deelusions from afar

I might be missing something here. But why wouldn't Goldcoast just redraft him (assuming they can fit him in - and they finished 18th so surely they can!). Even if he sits out the year sulking on $700k (or whatever Carlton are prepared to pay him), they will get another early pick in compensation when he leaves for Carlton at the end of the year. So say they finish bottom, it would end up being another top 2 pick? Maybe someone who knows the rules can clarify.

Wrote this before seeing your post GawnDog... good minds think alike! Got a theory – so bear with me! I think there will be fireworks on the trade night. 1. Melbourne has made no secret that we are after small forwards – particularly with publicly chasing Elliot. That in itself is strange because our pattern the last few years is to only allow the speculation (leak to media?) when we know we are going to get our target (Lever, May, Langdon & Tomlinson). 2. We have a history of bidding on academy players (not sure exactly which ones - Heeney, Mills?) so to say we will do again cannot be dismissed as bluff. 3. We have 2 picks in the top 10 – if Greene is as good as reported, it would not be a terrible thing to get him at 3 if GWS don’t match and we can still target the outside run with / small forward with 8. 4. GWS and Geelong are clearly interested in our pick 3 (it’s likely others such as Sydney would be too). Reportedly, GWS offering 6 and next year’s first round is not enough for us to trade 3. Well played! 5. The draft “experts” have said the best small forwards are Liam Henry (Freo academy) and Cody Weightman – depending on what you believe Melbourne rates Cody as high as 3 and others believe he will go as late as around pick 28. 6. Fremantle hold picks 7 and 10. 7. Unlike some years, there seems to be little consensus among the draft “experts” as to the best players from 3-12ish. Is there a way we could trade pick 3 and end up with 7 and 10 (while keeping 8)? Given the reported evenness of the draft, I think this would be an enormous win. How do we do this? Probably smarter minds than I would have a better idea. I don’t think Freo would trade 7 and 10 for 3 (and probably wouldn’t believe we would nominate Henry at 3) but if GWS believe we will take Greene at 3, then they will be forced to offer us a deal we can’t refuse – pick 6, next years first + anything else they have / can trade for. We then have 6 and 8 and tell Freo we will nominate Henry with 6 – because picking him at 6 would not be a terrible thing for us at all. He is reportedly a gun and fulfils our need. They trade us 7 and 10 for 6 (not sure how much of what else we’ve received from GWS would need to be part of the deal). They can then draft someone with pick 6 and Henry with their next pick - 22 (I think that’s right?). We can then use 7,8 and 10 to get Weightman and 2 of Serong / Stephens, Flanders / Ash / Kemp / Young / whoever else I’m missing

Will be interesting to see what they do with S Selwood - they seem to use him a bit as their pressure forward of late with reasonable success... but surely they would want him in the centre stopping Oliver or Brayshaw

After the injuries over the weekend, it got me thinking that although very unlucky for the individuals concerned (particularly the battles Tyson and Kent each have had this year and had seemingly overcome), we had dodged a bullet in terms of the injured players not de-railing our finals campaign – perhaps it is easier to say this with Viney ready to go and Hannan looking like he will come back in for Kent. Maybe Tyson is a chance in any case. It got me thinking about who is the most valuable member of the side – not the best player – but the player who if they went down to suspension or injury, it would have the most detrimental impact to us. Obviously this is something that changes constantly with development, form and number of games played – AvB has been enormous since coming back in but has only played a few games & Harmes has hit a purple patch… do we measure him at this standard now, is there a like-for-like replacement on the list if they are out, how important is the running capacity of ANB or other role players, how experienced they are (I don’t put great weight on this) etc. I have Hunt last in this list, but I feel like up to halfway through last year he would almost have been top 5. Hopefully he can get back there next year. It’s interesting to ponder – not just in terms of the players we’d least like to lose in the finals but also those who have missed a significant amount of footy this year. Anyway, here’s my list as of form to date this year. Would be interested to hear other people’s thoughts. 1. Gawn 2. Oliver 3. Tmac 4. Hibberd 5. Viney 6. Lever 7. Brayshaw 8. Harmes 9. Hogan 10. Jetta 11. Melksham 12. Salem 13. Frost 14. Fritsch 15. AvB 16. ANB 17. Petracca 18. Omac 19. Lewis 20. Jones 21. Weiderman 22. Spargo 23. Kent 24. Stretch 25. Tyson 26. Vince 27. Smith, J 28. JKH 29. Garlett 30. Pederson 31. Smith, T 32. Wagner 33. Hunt

