There are some interesting perspectives being presented here and it's clear to me that the situation with Ball is by no means cut and dried - either way.

It seems that Ball and apparently an array of family members and aquaintances need convincing as to the suitability of the MFC for this particular player.

It also seems that the MFC needs to think long and hard and carry out its own due diligence as to whether Ball fits into the club's plans for the future in terms of his fitness and medical condition. Of course, there would have been a great deal of discussion inside the club and my guess is that the FD is looking positively at the prospect of getting Ball to the club but I wouldn't expect that any finality will occur in the absence of decisions about some of the fitness issues of the sort raised by Mr Magic.

On the issue of the manager, I note what you say but it's still a bit of a stretch to raise the conflict of interest issue. After all, it was St. Kilda that made the decision to delist McGuire. You would have to assume the Saints were looking after their own interests and if they were doing that to secure Ball or for some other reason, it would have happened irrespective of the identity of the player manager.

The ruck area was seen as a bigger weakness than out clearance weakness, which is still there but will be alleviated by Sidebottom, one of at least 10 players from that draft already superior to Watts.

Please mods ban this Collingwood clown.

Then if that is the case, why was Jolly a guest of McGuire during our finals matches? One of my best friends is ROK (I played school footy against for years) & he told me they had been courting Jolly for quite a time. The ruck area was seen as a bigger weakness than out clearance weakness, which is still there but will be alleviated by Sidebottom, one of at least 10 players from that draft already superior to Watts.

From the dealings Hawthorn had with Sydney & ROK last year, Roos didn't want a thing to do with Hawthorn. Jolly was never on the table.

I know quite a bit of what actually occurred with Ball & even Judd for that matter, what remains true, is there will be questions asked both of Melbourne & St. Kilda if they fail to retain/recruit Ball.

You are a dead set clown Mrs X. Ask away sunshine, start by asking why Collingwood enticed Ball to nominate them as his preferred destination then hung him out to dry during trade week? Not the first time they have done this either, ask Nick Stevens?

So what if Eddie had cuddles with Jolly! Jolly is journeyman, gun for hire, mr fixit. etc and Collingwood will hope he can do the job Fraser and Wood can't. The cost was high though! Remember Jack Grimes was the sum of Woods' move to the Lexus Centre. BTW, when are Collingwood chnaging their name to the "Lexus Centre Magpies". They haven't been near Collingwood since Nicky Winmar escaped a lynching.

Edited October 30, 200915 yr by diesel

On the issue of the manager, I note what you say but it's still a bit of a stretch to raise the conflict of interest issue. After all, it was St. Kilda that made the decision to delist McGuire. You would have to assume the Saints were looking after their own interests and if they were doing that to secure Ball or for some other reason, it would have happened irrespective of the identity of the player manager.

Unless of course you view it in the following light:-

What if St Kilda says to Connors we cannot pay Ball more then the 300k we've offered him.

Connors says in reply - we need another 100k.

St Kilda says the only way we can do that is to delist Maguire who is uncontracted. We have offered him a 1 year deal on 100k, which we'll need to withdraw.

Connors says Ball needs 400k.

How would you view the conflict in that 'hypothetical' circumstance?

I actually don't believe that is what happened, but should Ball stay at St Kilda on an increased salary to the original offer, then the money can only have come from the selisting of Maguire.

The money they've saved on Hudghton and X Clarke is gone to pay Lovett and Peake. Maybe the money they offered Ball originally isn't there any more either?

They seem reluctant to put any players on the Veterans List which would point to them utilizing the Rookie List to its maximum.

I know quite a bit of what actually occurred with Ball & even Judd for that matter, what remains true, is there will be questions asked both of Melbourne & St. Kilda if they fail to retain/recruit Ball.

"I wanna tell you this", "I know that for a fact" and "let me tell you". You are a troll and not even a funny one. Enough Mods. I post here to communicate with Demon supporters or those of other clubs that can add to the conversation of the MFC, not to listen to some [censored] whose only aim is to [censored] on our parade for his own @#$%ingwood mindset.

Old Xav when you go back and take an honest look at the last load of crap you spewed on here just before you were smashed in the prelim, and care to comment on THAT, we'll start taking you seriously.

But, true to form, you're too much of a coward to go back to that thread, since it showed what a big girls' blouse your really are.

Sidebottom better than Watts...

HA!!!

Not the first time they have done this either, ask Nick Stevens?

