CLUB TALK

[Demonland 72,228]

CLUB TALK by Whispering Jack

There was a time when a clash between Melbourne and Collingwood was the biggest ticket in town. Sadly, this game will pass relatively unnoticed this week because other teams have taken over the mantle the Demons once held. The Magpies still get the coverage thanks to supporter numbers and the fact that their President is quirky and often outlandish in his conduct and behaviour but that won't help much this week as two first round losers face off.

The week's news that the Melbourne Football Club has again become a sporting section of the Melbourne Cricket Club might be just the tonic that the Demons need to help them return to their past glory and standing and it's ironic therefore that the announcement came on the eve of what used to be the greatest of the VFL/AFL's clashes of traditional rivals.

I appreciate that there are some who aren't particularly interested in club politics but this move is one that should have every diehard Demon sitting up and taking notice because it's a bigger story than you might think.

When the breakaway by the MFC from the MCC was first mooted in the late '70s, the idea was sold on the basis that it was a necessity. The conservative MCC was allegedly holding us back and preventing the club from recruiting the best personnel, both on and off field. It was argued that we needed our independence in order to enable us to compete with the successful, switched on commercial clubs like Carlton, Richmond and North Melbourne. When the umbilical cord was cut in 1980 Melbourne supporters all nodded their heads in agreement. They hadn't seen finals action for 16 years. The change was going to help.

Now it turns out that, despite the fact that change did help somewhat - there were some improvements in recruiting, finals appearances arrived after more than two decades in the wilderness and there were even a couple of grand finals - the decision to part ways with the MCC wasn't such a good idea after all.

The news of a closer liaison between the two clubs has reminded me of two strands of thought I had developing over the years:

1. Separation brought about political instability. We had dust ups when Sir Billy Snedden was Chairman, we had the merger fight, we had the unseating of Joe Gutnick, we had the Szondy fiasco (or it had us) and finally, we had last year's bloodless coup that saw Jimmy Stynes installed on the Demon throne. Now that we're linked with the MCC again, maybe we are going to see less of the disruption and self-destructive tendencies that political instability brings and if that happens it could override the loss of some measure of the club's independence as a result of the move.

2. I've had this theory brewing in my mind that there was more to the decision to seek independence from the MCC than meets the eye. Perhaps it might also have been necessary to ensure that the club secured Ron Barassi as coach. The club was under MCC control when Barassi left at the end of 1964 and when Norm Smith was dramatically sacked in mid 1965. At that time Barassi threw his support behind his mentor Smith. I always felt that there was some residual animosity between the MCC camp and the Smith/Barassi camp that might have lingered long beyond Smith's death in the early '70s and into the early '80s when Barass came back to the club for a relatively unsuccessful five year stint as coach.

It's just a theory and I could well be wrong but perhaps one day some historian might decide to look into the story of the bitter dispute that damaged our club enormously. Yesterday's announcement will hopefully put that all to bed and usher in a new era for the Melbourne Football Club.

While things are looking up for the Demons in the medium to long term, I'm afraid the announcement won't help Melbourne in the short term and certainly not this Saturday. Just a few weeks ago Dean Bailey was positively gushing about having close to a full list of players to select his team for the opening NAB Cup game. Last week, almost a third of the list was on the sidelines an unable to play either AFL or in the VFL game at Casey Fields. We heaved a sigh of relief when we saw the injury list after Sunday's loss against North Melbourne. In fact, two of the club's fastest young players in a team not noted for its leg speed will miss at the weekend - Colin Garland (leg) and Simon Buckley (groin). Surely, the dreaded curse is upon us again for the third year running?

Meanwhile, the Pies were stunned by their loss to an interstate club on the MCG last weekend and they are not likely to let this game slip. Sadly then I must concede that the old tradition will not be revived this week; the old enemy should be far too strong - Collingwood by 19 points.

THE GAME

Melbourne v. Collingwood at the MCG - 4 April 2009 at 2.10pm

HEAD TO HEAD

Overall Collingwood 138 wins Melbourne 79 wins 4 draws

At the G Collingwood 71 wins Melbourne 59 wins 2 draws

Since 2000 Collingwood 5 wins Melbourne 5 wins

The Coaches Malthouse 1 win Bailey 0 wins

MEDIA

TV Channel 10 AT 3:00 PM (delayed telecast)

RADIO SEN Triple M

THE BETTING

Collingwood to win $1.15 Melbourne to win $5.00

LAST TIME THEY MET Collingwood 17.14.116 d Melbourne 13.17.95 Round 11, 2008, at MCG

Melbourne started well with McLean and Jones getting their share of the ball out of the middle but, after an even first half, the Magpies came with a withering seven goal third quarter burst to ensure victory, albeit an unconvincing one. Colin Sylvia and Austin Wonaeamirri kicked three goals each and the struggling Demons lost Brent Moloney (shoulder) and Jared Rivers (groin) for the remainder of the year just one week after Russell Robertson went down with his achilles injury.