Good post. I found this interesting too. I took it more to mean that he is well aware and doesn't want the media to look into it so it becomes "a thing" - so just dismissed it. Clearly it would be a concern. I'm also concerned we seem to be worse at the MCG than we used to be - given it is our home ground and where the GF is played this clearly is not deliberate. I'm hoping it is more about tidying up our weaknesses e.g. defenders having confidence in each other and therefore not flying together, Tmac / Weid straightening us up & perhaps adding some more speed to the team - Viney & whoever makes it out of J Smith / Frost / Baker / Stretch at the expense of the slowest (Lewis / Vince / Tyson). Maybe (hopefully) these things will be enough for us to get our "game plan" to click at the MCG. Because the current style of kicking to the boundary (same side every time) and backing your inside mids to win it every time is far too predictable, leads to poor and wide I50s and will not stand up against anyone in September.

"...The 41-year-old Goodwin, entering his sophomore season as senior coach..." I hate this American jargon being brought into our sport. Why wouldn't they just say second? Looks like Fox Footy are trying to squeeze a little more out of this non story. The headline and article are over the top when you read what Goody's quoted as saying.

And if not Jayden, I would go after Hibberd. Hibbo sets up so many of our plays from defence. I remember noticing in the Adelaide game how he peeled off his man and even ran away from the contest time and time again to be the free kicker once the ball was won in defence. I know others commented on his low tackling stats - it's not that he can't but he's more valuable to be allowed to use his skills. I'm not sure of the stats but it seems like no team has really tried to stop him do this so far. I would think that if you were coaching against Melbourne it would be worth having a defensive forward mind him at all times / or try to use whoever his man is to make him more accountable. The rest of the backline grows in confidence with the ball in hand knowing they can always go to him to get them out of a tight spot.

Wonder if we can tempt a team (who we predict are on the slide) into trading their first round pick for next year in a similar vein to the Saints did with the Hawks last trade period - even if it involves sacrificing our first pick this year. Everyone seems to be more excited about next years draft (although often this is the talk early in the championships) but there are a number of teams that will need extra picks to land the big name players bandied around. Next year we still have the likes of Smith and Maynard to come into the side and Weid should continue to develop so could we leverage into getting two first rounders for next year in a stronger field. Thoughts?

I heard Mason Cox only played a half in the VFL on the weekend - what is the chance he will be a late call up?

Agree - Frost caused a number of errant kicks from the Giants that resulted in turnovers. Like Garlett, his defensive skills only work when the rest of the team is 'on' and playing their role - if we have everyone manned up / covered with our zone then the defenders running it out need a bit more time to assess the options and dispose of the ball. It's in these moments that Frost gets them as they don't expect someone of his size to get to them that quickly and they sh!t themselves! If he can kick a goal or two here and there and keeps up the pressure efforts then he is more valuable than the stats would say.

I don't have a particular liking for Frost but I think his contribution to the team is undervalued on here - there were a number of pressure efforts that don't lead to stats that he did which directly lead to turnovers - I noticed this a number of times in the first quarter. Having said that, it would make things a lot easier if he could clunk a few more marks and be a threat kicking for goal!

