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Cheers, will have a look tonight. Running out of spots at work to hide and come on here.

out of interest how long left on his contact?

I think everyone who supports this club wants everyone to improve. As we have seen Jones, Dunn, Watts and T-Mac have all improved greatly over the summer. A word/s used in association a lot with McKenzie is limitations or playing a role. Yes we all want McKenzie to improve but some of us think he will reach a point under Roos /Stone where he is getting the most he will be able to get out of himself, and for some that won't be enough. Then people will say give him time, how much time? The Hawks won last years flag and are a fair chance to go back to back. They didn't get to where they are by sitting idle, they traded in Big Boy, and many think they will make a play for a mid this year or hold out for Dangermouse next year. Teams like the hawks and Geelong always look to improve as it keeps them competitive. You don't draft for a tagger, they are normally mids who were considered to be good prospects and didn't quite cut it end up tagging. Steve suggested playing Jones on Ablett, why not, but I don't want Jones in that role every week. I suggested try Trengove(mids in form slumps often get given run with roles, they get led to the ball) then someone says he's to slow. Well Jordie isn't the quickest either. At the end of the day what you or I think doesn't hold much weight, the coaching staff will decide, we will know soon enough.

Carlton took Gibbs over Selwood. Nice to know were not alone.

What's that, 2 no.1 draft picks failed to deliver again?

His game has gone to a new level this year, used to get caught a bit with the ball, this has changed. Disposal and general awareness has improved. Having Cross, Tyson, Viney ect help. The goal he kicked on Saturday was a ripper, hope to see more of them.

I think my example of effective handballs v ineffective kicks shows how either side can use stats for the purpose of what they believe to be the case.And no, im not here under differant aliases, there's not enough hours in the day. If Jordie lines up on Ablett I hope he does well but as stated by someone earlier win loose or draw you should always look for areas to improve as a team.

- you mentioned Jordie's disposal efficiency was at 70?%, so i made the point was that for kicks of handballs, that stat is combined total, a player could have 7 effective handballs and 3 ineffective kicks and suddenly he's at 70% disposal efficiency. Sound familiar?. - my point about tackles shows again that stats can not tell the whole story. In the second half out tackling improved, first half I thought most tackles were ineffective. Again a combined stat. I also have the ability to think for myself and formulate my own opinions. What coaches say to the media isn't always what's discussed behind closed doors. I would like to think during the match review these ineffective tackles are identified, clubs like the Hawks, Freo and Geelong wouldn't overlook the importance of an effective tackle. What I said with regards to Jordie stands, again it's purely my opinion.

We won the tackle count for the game but in the first half I would say most tackles laid by the majority of players were ineffective. If a player can dispose of the ball for mine it's an ineffective tackle. Stats can work both ways. I'm comparing Jordie to what I consider to be a base level of skill for AFL. If we want to move up the ladder players if his ability or less must be moved on. As far this season is concerned he's here, he's fit and other players are injured or being made to understand so he gets a game.That much I get.

Are you talking handballs travelling up to a metre or his pinpoint kicks?

Last year or early this year I dragged up Jordie's tackle numbers are they were less than flattering. Disappointing considering it's all we are really asking of him. As has been mentioned we all appreciate his efforts but we must look for other options .

Well Trengove can tackle, mark and kick better than Jordie. So that's a start. As for speed, it's not something I associate with Jordie. I actually like Steve's idea of running Jones with him. If Jordie must play send him to Jäger.

It reminds me off the movie Bruno when he interviews the model. "If must be really hard being a model, left foot then right foot then........oh that's right left foot again.To lay a tackle- firstly get close to your opponent, secondly put both arms around the opponent in am attempt to stop the disposal of the ball, thirdly put the opponent into the ground. Wow that was difficult.

How about Jordie becomes this tackling machine I keep hearing about.

I hope he does improve, I hope everyone improves, but I think some are kidding themselves on here. Yes it was a good win considering how we have been travelling. But we are still way of the pace and I think when Trengove returns he should be tried in a tagging role, in place of McKenzie. It couldn't hurt. He would be more damaging going the other way. Making opposition stars more accountable. All players need to tackle and not let the opposition dispose of the ball, if they are able to the tackle is useless.

Appreciate the reports, cheers.

You banged on in the McKenzie thread about how he smashed Ablett, how underrated he is.....yet in your team he starts on the bench. Is Ablett starting on the bench?

He can get a game while others are being made to find form but if all mids are fit and in form he shouldn't be playing.

Jordie carrys out his role better than anyone else in the team? I can only hope the coaches don't share your view.

After one win Jordie enjoys stardom status. I'll say it again, Pendles , Kennedy, Watson, Ablett, Barlow , Selwood can rack up huge numbers and still manage more tackles then a player who's primary role is a stopper. We know he tries but he is not the tackling machine some on here would have you believe. He's never going to be better than an average player. Bring Trengove back in and give him McKenzies role against Ablett. At least he might hurt them going the other way.

Well if it's confidence I don't get it. When he has attacked the ball he can elude the opposition, it's not like he's getting caught all the time. The coaches should be showing him highlights of himself and say "more of the same please".

you're right about choosing his contests, just wish he would choose a few more.

So he's the only midfielder who can beat his opponent. Care to share?

Stats can be deceiving, Carlton racked up cheap stats going sideways and backwards.

Interesting reading in this thread and the player votes. Whilst not getting carried away we are starting to see the start of what could be considered depth and flexibility in some of our players. Finally a first year player (Salem) isn't rushed into the side from rd 1 and expected to be a star. Toumpas is back finding some form and Trengove is hopefully discovering why he was picked at 2. Garland to come back soon and he is down back when Hogan plays we could have three talls with Dawes and Chip. JKH must start, small forward is a specialist position, this was his first game playing with a recognised tall. Tackling is improving(effectiveness not numbers). Still some loose checking at times but again we improving each week. Would like to see us rattle the Suns.