deelusions from afar

I assume Farmer's son is heading to freo also. Such a shame - would love to have another Farmer running around at the dees

Do we still have any that are in our zone - what picks would we need to use to get them?

I agree. But is tomlinson able to take contested marks - he seems to have gone out of the side due to lacking the competitiveness we require

Not a huge fan of brown but with Tmac out I think he has to play otherwise Weid will cop too much heat. Weid plus Jackson/Tomlinson/Smith forward doesn't fill me with confidence. If I had to guess, I would say Smith because the football department seem to love him and there's no room for him down back. (Unless he comes in as a small defender for Jetta)

Reading between the lines I reckon we will definitely bring in another key forward to replace TMac. My gut feel is that they will bring in Brown. I suspect they won't want two young / inexperienced key forwards taking on hawthorn's experienced defence with Frawley, Sicily and dare I say it Frost.

Not sure what people with this type of view were expecting from Kozzie. He's in his first season! We knew when we drafted him that he's not a high possession player (although apparently he racked up the stats in a scratch this year when moved on ball). Goals are nice but if he's handing them off to other players in better positions then he's doing his job. He chases, tackles, shepherds, bumps, uses the ball well and has potential to be an aerial threat. Of the forwards, surely Melksham and Vanders are more likely to be dropped on form.

I'll take the bait. He was directly involved in a number of our goals and seems to have the opposition a bit jittery with his pressure. Sure he's not perfect - but it's his first season and he's playing one of the hardest positions to play. He's definitely exceeding my expectations for a first year player in that role. Who would you bring in for him that will do any better? Hunt? Spargo? ANB? None of them can do what he does

They don't have to be - but that's the way the FD tends to go (remember Goodwin talking about Harley only getting a game against Carlton as the others that play the same role not being fit / ready / available). Obviously it will come down to matchups but Hawthorn have the potential to have multiple dangerous small forwards (depending on where they play eg Wingard and Puopolo etc). If not Jetta who would you feel comfortable doing this? And I know May can do it, but if he doesn't take a key tall, then it means Lever does and we all know that's not ideal! And when you say Nev got annihilated by a first gamer... he won't be the first one to be by that player. And do you know who Lockhart played on? Being unsighted as a defender is not necessarily a bad thing if his dangerous opponent is equally unsighted.

Cant understand people saying to drop Nev and Lockhart - Rivers and Tomlinson play different roles. Although Nev is not at his best, I would back his experience to do better than any alternative. Lockhart has shown he has all the attributes to be a very good small defender going forward - let him play with the rest of the backline for a bit and see what he can do once he's settled. Yes he has got caught a few times for holding the ball but he is quick and seems to have reasonable awareness - I put this down to not wanting to release the ball unless he can get it to a player in a better position which is a good trait. I like the look of Rivers but he seems more to be battling Hibberd for that role - and Hibberd has shown in recent weeks why he is in front (for the moment).

I found it interesting but as others have said, as he was there last year and the problems are hardly new, then I'm sure Goody and co would be aware of the "solutions". Not saying they won't work... but it's easy to make left field suggestions and say that it will fix the problems. I get the sense that they believe (rightly or wrongly) that they have the right plan and team to play well and it's not quite clicking at the moment. (yes we were lucky v carlton but despite being well beaten were not far from snatching it against richmond or geelong). Once the cohesion and synergy is there, things will improve dramatically - which I suspect is why they're not wanting to drop players after one poor game and/or make lots of positional moves on game day. They want to back in the system they've worked at all summer - like it has eventually for other teams in recent years. I think the part that I found most interesting was the idea of not doing a full ground defensive press when the other team has the ball - I understand the attraction of causing front half turnovers but defending the whole ground is exhausting and difficult when you're not as quick as your opponent. Let them pick their way through our flood and then allow our medium size forwards loose on the counter attack.

I know some people won't like it but pragmatically I think we should trade one of Viney or Brayshaw at the end of the year if this helps us get a decent key forward (better than what we already have) and/or a skilled pacy midfielder. In terms of maximising value we probably should have done this at the end of last year. We have a surplus of inside mids - there's no room for Jones in there (though admittedly he's not the player he once was) and Harmes has been forced to play HBF because Viney and Brayshaw can't play anywhere else. Plus we have the likes of Jordan and Sparrow who have shown enough promise to warrant games. Although recruited as a potential HBF it looks like Jordan will be another inside mid from what he did in the VFL last year. Would be sad to see either Viney or Brayshaw go - but how do they realistically fit into the structure going forward. At trade time, you have to give something to get something.