Multiple draft threads but thought this fits best here. Obviously hard to pick how a player will develop when they're 17-18. It's interesting hearing that people think the likes of Curnow or Francis could develop into a tall midfielder (a la Fyfe). Thought it might be interesting to compare what people were saying about Fyfe around this time of his draft year. For those of you that remember, it was a bit of a surprise Freo taking him as early as 20 - some suggesting young ruck / forward prospects Gawn and Fitzpatrick were on their radar and of course we'd just got Tapscott at 18! From Quigley on Big Footy - http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/2009-big-footy-official-phantom-draft-the-real-deal-selections-only-thread.649044/page-2 From AFL draft info - http://afldraftinfo.blogspot.com.au/2009/10/nat-fyfe-claremontwa-draft-profile.html It's funny reading some of his weaknesses back then knowing what he's become eg tendency to fumble, concern about ability to bulk up, does not win many possessions etc and his potential was rated as "6-8.5 out of 10" (love to see the player with potential of 9.5!)

I'm not having a go at Knightmare or this thread... but I always find it interesting comparing these write-ups to players we know down the track - who could forget Sylvia's?? This was by Knightmare in the middle of 2012: The description is of exactly the type of player we need! Does this mean it's worth trying to get a bit more out of Toumpas... or should we be a bit wary of these types of write-ups... or neither / both. I'm no expert with this but the way the game is going I like the sound of a Curnow type... although I suspect the comparisons to Stringer are equally unfounded

As crazy as it sounds, I don't think being able to "coach" in the traditional sense of the word is necessarily a high priority for afl coaches these days. You have development coaches, people who assist with the game plan, forward, back and midfield coaches, recruiting staff and scounts, fitness people etc.... the key is being able to manage people. From what we've heard, this was one of Neeld's biggest weaknesses (although admittedly he didn't have the right structures of PJ, experienced assistant's etc around him) Obviously you have to have the passion, drive, knowledge of the game etc Most of us here have no idea about who's best suited as we don't see the inner workings of the foot club or know the potential candidates personally. However, looking from the outside, given where both Ling and Kirk have come from in the early stages of their careers (as fringe players) to be premiership captains and galvanise their respective groups that were/are both seen as setting the standard for culture in the comp, they would seem to have as good a background as anyone around. For me where the likes of Buckley, Hird, Voss never had to struggle (they were always stars), Kirk and Ling had to modify their game to become greats not only at their club but in the competition. I think they would well placed to relate to all members of a playign group. From what we know, they seem to manage relationships and people very well too.

I've been a Dees man all my life. Like most on here I don't know what to do with myself at the moment. Since the end of the Daniher reign it has been incredibly tough. The pain of losing burns so much... I try to come up with coping mechanisms so it doesn't hurt. I try to think "it's just a game", "the only real connection i have with the club is that i go for them - and that's only cos my dad goes for them" but it doesn't really work. The news about Mitch Clark is extremely sad. In the case of Frawley, I don't think I overrate him - he is one of the best defenders in the game, yet because he is at Melbourne he doesn't get the support from the rest of the team that he would at other clubs. Part of me doesn't blame him at all for leaving - he's has stuck it out for so long, heard the new spin from different coaches, admin staff etc his whole career.. he is a wasted talent at Melbourne. It's not as if he didn't have a crack. Since when is this approach as a supporter ok? How do you cope? You can look at the positives - Paul Roos, better player development, clearer plan, smart recruiting in off season, going to take time - will see improvement in the second half of the year etc Or you can look at the negatives - who could we beat this year? injuries, not compeditive, culture of club completely shot I tend to swing from one to the other frequently. Would love to have some tips on how everyone else gets through this.

This isn't specifically referring to Roos but say we were able to come to a conclusion about the senior coach before the end of the season (whether it's Roos, Chocco, Eade or whoever). Could this give whoever it is (assuming they walked out on their club if they are involved elsewhere) more of an advantage than other new coaches (eg able to see behind closed doors at training / match days etc I know it is highly unlikely to play out this way as Collingwood and Richmond won't let the likes of Eade and Chocco leave their clubs mid season or just before the finals and it puts Craig in a very strange position... but I can't think of a time when a coach has been sacked so early into a season - especially given that Melbourne is almost guaranteed not to have the interview process like we have had for Bailey and Neeld - we are going after a known quantity with runs on the board. How do we use this to our advantage so that the new coach coming in does not have to coach us for a year to know exactly who to trade, delist and draft. You could say it's obvious from watching our games but different players respond differently to different coaches and so some players in line for trade / delisting may be important players under our new coach.