Nick Stevens was a mad Collingwood supporter before he was drafted, he even stated on radio yesterday, that for the first time since 17, he could go back to supporting Collingwood. In 03', his preference was to play for this club, he nominated us.

Jolly is journeyman, gun for hire, mr fixit. etc and Collingwood will hope he can do the job Fraser and Wood can't.

Jolly based on his 09' form is one of the best 3 ruckman in the AFL. It's not if he's a journeyman either, his move to Victoria this year was under contract & on the preference of his wife returning to Victoria. It's hardly his fault he was cut by Melbourne in 04' either..

Remember Jack Grimes was the sum of Woods' move to the Lexus Centre.

Wood has already stood up in 2 finals wins & will flourish having a capable ruckman next to him. I hardly see Grimes, who would struggle to get a game for us, an example of a higher opportunity cost.

Wait, what's the score again?

Eyes on the Ball.

Old Xav, your acting like the little private school boy you are, Go Away you [censored]!!!

Also we did not cut Jolly, He requested a trade as he wanted more game time, so do you still think it was hardly his fault for us "cutting" him?

Go back to where you belong tool...

Nick Stevens was a mad Collingwood supporter before he was drafted, he even stated on radio yesterday, that for the first time since 17, he could go back to supporting Collingwood. In 03', his preference was to play for this club, he nominated us.

Blah, blah, blah. Now he gets his chance.

Jolly based on his 09' form is one of the best 3 ruckman in the AFL. It's not if he's a journeyman either, his move to Victoria this year was under contract & on the preference of his wife returning to Victoria. It's hardly his fault he was cut by Melbourne in 04' either..

Blah, blah, blah. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Wood has already stood up in 2 finals wins & will flourish having a capable ruckman next to him. I hardly see Grimes, who would struggle to get a game for us, an example of a higher opportunity cost.

Blah, blah, blah. Keep telling yourself that Wood > Grimes. We believe you. He's that good you had to use another 1st round pick for a ruck.

[censored] off you [censored].

Wood has already stood up in 2 finals wins & will flourish having a capable ruckman next to him. I hardly see Grimes, who would struggle to get a game for us, an example of a higher opportunity cost.

Keep on living in fantasy land [censored]. Enjoy your mediocre club cause they are about slide. Malthouse 11 years without a flag that's worse than Daniher's. BTW thanks for Grimes who would walk into your side and Jurrah. I'm gonna enjoy seeing the 2 duds you got instead in Wood and Leigh Brown playing in the VFL where they belong.

I'm surprised to read all this criticism of Rivers.

He has a terrific football brain - and he knits the young players together with his leadership and clever positional play. He wasn't at his best at times last year - but with a full pre-season under his belt I'd expect him to be an important part of our defence over the next few years.

What do you disagree with (particularly my post, since you quoted it)?

Nothing you've said about Rivers' strengths contradict or are mutually exclusive with what I've suggested are his weaknesses.

And Hannibal, do you really think a player manager, in the midst of crucial negotiations is going to 'blurt out' the whole truth about those negotiations to a guy who is the parent of his children's friends?

He'll tell you what he wants you to know and most probably pass on. Some of it may be true, some not. But you can almost guarantee that it won't be the whole truth. (not having a go here - just a cautionary note)

I'll back my own intuition and judgment over the veracity of his comments, [censored].

Edited October 30, 200915 yr by Hannibal

Further to that, given the Demon's impending midfield transformation, is it possible that in a sense we have been excited at the prospect of getting him because in our minds we were recruiting to save last season, not build the next?

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Playing the 'Do you love me?' game with a player from another team is starting to really irritate me.

If, before Luke Ball was on the market, someone asked you (anyone on the site) to: "List the 22 players from other teams that you would most like to see come to the Dees next year": How many of us would have had Ball in that 22?

I know I have pulled the number 22 out of thin air, but seeing as that's how many players fit on a park it seems reasonable..

The name 'Luke Ball' would not have been on anyone's wish list.

Now that he might be available, some of our passionate and loyal Dees fans have let themselves be swept along in the emotional tempo surrounding this prospective trade and have lost sight of what Ball is: a reasonable on-baller. And I emphasise 'is' - don't get back to me with what he 'was': a gun midfielder. Those days have probably passed.

To get back to what I've quoted from Distance Demon - The last thing this club needs is to go through yet another round of rejection by another club's player. I still hate Judd for the imperial manner in which he dismissed our club.

