Experiments

[Doggo 32]

I just finished watching the replay of the Richmond match. Unfortunately i wasn't able to make it on Sunday (due mostly to the 1pm timeslot, no sleep and a monumental hangover), and sadly it was first game i've missed in Melbourne this year. Faaaark...

WOW. Just, WOW. Speechless.

In my mind, a loss after the siren was just about the best possible outcome we could have hoped for. As close to a win as we could possibly get, without actually winning and harming our chances of getting the PP. Let's hope for a similar result this week against the Roos (maybe not quite as close).

Anyway, i just wanted to make note of a few of the "unusual" positional experiments DB & co. had in place from what i could tell in the replay. After reading about some of the changes, I wish i were there to actually see these experiments IRL.

Feel free to add any that i may have missed:

-Morton late withdrawal, replaced by Spencer (We replaced a hard-running midfielder type, with a raw and underdone ruckman?)

-Martin started in the ruck despite having 2 other, more 'specialist' ruckman in the team

-Bartram starting at FB on Riewoldt 1st qtr (DB, you're kidding, right?)

-Jones tagging Deledio 1st half (Deledio too tall and quick for Jones, plus dangerous when pushing forward)

-Johnson, Miller, Bate and Newton all in the same forward line at the same time in the 1st half, with no crumbing options (Very poor at ground level, with Jetta and Davey used in midfield)

-Bartram, Frawley and Warnock swung up forward in 2nd half (have any of these guys ever played forward before?)

-No tag on Ben Cousins (Bennell was the early matchup before coming off injured)

-Miller, Bate, Cheney and Jetta, all having a run on the ball during crucial stages of the 3rd and 4th quarters (Miller in the guts?! LOL.. Bate hasn't played there since 2007. Cheney and Jetta are both young and relatively inexperienced in the midfield)

-Petterd got a go-anywhere license to roam free (Almost backfired as he played arguably his career-best game)

-Johnson, at FB on Riewoldt for most of 2nd half + a short stint on Nathan Brown early in 4th (Big ruckman matched up on 2 agile, medium-tall leading targets)

-Dunn played key back on Morton/Riewoldt/Brown in 2nd half (Tried out as a defender despite playing pretty well in 1st half in midfield/forward, and both our KPD's up forward)

-Spencer forced to ruck alone despite cramping up in the last, while PJ is left down back and Warnock/Frawley up forward (PJ could've pushed into ruck, and one of Warnock/Frawley sent back so Spencer could have a rest)

-Miller doing some centre-square ruckwork in 3rd qtr, with PJ down back (WTF?)

-Newton on the wing and playing loose in defence for the whole 2nd half (HAHAHAHA)

-Jones, Valenti both deep in defence in the late stages of the 3rd qtr and all of the 4th (2 of our slower, shorter 'inside' players, used as 'line-breaking ball-carriers' from defence)

-Valenti matched up on Nahas in last quarter (Valenti way too slow for Nahas, who'd have thought?)

-Davey off for majority of 4th qtr (When the game was up for grabs)

-Vision of DB walking out of the coaching box with less than 10 seconds to play, thinking we'd won. The despondant faces of the coaching staff tell the story of one that's just been pumped by 10 goals. Pretty ice cold in that box, even before McMahon marked the footy. DB is adamant he thought "we'd won the footy game")

I'm sure i've missed some, but judging from just that list above, anyone in their right mind KNOWS we were trying to lose. Never have i been more grateful for Vlad's complete and utter ignornace and stubborness to the issue that is tanking. This match was the biggest attempt at tanking the AFL has ever seen, IMHO. Bigger than Carlton's job on us in the Kreuzer cup of 07.

If we were "playing to win", then there were just so many some massive howlers in the matchups that the coaching was bordering on pathetic. Some of those 'odd' matchups may have only lasted a few mins or so, but most were persisted with, and in the most crucial stages of the game. And almost all the changes had never happened before.

Will DB be as bold next week in his quest for another loss against the Roos?

I'd like to see them go all out again against the Roos. While Vlad is happy believing that tanking does not exist, let's rub it in his face! Bring Robbo back in, play him in the guts and off HB. Play Trent Zomer and Rohan Bail, both of whom have barely even looked up to VFL standard for the majority of this season. Sylvia, Morton both miss again with a 'mystery illness'. Moloney still sore... etc etc etc...

Go all out Melbourne! Bring Scully home!

Edited August 5, 2009 by Doggo

[Timmuns 16]

Yep, its a tricky one eh?

Most of us would be happy with the result from Sunday. Its a shame that we seem to be able to actually match some good-ish sides when we get our sh#t together (something that should have happened a lot more in the first half of the season) and yet we'll almost certainly lose every single game (bar Freo) from here on in, when really we are starting to get some momentum up.

I kinda wish sometimes that Vlad and DB would just come out and say we're tanking, cos its so bloody obvious. Yet I don't blame DB for these tactics, its probably the best form of tanking I can think of, and probably beneficial for the playing group (with regards to experimentation of new possies) and above all else,

IF THE SYSTEM ALLOWS IT WE MAY AS WELL MILK IT, hopefully next year Vlad will come out of his shell and bring the lottery system in because its taking the integrity out of the game all too quickly and its not healthy.

Edited August 5, 2009 by Timmuns

[e25 5]

I think you can justify all of these things though

If you're trying to develop and evaluate your list, what exactly is wrong with pushing them out of their comfort zone?

Setting a kid a task, a REAL task and challenging them to come out on top against the odds -- which a lot of them actually did.