Ok so maybe I need to stop flogging a dead horse... it's just frustrating to see one dark day after the next and not have a way to contribute to it turning around. I'm sad to see Neeld go... in the same way I was sad to see Bailey go. Maybe if given time things would have eventually turned around - we will never know. I don't see Roos as the answer to all our problems. But assuming he is interested in coaching us (a big assumption), his record speaks volumes - not merely in terms of the premiership but in his ability to create a culture that is still so strong at Sydney. Does anyone else think that Watts, Gysberts, Trengove, Blease etc would be different players if they started and played their careers at Sydney? Would Jetta, Kennedy, Richards etc would be the players they are if they had of come to Melbourne?? Roos isn't the only one to have create the Sydney culture... but he certainly had a lot to do with it. If this is a bad idea, just say so and i'll put this away. But to me it's one way of demonstrating that even if our admin and footy department are a mess, our fans and members (the only constant in a football club) are strong passionate and ready to (again) put their money on the line for the club.

It's enough for people to be suggesting Dion Prestia... but to say Shiel as well?? If Prestia's family have some ties at the club there's a tenuous link but why the hell would Shiel want to come to us (over ANY of the other 17 clubs) and why would GWS let him go? I know we need a good news story / hope at the moment but this is ridiculous - we're only setting ourselves up to be disappointed. I'm not saying it's not worth trying but let's not get carried away!

Who is "the club" these days?

Bates Mate - I agree. The problems go so much deeper than the coach / football department. At the same time I think to the end of the season and assuming Neeld is not there, who can give the players, supporters, potential sponsors, future board members confidence that they can turn it around. Everyone has heard the same words eg "patience" "experience differential" etc since Daniher's last years. Unless it's from the mouth of someone who has done it before (not just been in the same room) it comes across as hollow as we've been there too many times before. There are others than Roos - Clarkson? Lyon? Woosha? Scott? But I'm not sure any are looking to move. Maybe making it about more than just Roos would be smarter - but I don't think it would cut through on social media in the same way. GNF: To be honest I don't know a lot about this but I assume it's fairly easy to setup. Pozible look after the $$$ until the pledge amount is reached. Most have a good video that use to spread the word online. Maybe Russel Howcroft knows how to do that! I think it could work. But it also feels like it is the wrong time - to do this in the first half of the season or before there is an announcement that Neeld won't be there in 2014 might cause more problems (if that is possible).

