If I were Ben Holland I'd quit the club

[re draft molan 1]

Did you enjoy Yze's game today?

I was really hoping something would change in him after his long absence from senior footy, but I guess a leopard doesn't change his spots.

You gotta hand it to him though, the man sure does know how to get those free kicks working for him!

Same here, but when he had that flying shot at goal and someone was is a better position, I thought not. And looking at DB's reaction, he wont play next week either. Robbo or no Robbo.

[Pipefitter 2,163]

Dean Bailey played him in the backline for the first half, a mistake. ND tried. Didnt work. At one stage in the backline he got the ball from the ruck, ran 2 steps towards goal and realised he was at the opposite end. He is a natural forward, doesnt have the accountability. Leave him in the forward line FFS.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

Leave him in the forward line FFS.

Leave him in Sandy FFS!

They dropped Valenti, who ok, wasn't setting the world on fire but who at least chased, tackled and put his body on the line, and rewarded Yze with a game. It's like the Daniher 'back your senior players at all costs' era all over again.

Hopefully this was Bailey's way of saying "here's your chance to prove you can change". He hasn't. He's done.

[Pipefitter 2,163]

Leave him in Sandy FFS!

They dropped Valenti, who ok, wasn't setting the world on fire but who at least chased, tackled and put his body on the line, and rewarded Yze with a game. It's like the Daniher 'back your senior players at all costs' era all over again.

Hopefully this was Bailey's way of saying "here's your chance to prove you can change". He hasn't. He's done.

We cant exactly be picky and choosy with forwards seeing there are ZERO prospects coming up. He is a proven goal kicker and thats a fact. Milne is unaccountable but he has prob won a few games off his own boot.

[Guest unstable punt]

We cant exactly be picky and choosy with forwards seeing there are ZERO prospects coming up. He is a proven goal kicker and thats a fact. Milne is unaccountable but he has prob won a few games off his own boot.

Holland should have playede and certainly will next week, l'm dreading next week, the filth are gonna smash us

[Hards 2]

Well they're getting smashed regardless. Might as well get smashed with more youth than smashed with blokes that won't be around next year.

As for winning culture, you won't be able to build a winning culture until you get the requisite talent on the list. Footy is cyclical these days, winning cultures come and go as your team goes up and down the ladder.

If they're getting smashed with the right structure in place then that's fine, but if we're playing kids with no structure then its useless. Today our structure was horrible - it wasn't as if we had a kid in the position and he was struggling while he developed, we had simply no one in that position. That's crazy.

Some clubs maintain winning culture even when they are down. They do the fundamental non-negotiables right all the time, even if the players aren't yet developed or ready to execute properly.

And as for Yze, anyone who has watched more than 10 minutes of him play in the last 5 years knows he has to play as a permanant forward. Its his natural way to play and teams are too good now at exploiting running backs that don't defend. Look at Joel Bowden, exactly the same thing. With most of our deep forward line gone with injury playing Holland and Yze deep is about the best we can do for now. I wouldn't rush Newton in when he's fit until he shows at Sandy that he's willing to do the chasing, tackling and 1%ers that are required from a forward.

[jacey 333]

Ben Holland should play as a forward next week for structure's sake. (with Robbo going down)

Yze kicked goals from free kicks and against Ferguson?the kid who did well in the forward line b4 Ross Lyon threw him to the backline to test him out. (Stand to be corrected).

Yze. Done and dusted.

[paddo 0]

Gee we could have done with Benny in the forward line today!!

I was listening to 3AW on the way home from the game and they were basically saying that Yze should not play again because he has lost it. Having attended the game, I would have to agree.

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

Some clubs maintain winning culture even when they are down.

Name them.

Carlton and Essendon, the most successful clubs in AFL history, have been diabolical the last few years. Where's that winning culture?