We don't need Luke Ball, and frankly, I'm sick of hearing about him. Our midfield will be a wrecking machine inside the next four years, and Ball will be finished whether he had come to Melbourne or not.

Jolly based on his 09' form is one of the best 3 ruckman in the AFL. It's not if he's a journeyman either, his move to Victoria this year was under contract & on the preference of his wife returning to Victoria. It's hardly his fault he was cut by Melbourne in 04' either..

I think Rojik nailed it with the "blah blah blah" post. You really don't know what you're talking about. Jolly asked to be traded because he was unhappy at the game time he was getting behind Jeff White, who was one of the premier ruckmen at the time. In short, it was his fault.

I'll back my own intuition and judgment over the veracity of his comments, [censored].

My wife has a cousin whose brother-in-law is the taxi driver who drove Luke Ball home from Tullamarine the other day and, as a consequence, she has a fair insight into this whole sordid affair.

Ball said very little for much of the ride home. He mumbled a few platitudes about the weather and the traffic but wasn't in a talkative mood. He appeared severely jet lagged (memo: check out any medical connection between OP, DVT and jet lag - it could be important) but his body language apparently gave it all away.

As a result, here's the latest on Luke Ball almost straight from the horse's mouth:

Ball's choices as far as his future direction are limited -

St. Kilda - his bridges are almost burnt there. Lyon is not a big fan and told the Saint faithful on grand final night that if a player doesn't like it at Linton Street then he can pizz off as far as he was concerned. The club would help him on the way out. Ball took up the offer and look what occurred? If they kiss and make up it will be an awkard year with club and player biding their time until next year's trade week. The atmosphere at the club where the Goose appears to have been shafted as well would potentially become cancerous.

Collingw&%$ - according to one view, the Pies were already into Darren Jolly for who they were prepared to part with their first round draft choice (and more) and, true to their tradition, they weren't willing to do the proper thing and trade out the right players to adequately compensate the Saints for Ball. In this way Collingw&%$ has also shafted young Luke despite heavily courting him  with a hefty contract. 

There are some  Collingw&%$ people who suffer from delusions of grandeur (aka McGuires Disease) who believe they could get Ball with ND selection # 30 but this (like claims that Steel Sidebottom is already the Messiah) is somewhat fanciful given the number of clubs (including more than one interstater) that would take him with an earlier selection. Even if he falls to pick 30, is that really a win for Collingw&%$ given that its next pick is # 62 and this would effectively rule out the club from selecting any quality youth in the last draft for three or four years before the existing clubs will get a half decent crack at drafting quality youth again?

Melbourne - obviously interested but will they remain interested if they see a person who is less than enthusiastic about coming on board? How will he fit into an up and coming team with a number of budding young stars? It's said that he's impatient and doesn't want to endure the long wait before his team is capable of attaining finals football standard again. He must have a short memory because the Saints were down near the bottom when he was drafted at the end of 2001 and in his third year at the club in 2004 they strung together an opening winning streak of 10 games, made the finals and but for an ordinary performance from a coach out of his depth could have gone on to greater honours. Which raises the question whether, if a three year wait for success is not enough, is he the right person? And that's without even raising the issues that led to him getting limited game time from his coach in the latter stages of 2009.

The conclusion is that despite pressure from family and a manager who probably has a lot on his plate, Ball has to do some soul searching in the next few days and so do a few clubs.

There you are. Even though Luke Ball hardly opened his mouth on the long drive home from Tulla, my wife's cousin's brother-in-law managed to suss it all out.

Edited October 30, 200915 yr by MO FINE

I hardly see Grimes, who would struggle to get a game for us, an example of a higher opportunity cost.

Goldsack 16 games

Toovey 21 games

Maxwell 20 games (How he got AA is a joke)

Enough said.

My wife has a cousin whose brother-in-law is the taxi driver who drove Luke Ball home from Tullamarine the other day and, as a consequence, she has a fair insight into this whole sordid affair.

Ball said very little for much of the ride home. He mumbled a few platitudes about the weather and the traffic but wasn't in a talkative mood. He appeared severely jet lagged (memo: check out any medical connection between OP, DVT and jet lag - it could be important) but his body language apparently gave it all away.

As a result, here's the latest on Luke Ball almost straight from the horse's mouth:

Everything you mention can be gleaned from reading this thread. Excellent summary though.