I have an idea. I should preface this with like I did for Dean Bailey I really feel for Mark Neeld now. Who knows if he stepped in to a team with better resources or one that didn't have such a damaged culture, he (or they) may have made great coaches. I think Neeld knew the culture was the biggest issue when he started and was the first coach we've had to say he wanted to address it from the outset. To have Jimmy's passing, the racism row, losing sponsors, tanking saga etc in his first season made it the toughest job in footy before the ball is even bounced! But for whatever reasons and whoever's fault it is I just can't see it turning around for Neeld now. I think it is clear our next coach has to be someone experienced - if Paul Roos is a possibility then it has to be explored. Personally I don't think he would want to... but if there's any chance maybe this could help us get it over the line. From what I've heard the AFL would encourage it if they saw the ground moving. The idea below centres around Roos - it could work for any high profile coach (I'm just using him as a hypothetical) although I'm not sure if anyone else could garner the same kind of support. Welcome to the world of Pozible - a crowdfunding platform and community for creative projects and ideas. If you haven't heard of it, you may have heard of the US version Kickstarter. How it works: They offer creative individuals, groups and organisations a way to raise funds through selling tangible and intangible rewards by hosting a project on Pozible. The projects must have a funding goal and a time limit (from 1 - 60 days) set by the project creator. During this time you spread the word about your amazing idea to your fans, friends, family and any strangers and sponsors you can wow with your pitch. Supporters simply register and help fund the project. If the target is not reached / project is not possible, then the money goes back to all the donors / contributors. So think about this: We have a campaign "Paul Roos to coach Melbourne in 2014" Melbourne has 31,700 odd members currently signed up. Obviously many of these are kids with no money but many also have deep pockets All love the club, are desperate for something positive, something that gives hope, something real. If our current members all gave an average of $50 to a campaign such as this, it would raise $1.5M This is not even factoring all the disillusioned, the past members yet to sign, MCC members who aren't signed up and many other supporters we have (think about the sea of red and blue we could get back when we played finals) And if Roos said he didn't want to coach at the end of it, all the money is returned. How much money would you be prepared to part with if you knew it would only be used if it guaranteed Paul Roos would coach the club? It's all a hypothetical but I know I'm damn sure I'd put more than $50 in. I don't know exactly how this stuff works but I assume the $$ would go to the football department's budget and the club would work out Roos contract separately. But it's more the symbolism of it - if something like this took off, it would get massive media coverage. If anything is going to, it could be the sort of thing that would entice Roos back into coaching. But at the very least, it would show the football world that although our on and off field team have been a basket case, the supporters are not. And we are going to do whatever it takes to turn it around. Is Pozible Possible? Be interested to hear people's thoughts?

Agree AF, rpfc's post was spot on. I found it interesting people comparing our side's experience (average games and age) to Port and Essendon when we played them - surprisingly for some there wasn't such a difference. Would be worth comparing the onball brigade of each team (games and age) and I think it would give us a much better indication of where our midfield is at.

On 3aw before he took his mark from the kick-in they were all talking up his ability to mark from whatever position he is in. Richo said he's the best mark in the game. Tony Shaw said something to the effect that he would be incredibly damaging if they left him one out in the forward 50. It sounds a bit ridiculous as we already have clark up there (and in future hogan / dawes) but I wonder whether this might be a bit of a plan B forward structure in future. If players such as Ablett / Modra managed to hold down FF, I'm sure Howe could. I don't think anyone can match his aerial / marking ability and if they can, they wouldn't have the speed / tank to go with him on the lead. Most games you'd want to back in your key big men and howe can contribute all over the ground... but wouldn't be a bad ploy to try if the forward line is not functioning.

I think a lot of the "smarts" of making decisions under pressure comes from a strong team performance. Anyone playing in our defence will look a bit lost at the moment due to the amount of times (and the speed) that it goes in there. Didn't see Strauss play today but from what I've seen he's certainly got a bit to offer. But until our midfield improves I can't see any change in the defence lineup making much difference

I like most of the people on here, I am just a supporter. Other than paying for my membership each year, there's little I can do to influence anything the team or the club does. Like many of you on here, in supporter terms I'm about as low as you can get right now. I clutch at whatever positive thoughts I can find as I know the alternative is unhelpful and destructive. I'm sick of the jokes at work, in the family and among friends I'm sick of everyone feeling sorry for me I'm sick of people trying to help me with my "problem" that i go for melbourne - eg "my mum has switched to the storm - she says she gets more back from the emotional investment" I'm sick of the scandals - merging, salary cap, leadership spills, changes of coach, the tanking, the alleged danking I'm sick of the spin and pre-season hype. I know the club needs to do it to get memberships but it was wearing thin more than 10 years ago But most of all I'm sick of losing! Back when I started following the club, whenever something bad happened - losing a big game, or some sort of turmoil, I always thought that in the long run this will build our character and on that final day in september it will mean that much more. I don't know anymore if we will get to that day - there are so many powerful forces at work and we are about as far away from powerful as you can get. BUT what I do know, is that if we ever rise up the ladder and win that premiership, I will let everyone know. Every person who has joked, patronised and tried to get me to turn away... I will let them know that this is what it means to be a real supporter. I will dance on their graves as we are down and out right now and we made it back. This is what keeps me going.