While I am concerned about TMac's form (I think if he can recapture the 2018 form we suddenly become a contender). But aren't many of the designated key forwards struggling at the moment?

I think it's strong in terms of talent but heavily diluted due to the academy and FS picks. It's probably not a bad year to go for a few speculative picks as it will be even more of a lottery than other years.

This is not a thread about season 2020 being over therefore looking at who we might get in the next draft but more regarding what do people think is likely to happen. This year is going to be more compromised than ever before. We are told that the upcoming draft is one of the strongest ever (I know they regularly say that) - especially with many father-son and academy picks. - there is a chance that the draft hopefuls will not be playing this year and if they do play they will play far less than previous years - so much of the intelligence on the draft hopefuls will be based on how they were going last year. And we all know of players that dominated as a 17 year old but fall away in their draft year. - there's talk of the lists likely to be smaller as a result of covid 19 - which means there will be a surplus of free agents floating around - Melbourne has traded its first pick to North Melbourne - either thinking that we were going to perform far better this year and/or figured that the draft pick is less value this year due to all the father/sons and academy picks. How will this play out at the end of the season?

One thing that surprised me is that Tomlinson said HB he's probably the best stoppage player going around - if he's getting the chance to play in the guts in match sims, he's not exactly being wrapped in cotton wool!

As much as I love them all, if this doesn't work out (and potentially even if it does), one of Viney or Brayshaw are likely not to be at the club next year. Both great players but unlike Oliver and Petracca, they can't really play anywhere else but in the guts. Both had a lot of injuries so perhaps haven't seen their best in a while... but our inside midfield stocks look solid with harmes going to defence and the likes of Jordan and Sparrow not being able to crack into the team.

I wonder if Goldcoast didn't have pick 2, whether we still might have taken Jackson anyway?

I find it interesting that they have Lockhart training as a small defender (from reports). To me this suggests that they must intend to draft at least one specialist small forward and maybe even two. I thought Lockhart is one of the few on the list that might be able to play this role - too early to know if Bedford, Chandler etc will make it but it's one of the hardest positions to play so the odds are stacked against them in any case.

Trying to follow... are you saying GWS might trade pick 4 for two of our picks?

Is it just me or do others think that our "forward line issues" are really just the outcome of problems further up the ground? McDonald was poor in 2019 and Weid didn't come on like we hoped, but my memory of the games - particularly early in the season was terrible inside 50s and a low number of them compared to 2018. I honestly don't think the best forwards in the game would have made much difference. I think Fritsch and Melksham playing most games forward in 2020 will make a huge difference (and potentially injury free Hannan, Smith and McDonald) - but I think it is more about the additions of Langdon and Tomlinson (and maybe someone like Young) who give us a bit more run so that we are not so pressured and fatigued when kicking inside 50. Obviously some improvements / upgrades on the small pressure forwards locking the ball in wouldn't go astray either. Get the midfield run and delivery right and it won't matter whether we have A grade key position forwards - Weid and McDonald are good enough.

No we trade 3 for GWS's 6 (plus the best deal we can get e.g. next year's first rounder and anything else). We then use 6 (and whatever else from received from GWS) to trade for Freo's 7 and 10. Then we pick the three kids we want with picks 7, 8 and 10 - we miss a couple but there doesn't seem a clear consensus on the order of them in any case. Worst case scenario if GWS or Freo don't trade and don't match our bid, we end up with Greene and/or Henry - very unlikely and not a bad outcome in anycase!

I still think we'll do some deals on the night with Freo and potentially GWS so that we convert 3 and 8 into 7,8 and 10. If it's as even as people say around these picks then at least we get 3 goes at it - Freo and GWS would be open to a deal due to their Academy picks.

I get the sense that we don't rate these players in the same order as other clubs so who we would pick with 3 might still be there at 6 or 7. I'm hoping we do deals with GWS and then Freo to end up with 7, 8 and 10 rather 3 and 8. That way we're likely to get 3 of Young, Serong, Ash, Kemp, Stephens, Weightman (or anyone else I've missed).

Agree that threats aren't the way to negotiate (and not Mahoney's style). It only works if we rate Henry and are genuinely prepared to take him. Given we have another top 10 pick and we need a small forward (and have suggested this is what we'll target in the draft) I think he might be on our radar. I'd love to get him as he seems like a very good prospect - but there's lots of draft experts that follow it closer than me.

I imagine we wouldn't mind landing Henry - what if GWS trade 6 and next year's first for pick 3. We might then threaten to use 6 on Henry. Could this be enough to prize 7 and 10 out of freo (we might need to give up next year's first from GWS?)