton. The club would have 'let him go' if they hadn't foolishly given him a two year contract; after all, Robbo would have been a better bet than him, whatever the age difference. If it weren't for injuries we wouldn't even be discussing Newton as a contender for a position.

[burn in hell 0]

Martin in the backline? Where would you put him, more importantly, who would you leave out? Frawley, Rivers or Warnock, not to mention Garland when he comes back. Martin's only viable spot is Ruck/resting FF.

Miller's best game is when he works his ass off leading up the ground then doubling back, again and again and again. He straitens us up at CHF and gives us some oomph.

Bartram was a revelation in his first year. I would not write him off yet. He has the ability to be a tagger like Clinton Jones or Baker (stkilda) We need hard c*nts more than anything.

[Lost Highway 31]

Martin in the backline? Where would you put him, more importantly, who would you leave out? Frawley, Rivers or Warnock, not to mention Garland when he comes back. Martin's only viable spot is Ruck/resting FF.

Miller's best game is when he works his ass off leading up the ground then doubling back, again and again and again. He straitens us up at CHF and gives us some oomph.

Bartram was a revelation in his first year. I would not write him off yet. He has the ability to be a tagger like Clinton Jones or Baker (stkilda) We need hard c*nts more than anything.

I didn't say I'd put him IN the back-line this week, I said he's 'reasonably adept'. He's played most of his games there so your question is not really valid. There's no need to worry about where you would put him, anyway, as it's only a matter of time before injuries would make a place for him. People forget this; they always think of a player having to break into the very best 22. Has he shown anything in the ruck or the forward line? I would simply not experiment with him this week, when we have a vague chance of winning. If he's in the side I'd most prefer to see him as second ruck, but not key position. I'll come on here and make grovelling apologies to him and his supporters if he plays well in attack or the ruck.

I agree he plays best when leading up the ground, Miller that is, but I don't like to see him doubling back, when the sight of the forwards ahead of him - admittedly usually not creating space - usually brings indecision and very poor delivery. Still, I don't mind him at CHF if there's no one else. He does have his qualities and will have a go. Of the other players in line for selection, the only CHF possibilities, as I see it, aside from the very speculative Martin are Bate and a speculative trial of Rivers, who at least has a lot more natural ability and experience than Martin.

I haven't seen any indication of Bartram being a hard-nut. Yes, he was amazing in his first year, but all he's done since then is bulk up and lose his mojo.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,376]

Just a point of order. Greeny hasn't played 200 games yet or I've missed one and a half seasons. I think he's on 197 games. Still very experienced though.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

I didn't say I'd put him IN the back-line this week, I said he's 'reasonably adept'. He's played most of his games there so your question is not really valid. There's no need to worry about where you would put him, anyway, as it's only a matter of time before injuries would make a place for him. People forget this; they always think of a player having to break into the very best 22. Has he shown anything in the ruck or the forward line? I would simply not experiment with him this week, when we have a vague chance of winning. If he's in the side I'd most prefer to see him as second ruck, but not key position. I'll come on here and make grovelling apologies to him and his supporters if he plays well in attack or the ruck.

I agree he plays best when leading up the ground, Miller that is, but I don't like to see him doubling back, when the sight of the forwards ahead of him - admittedly usually not creating space - usually brings indecision and very poor delivery. Still, I don't mind him at CHF if there's no one else. He does have his qualities and will have a go. Of the other players in line for selection, the only CHF possibilities, as I see it, aside from the very speculative Martin are Bate and a speculative trial of Rivers, who at least has a lot more natural ability and experience than Martin.

I haven't seen any indication of Bartram being a hard-nut. Yes, he was amazing in his first year, but all he's done since then is bulk up and lose his mojo.

I want to see a stable backline in 2010 to the extent that injuries allow. There is some more depth there with Joel McDonald, and Garland and want to see Grimes playing in the midfield.

Last year we had the ridiculous aspect of Cale Morton playing in the back pocket (at least against Collingwood as I recall) and other experimentation / tanking exercises. Lynden Dunne picked up Riewoldt once - stupid. A cohesive backline is one that is used to working with each other and has a sense of esprit de corps. Players know the job they have to do. - the manpower looks excellent - I wouldnt be robbing peter to pay paul with Rivers to the forward line

[Craig Drinker 179]

We will have an experienced side to take on the Hawks. Our forward line looks strong, hard and capable, our onball section is tough and dedicated and our backline is rock solid. Our rookies will play off the bench, this will bring some raw excitement to the game. We are tough, we are fit, we are strong and we are ready to start winning. No more ballshit talk of potential. Lets hit the Hawks hard. CARN THE DEMONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

games played (**)

ff- Bate(68) Jamar (73) Petterd (29)

hf- Green(239) Miller(127) Jones (70)

c- Davey(119) Moloney(90) Bennell (16)

hb- J.Macdonald(80) Frawley(40) Bruce (203)

fb- Cheney(12) Warnock(38) Rivers (90)

fol-Martin(27) Grimes (16) McDonald(235)

int-Trengove(0) Scully(0) Bartram(59) Strauss(0)

It is customary to start with the backline and work down to the forward line when posting a team.

[Lost Highway 31]

I want to see a stable backline in 2010 to the extent that injuries allow. There is some more depth there with Joel McDonald, and Garland and want to see Grimes playing in the midfield.

Last year we had the ridiculous aspect of Cale Morton playing in the back pocket (at least against Collingwood as I recall) and other experimentation / tanking exercises. Lynden Dunne picked up Riewoldt once - stupid. A cohesive backline is one that is used to working with each other and has a sense of esprit de corps. Players know the job they have to do. - the manpower looks excellent - I wouldnt be robbing peter to pay paul with Rivers to the forward line

Poseidon, the back line was considered fairly 'stable' last year, and pretty often Martin was in it. If one were really going to trial a defender to play as a forward, Rivers would be a better bet than Martin; I'm not suggesting he actually play there on Saturday! Garland is unavailable and we don't know when he may return or to what position on the field. The simple fact is that Martin does not strike me (and some other posters, apparently) as having the natural gifts to get the ball for himself on the forward line, nor to make creative and damaging use of it. But he has shown he can hold down a spot in a fairly cohesive defence.

I do take your point about Morton and Dunn. This degree of mis-matching and experimentation I would not have condoned at that stage of the season (when I was overseas), when the tank was not decisively 'on'.