[Hards 2]

Brisbane

Big impact retirements/trades (Aker), an ageing list, managed to blood new players (26 in the last two/three years I believe), and while missing the finals for the last three seasons, they'll be back again this year. And its not just the old firm carrying them, their return to the top of the league has coincided with the continued development of guys like Drummond, McDonald, Merrett, Harding, Patfull, Rischitelli, Roe, Corrie, Sherman etc etc

There are going to be down times when you rebuild, everyone goes through it. Teams that do it the right way aren't down for long and stay up for longer. Brisbane introduced about as much youth as humanly possible in the last few years, but they never moved away from their structure. If blokes retired or were out with long term injuries they put youngsters in their place, but they didn't completely change their setup. Bradshaw goes down so Brennan plays key forward. Brown get hurt so Mitch Clark steps in. My issue with what we did today was that we had found a structure that worked the last two games, and when Holland went out we didn't replace him.

Holland was injured, he couldn't have played, but someone genuinely needed to replace him. Not to kick 15 goals themself, but to provide a target or a foil to our other forwards and stop the Saints defenders zoning off to cut down our only 6"0 option.

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

Brisbane

Big impact retirements/trades (Aker), an ageing list, managed to blood new players (26 in the last two/three years I believe), and while missing the finals for the last three seasons, they'll be back again this year. And its not just the old firm carrying them, their return to the top of the league has coincided with the continued development of guys like Drummond, McDonald, Merrett, Harding, Patfull, Rischitelli, Roe, Corrie, Sherman etc etc

There are going to be down times when you rebuild, everyone goes through it. Teams that do it the right way aren't down for long and stay up for longer. Brisbane introduced about as much youth as humanly possible in the last few years, but they never moved away from their structure. If blokes retired or were out with long term injuries they put youngsters in their place, but they didn't completely change their setup. Bradshaw goes down so Brennan plays key forward. Brown get hurt so Mitch Clark steps in. My issue with what we did today was that we had found a structure that worked the last two games, and when Holland went out we didn't replace him.

Holland was injured, he couldn't have played, but someone genuinely needed to replace him. Not to kick 15 goals themself, but to provide a target or a foil to our other forwards and stop the Saints defenders zoning off to cut down our only 6"0 option.

39.4% winning percentage for the Lions during the 2005-2007 period. They were a rabble at times during this period, losing home games regularly and getting beaten convincingly on many occasions. They were never as bad as we are now because they have had superstars in Brown and Black to keep them going. But it shows that teams go through the cycles and it's how you manage the downward process that is critical in how quickly to climb back up.

Culture is important and there are different cultures in different teams, but you can only build a winning culture through talent. No club has a permanent winning culture. With the salary cap and draft all teams are going to go through rough patches.

PJ started forward in the Holland role. I see what you are saying in regards to structure and yes we need better forwards down there, but we really didn't get it forward enough to make a difference in the end. Our midfielders were smashed and their defensive pressure was pretty weak.

[Nasher 33,617]

You and I obviously have different approaches. I look at what's best for the club going forward, not what's best for the team right now.

I don't necessarily disagree Scoop, but as I said, the majority of AFL coaches would. Bailey has made it abundantly clear that he will still be doing everything he can to get wins on the board. With that in mind, the Yze selection should be easy to understand. You might not agree, but at least there's a reason behind it.

That said, Yze stunk on Sunday.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

That said, Yze stunk on Sunday.

Yes. I agree.

Alternatively, you could argue that Yze played exactly to expectations. Staged frees, no tackles, no defensive pressuere and junk time goals. No surprise.

It still raises the question that given what Bailey has been espousing, how a player who has diminished to playing spasmodically for easy soft ball gets is selected and what he brings in the modern game if you are serious about winning.

[titan_uranus 25,042]

I wonder if Holland will line up against Rocca again...

[Nasher 33,617]

I wonder if Holland will line up against Rocca again...

I'm hoping Holland will line up at Full Forward. We haven't anybody else.

[paddo 0]

I wonder if Holland will line up against Rocca again...

No. Throw down the gauntlet - give Matty Warnock the job and play Holland forward.

[bjgc 0]

I hope Holland was injured because if he was fit then what a disgraceful decision it was to drop him. He has to play this week.