THE TEAMS

COLLINGWOOD

Backs Shannon Cox Simon Prestigiacomo Heath Shaw

Half backs Harry O'Brien Nathan Brown Nick Maxwell

Centreline Martin Clarke Alan Didak Alan Toovey

Half forwards Dale Thomas Travis Cloke Paul Medhurst

Forwards John Anthony Leigh Brown Shane O'Bree

Followers Josh Fraser Tarkyn Lockyer Scott Pendlebury

Interchange Leon Davis Brad Dick Ben Johnson Dane Swan

Emergencies Dayne Beams Anthony Corrie Tyson Goldsack

In Leigh Brown Brad Dick Heath Shaw

Out Chris Bryan Tyson Goldsack Ben Reid

New Leigh Brown (North Melbourne)

MELBOURNE

Backs James McDonald Matthew Warnock Jared Rivers

Half backs James Frawley Paul Johnson Brent Moloney

Centreline Neville Jetta Kyle Cheney Clint Bartram

Half forwards Ricky Petterd Brad Miller Brock McLean

Forwards Colin Sylvia Stefan Martin Aaron Davey

Followers Jake Spencer Cameron Bruce Brad Green

Interchange Matthew Bate Jamie Bennell Nathan Jones Cale Morton

Emergencies Lynden Dunn John Meesen Michael Newton

In Stefan Martin Colin Sylvia

Out Simon Buckley (groin), Colin Garland (foot)

FAN'S EYE VIEW

Doggo - love my Demons as much as anyone here on Demonland, and nothing is more pleasing than to see them bury the Magpies as rank-outsiders. But the reality of the situation is Collingwood are a side who should be legitimately pushing for a top 4 position come September, whereas the Dee's will most likely be occupying a place towards the bottom of the table. Without strong marking targets up forward, I fail to see how Melbourne will be able to kick a winning score. Much like last week, the Dee's will be competitive for the majority of the game, but in the end will lack to firepower to put the Pies away as our young kids run out of steam.

As much as I hate to say it, Collingwood by 25 points.

Yze_Magic - Well, after last weeks Kangas game I have to say I feel pretty good about the direction the Demon are headed.

The backline has already been rebuilt in 12 months by Bailey and co, and soon the midfield and forward line will follow (although the forward line is still a while away)

Now, as for last weeks prediction - I was let down big time by some poor selections by the MFC selectors, who left out Colin Sylvia. He is the best contested mark at the club, and that is the main area we lacked in last week. Nobody capable of taking a mark up forward.

No such trouble this week, as Sylvia will be back and Maric should join him to add some much need skill to the side.

So without further ado, here is what will happen this Saturday as the Demons destroy the pathetic ferals by 62 points.

I expect Sylvia's 7th goal to come from a hanger on the goal line, where he will then turn and kick the ball as hard and low as possible through goal, where it will meet up with Joffas head, rendering him slightly more brain dead than he already is.

Enjoy this Saturday, cos there is nothing like smashing these fools and listening to their President, coach and supporters cry about the umpires after the game.

DaVe86 - Finally, a departure from tradition. We're going to let a Collingwood fan DaVe86 provide his perspective on the game (version edited as the original was written erly in the week):

The build up to round 1 was huge, and both Collingwood and Melbourne would be disappointed to have lost their first round match.

For Melbourne, many would be pleased with their more competitive spirit and better attack on the ball. However, given their long pre-season and boasting that they are extremely fit, to be overrun in the second half will be of concern. Still, with four debutantes and a swag of youngsters, Melbourne has shown strong early signs of improvement, and may not be the easy beats in 09.

Collingwood's opening round was even more disappointing. The Pies were highly fancied to beat Adelaide comfortably at the G. Adelaide stole the game from Collingwood in the first quarter. Despite a solid comeback, and a corresponding 18 point lead in the third, Collingwood faded and lost its run in the last quarter. A few nervous passages of play from the senior players also cost Collingwood dearly.

It is rare for these two sides to play so early in the year. It has been a long time since Collingwood played Melbourne on anything other than Queen's Birthday holiday. For Collingwood, "Blockbuster fatigue" is no excuse this year.

Collingwood has beaten Melbourne in the past 2 of its encounters, though both games were highly uninspiring or convincing victories. Prior to this, Melbourne had won four Queen's Birthday clashes in a row.

No doubt that this is a rebuilding phase for Melbourne, and Collingwood should rightly go in as favourites. However, I never take a game against Melbourne lightly because the Demons have a tendency to lift against their Black and White foes.