If I was Bailey I'd be pleased as punch, not because we lost but because of the players' response.

You can say all of these things look suspicious and ridiculous and its tanking, but how is it any different to having Campbell Brown defend Nick Riewoldt last year or having Paddy Ryder in the ruck this year?

Is that tanking? Oh, no, its ok because its seen as acceptable seeing as it was a success.

And these aren't players that have long been established in a position. Its not like moving Barry hall to a half back flank or Richo to a wing... oh, wait.

I feel like I'm finding excuses to disguise blatant tanking, but the deeper you delve, the more it actually seems above board...

Edited August 5, 2009 by Enforcer25

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

I just hope Liam Jurrah enjoys his time at full back when he comes back.....oh dear what if hes good at it

[DaveyJones'sLocker 637]

ive watched the game a couple of times.

and u have clearly over anazlyed it!

for me the only moves that stood out was pj in the backline and frawley and warnock up forward

the others were random but generally for short periods and can be explained by a number of reasons

[do it 4 robbie 1]

Best delete this thread, i think they`re on to us.

[Doggo 32]

Best delete this thread, i think they`re on to us.

LOL

[felixdacat 459]

Best delete this thread, i think they`re on to us.

Yeh but it was like that when we got here so we can't be blamed for it, can we.

[H_T 2,941]

ive watched the game a couple of times.

and u have clearly over anazlyed it!

for me the only moves that stood out was pj in the backline and frawley and warnock up forward

the others were random but generally for short periods and can be explained by a number of reasons

I tend to agree to a certain extent. You could go to many games this year and question plenty of matchups. It was stated before the game what his intentions were and that was to experiment. It's been well documented. It's just with this game there was plenty of experimentation. No one has commented on Richmond's moves by the way. Has it ever occurred some matchups over short bursts were the doing of Richmonds.

[Binmans PA 26,714]

-Jones tagging Deledio 1st half (Deledio too tall and quick for Jones, plus dangerous when pushing forward)

I don't think this is such a strange move. I want to see Jones get more tagging roles, because if he doesn't develop that part of his game, I don't see him playing many when Scully and co arrive.

-No tag on Ben Cousins (Bennell was the early matchup before coming off injured)

I thought someone was tagging Cousins...what he did he did extremely well, but he didn't get as many disposal as I thought he would, particularly early on. He only had early 20s? I think he must have had someone tracking him.

-Johnson, at FB on Riewoldt for most of 2nd half + a short stint on Nathan Brown early in 4th (Big ruckman matched up on 2 agile, medium-tall leading targets)

Once again, I think these are arguably good, inventive moves. The sort of moves Daniher would never make. Johnson is extremely quick and I believe could match it with Riewoldt and an aging Brown. He's lost the confidence to ruck properly and play forward, but giving him a job, where he is to just beat one player and nothing else, is probably good for him at the moment. A lot of people (especially in the papers) don't seem to be giving Johnson credit for his speed and agility. Okay, so he's been disappointing this season, but he certainly boasts those two characteristics.

-Davey off for majority of 4th qtr (When the game was up for grabs)

I've gotta say I didn't notice this. Good pick up. I was genuinely enthralled (almost nail biting) and hoping for a loss that I didn't pick up a rather obvious detail like this.

I'm sure i've missed some, but judging from just that list above, anyone in their right mind KNOWS we were trying to lose. Never have i been more grateful for Vlad's complete and utter ignornace and stubborness to the issue that is tanking. This match was the biggest attempt at tanking the AFL has ever seen, IMHO. Bigger than Carlton's job on us in the Kreuzer cup of 07.

Having said all of the above, I agree with you. Massive experimentation, but I still think a few of the moves that have been pointed out, aren't quite as bizarre as some would have you believe. Furthermore, in term's of player output, Carlton's was absolutely woeful, whereas we tried our guts out.

I'd like to see them go all out again against the Roos. While Vlad is happy believing that tanking does not exist, let's rub it in his face! Bring Robbo back in, play him in the guts and off HB.

Don't do this. Robbo is the sort of player that would do well against a struggling side, but no one else. He'd probably move himself to full forward anyway.

Play Trent Zomer and Rohan Bail, both of whom have barely even looked up to VFL standard for the majority of this season.

It seems you might get your wish here. Bail hardly had a touch in the Casey 1sts last week, but apparently he may play this week. Whilst, Zomer apparentloy had a good one, by his standards this season.

Sylvia, Morton both miss again with a 'mystery illness'. Moloney still sore... etc etc etc...

Once again, this is ideal. I think Moloney will be out for one more, but there's no way we can keep Sylvia and Morton out again. Although, the media hasn't picked up on Morton yet, but they're hot on Sylvia.

Go all out Melbourne! Bring Scully home!

Agreed, though.

Edited August 6, 2009 by AdamFarr

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

Yeah Bail's likely to get a run this week interestingly enough. Dunno about Zomer though. I'm sure if Bails could get him into the 22 somehow he would..

I must say that I actually think C. Bartram to FB is a masterstroke

I remember some clueless person somewhere saying that they didn't like either of Frawley or Warnock playing on Buddy Franklin when we played the Hawks. It was put to 'said' person in a rather flippant fashion that perhaps Bartram should be moved to FB to counter the pace, height and all-round athleticism of Buddy.

Due to Bailey's 'experimentation', at least we now know that we have the 'Bartram option' to fall back on if none of the key defenders can cut the mustard in the future...