Blah, blah, blah. Keep telling yourself that Wood > Grimes. We believe you. He's that good you had to use another 1st round pick for a ruck.

Touche

Grimes, struggle to get a game at Collingwood? That has literally made my weekend.

Thanks Xav, you're always good for a laugh. Shouldn't you be whinging about the fixture?

Everything you mention can be gleaned from reading this thread. Excellent summary though.

Thanks, the wife's cousin's brother-in-law also happens to consult Demonland from time to time.

Goldsack 16 games

Toovey 21 games

Maxwell 20 games (How he got AA is a joke)

Enough said.

Davis the finals ignitor AA selection was more of a joke.

You forgot to mention the worst player in the league Leigh Brown playing 20 games.

Goldsack only played 10 games but is Considered too good by Collingwood to trade him for a quality player like Ball you can also add the great Blight who played 0 games. No one can tell me that Collingwood are seriously interested in Ball when they weren't willing to trade these no names.

Wood only played 11 games in a team with no ruck division. WHAT A STAR definately worth pick 14.

Don't believe anything from this bloke. He has been been pulling figures out of his ass like all Collingwood supporters do since there was a chance that Ball could come to us. I'll take BS from our own but not Collingwood supporters. I don't know why he's even on here.

sorry ..couldnt find the tongue in cheek emoticon !!

My wife has a cousin whose brother-in-law is the taxi driver who drove Luke Ball home from Tullamarine the other day and, as a consequence, she has a fair insight into this whole sordid affair.

Ball said very little for much of the ride home. He mumbled a few platitudes about the weather and the traffic but wasn't in a talkative mood. He appeared severely jet lagged (memo: check out any medical connection between OP, DVT and jet lag - it could be important) but his body language apparently gave it all away.

As a result, here's the latest on Luke Ball almost straight from the horse's mouth:

Ball's choices as far as his future direction are limited -

St. Kilda - his bridges are almost burnt there. Lyon is not a big fan and told the Saint faithful on grand final night that if a player doesn't like it at Linton Street then he can pizz off as far as he was concerned. The club would help him on the way out. Ball took up the offer and look what occurred? If they kiss and make up it will be an awkard year with club and player biding their time until next year's trade week. The atmosphere at the club where the Goose appears to have been shafted as well would potentially become cancerous.

Collingw&%$ - according to one view, the Pies were already into Darren Jolly for who they were prepared to part with their first round draft choice (and more) and, true to their tradition, they weren't willing to do the proper thing and trade out the right players to adequately compensate the Saints for Ball. In this way Collingw&%$ has also shafted young Luke despite heavily courting him  with a hefty contract. 

There are some  Collingw&%$ people who suffer from delusions of grandeur (aka McGuires Disease) who believe they could get Ball with ND selection # 30 but this (like claims that Steel Sidebottom is already the Messiah) is somewhat fanciful given the number of clubs (including more than one interstater) that would take him with an earlier selection. Even if he falls to pick 30, is that really a win for Collingw&%$ given that its next pick is # 62 and this would effectively rule out the club from selecting any quality youth in the last draft for three or four years before the existing clubs will get a half decent crack at drafting quality youth again?

Melbourne - obviously interested but will they remain interested if they see a person who is less than enthusiastic about coming on board? How will he fit into an up and coming team with a number of budding young stars? It's said that he's impatient and doesn't want to endure the long wait before his team is capable of attaining finals football standard again. He must have a short memory because the Saints were down near the bottom when he was drafted at the end of 2001 and in his third year at the club in 2004 they strung together an opening winning streak of 10 games, made the finals and but for an ordinary performance from a coach out of his depth could have gone on to greater honours. Which raises the question whether, if a three year wait for success is not enough, is he the right person? And that's without even raising the issues that led to him getting limited game time from his coach in the latter stages of 2009.

The conclusion is that despite pressure from family and a manager who probably has a lot on his plate, Ball has to do some soul searching in the next few days and so do a few clubs.

There you are. Even though Luke Ball hardly opened his mouth on the long drive home from Tulla, my wife's cousin's brother-in-law managed to suss it all out.

I didn't read it. But let me tell you it's a beautiful day. I've been out since 7.30am and there are joggers around Alexandra Ave, rowers, etc. Yet you're couped up at home punching out meaningless crap - I assume.

Get out Son.

I didn't read it.

Shame really, it's the best post of some very good ones and if there is one to read to summarize the thread, this is the one.