When these sides last met, it was Collingwood who won 116-95. Lockyer surprisingly polled the 3 votes with 20 possessions and 2 goals, whilst Scott Burns was dominant 36 disposals, 6 tackles and 12 marks. He polled 2 votes. Adam Yze's 25 possession and 2 goal game earnt him the 1 vote.

Brock Mclean also had one of his better matches with 36 disposals and Bruce was prominent with 27. Alan Didak won 22 disposals and snared 2 goals. Sylvia kicked 3 goals from 14 disposals playing up forward.

No doubt the sides take a different look in 2009. Yze and Burns have retired, as has Jeff White who had 24 hitouts. Shane Wakelin has also retired, and Simon Prestigiacomo has reclaimed his defensive spot. Melbourne are highly likely to continue to play a lot of younger players, whilst the temptation will also be there for Collingwood to introduce Beams and Sidebottom into the team for their first games.

Melbourne debuted four players last week and all were reasonably impressive. Cheney was particularly impressive with 22 disposals and was given defensive tasks throughout. His form over pre-season was strong. He has shown to be a gutsy and hard worker, and although he might look a bit unfashionable out there, he will give 100%. Jake Spencer would have also pleased the coaching staff. Spencer was promoted onto the senior list in the pre-season after Jamar was put on the long term injury list. Spencer was very promising throughout the NAB cup and has already jumped ahead of Meesen in the pecking order.

Hamish McIntosh perhaps dominated both Johnson and Spencer in round 1 kicking three goals. However, for a debutant, Spencer was impressive with 9 hitouts and 8 possessions. He showed a willingness to link up with his midfielders and put himself in the right spots.

The two other debutants for Melbourne were indigenous players in Bennell and Jetta. Each were given limited game time. Jetta did quite well with 16 possessions and a goal. Melbourne would also have been heartened to see Aaron Davey back looking reasonably fit, although his impact on the game was limited by a tight tag from Rawlings.

Collingwood would have been concerned with the form of some of its senior players. Didak and Davis were prominent but far from their dangerous best. Davis has apparently been suffering from illness leading up to Round 1. Hopefully we can see him return to his damaging best. The forward line never fired up. None of Cloke, Medhurst and Fraser was influential and Fraser in particular seemed to lack a bit of drive, whilst Medhurst is definitely lacking from a bit of match conditioning after an interrupted pre-season.

What stood out to me against Adelaide is that Collingwood seemed top heavy down back. They played six talls. Melbourne are currently lacking a really tall forward line and Goldsack had to make way to make room for Heath Shaw who missed round 1. It has been quite some time since Heath has played senior footy, so it will be great to see him return.

Ben Reid hasn't done enough to earn his spot. Malthouse used him in defence and forward, but he had little influence in either position. His spot will be taken by Anthony Rocca eventually. Rocca played a VFL practice match last week and booted 6 goals, this was not enough for him to return straight to the senior side.

Bryan failed to hold his spot in the ruck after an ordinary game against Adelaide but unfortunately for Cameron Wood, he may have to wait until he can prove himself in the VFL before earning his spot again.

Melbourne's greatest hole seems to be the forward line. Without Neitz and Robertson, and with number 1 draft pick Jack Watts seemingly off the selection radar, the need for an influence up forward is pressing. Petterd was impressive as a lead-up forward considering the fact he had an injury ravaged 2008. Miller had little influence against the Kangaroos and will be required to step up to present a tall target. Paul Johnson is an imposing figure and will be used as a tall target between ruck stints as well.

Colin Sylvia was left out of the round 1 squad and has been selected although the word was that his form in the VFL was not up to scratch. He comes in because Wonaeamirri is still recovering from injury and Addam Maric hasn't yet played out a full game at Casey.

Despite the lack of key talls, Melbourne may actually look to exploit Collingwood's lack of small defenders by playing a small forward line. The likes of Davey, Jetta, Sylvia, Petterd etc up forward will no doubt worry the Pies.

But there is no doubt the major concern for Melbourne at the moment is contested marking. It was reported in the paper this week that Hamish McIntosh doubled the entire tally for Melbourne in terms of contested marks. He took 2. Incredibly, Melbourne was only able to clutch 1 contested mark in the whole game! Finding the right targets is going to be their major concern.

The Matchups

Melbourne's greatest chance of victory lies in the midfield. If Collingwood gets first hands on the ball, they have the fire power to finish the game off. But Melbourne do have a few nuggetty midfielders who will cause some troubles for Collingwood.

I would like to see Collingwood tag Mclean. He had 36 disposals the last time these 2 clubs met and O'Bree will most likely go head to head with him.

Toovey v Davey – OK, before you all laugh at me hear me out. There is no one else on our list with the footspeed or defensive capacity to run with Davey. Toovey has closing speed and is a fantastic tackler. Davey will spend large periods of time in the forward line. Many are very critical of Alan Toovey, and I think it is undeserved. But for him to cement his spot in the side, then he has to take a big scalp early in 2009.

The other option is Harry O'Brien. Harry did a fantastic job on guys like Steve Johnson and was good on Porplyzia last week. I just fear that Davey will spend too much time in the midfield and expose O'Brien in this area.

Fraser v Johnson – Paul Johnson has the muscle, Fraser the versatility. Josh's game against Adelaide was below his usual output. I'm expecting a far greater return from Josh this week and he should dominate around the ground.

Bartram v Didak/Davis – Bartram got the tagging job on Brent Harvey last week and was fantastic. He restricted Boomer to 16 disposals, which is well down on his average. I think he'll be given the responsibility on one of the Pies dangerous small forwards.

Warnock v Anthony – The impressive young defender is most likely going to take whoever goes to Full Forward.

McDonald v Swan – James McDonald returned to some of his best last week with 23 disposals, 10 tackles and 6 marks. Swan also found some touch in the 2nd half. Both are hard nuts and I would love to see this matchup.

Pendlebury v Green

Maxwell v Bruce – Maxwell is playing as a midfielder now and is a good size matchup for Bruce. He is one of their more creative players, but is slightly out of form at the moment. Keeping Bruce quiet will go a long way to ensuring victory.

Other than that, its quite hard to do the matchup's against Melbourne. They are a young side and many players are still finding their footing and role within the team. That makes them a difficult team to plan for. It is hard to know what they will structure up like in the forward line.

The Wrap Up

Despite the glaring holes in the Demon side, they did play a good brand of football against the Kangaroos. They feel confident playing Collingwood and will be keen to put up a good showing in front of a large crowd. I hope a good crowd turns up. This is a Collingwood home game, but Melbourne fans need to come out and get behind their team early before it is too late.

I'll tip Collingwood by 30 points, but I think we'll see a close game for the majority of the match. Melbourne enjoy playing Collingwood. They feel they match up well and they often go in more hungry.

The midfield battle is the key for Melbourne. Collingwood won the clearances last week but lost the match. I don't feel the same will happen this week. If Collingwood gets first hands on the ball then their forwards are far too dangerous. Melbourne on the other hand have a suspect forward line who struggles to take contested marks.

It will be interesting to see whether Melbourne employ zoning techniques or flood or go man on man. It is becoming increasingly obvious that Collingwood struggles against the zone. I think we will see more and more clubs use this strategy against the Magpies.

[Freddy Fuschia 742]

Like it or not, there are a number of advantages when playing Collingwood that don't otherwise apply. The game will still get more publicity than most other games because we're playing against a sure fire publicity magnet. If the papers have nothing to write about then they always look for some beat up about the Pies. We also get to play on a Saturday and have that rare opportunity for a rest on a Sunday.

I'd be happy to play against this mob every second week.

[Spirit of the Demon 253]

It will be interesting to see whether Melbourne employ zoning techniques or flood or go man on man. It is becoming increasingly obvious that Collingwood struggles against the zone. I think we will see more and more clubs use this strategy against the Magpies.

Melbourne also struggles to combat the zone and doesn't appear to be particularly good at setting one up and exploiting it.

Maybe we'll see a bit of man on man football tomorrow?

[AzzKikA 2,371]

I think you are spot of Spirit, both the Dees and the Filth have problems when it comes to Zoning, hopefully it is drilled into them NOT to do any zoning coz they really suck at it!

[SidVicious 130]

Wet weather's our go.

We're in with a chance!

[Apocalypse XXXI 243]

Just a few weeks ago Dean Bailey was positively gushing about having close to a full list of players to select his team for the opening NAB Cup game. Last week, almost a third of the list was on the sidelines an unable to play either AFL or in the VFL game at Casey Fields. We heaved a sigh of relief when we saw the injury list after Sunday's loss against North Melbourne. In fact, two of the club's fastest young players in a team not noted for its leg speed will miss at the weekend - Colin Garland (leg) and Simon Buckley (groin). Surely, the dreaded curse is upon us again for the third year running?

Are we the only club that constantly cops injuries week after week, year in year out. I think only Essendon has had as bad a run as the one we're going through.

[45HG 1,539]

MCG - Wet weather? Not unless it's raining during the match

[H_T 3,049]

Are we the only club that constantly cops injuries week after week, year in year out. I think only Essendon has had as bad a run as the one we're going through.

You're not wrong. With an avatar like that, you should be posting more...