Watts Jurrah Dunn?

Can only hope Jamar hangs them up at season's end. What I'd give for a big strong aggressive ruckman that can win more than 5 possessions a game. Very ordinary pre 2010 and very ordinary after it.

We are just such a shallow and slow midfield and that's where it's won and lost. Cross, Tyson, Jones and Viney couldn't run out of sight on a dark night. The likes of Shiel, Treloar and Griffen had 5 meters on them in the blink of an eye. We are 3-4 quality midfielders away from being a good side. The Trengove, Toumpas and Cale Morton picks continue to kill us as they should be 3 solid AFL midfielders. It would be nice to be getting something out of the petracca pick as well but we know the bad luck there.

Toumpas was a rabbit in the headlights. His game was terrible whether he was pick 4 or pick 400. To not be able to work his way through the 2 v 1 near the goalsquare is really worrying for a guy entering his 3rd season following a "perfect pre-season".

Pick 7 would have been okay?! It would have been Christmas. For me Howe is a lot of gloss and not much substance. Will take the hanger but then miss the set shot from 35m out.

It's just a sick joke following this club. We put our best side on the park minus 2 or 3 players and can't beat a bunch of delists, rejects and kids that have been training together for only a couple of months. Matt Jones and Rohan Bail are not even at 'top up' player standard. Constantly overrunning the ball, fumbling, missing targets and giving away careless free kicks. Jamar and Gawn are ineffective. Gawn has 6 inches on his opponent, comes on fresh and can't get first hands to the ball. Toumpas is scared and slow. Just a pathetic bunch of losers.

I think 16th is spot on, depending on what happens with Essendon. I'll be disappointed if we don't pass the Bulldogs having lost Griffen, Cooney, Higgins, Liberatore and possibly Crameri, and I'd expect us to stay above the Saints. But with only 4-5 bona fide AFL mids (Jones, Tyson, Cross, Vince, and possibly Viney) I don't think we can surpass sides like GWS, Brisbane, Carlton, Adelaide etc. There's just not enough quality through the middle where games are won and lost. It won't be until the likes of Toumpas, Salem, Newton, Petracca, Brayshaw, Neal-Bullen, Stretch step up over the next 1-3 years and become at least B-grade midfielders that we will be able to move up the ladder. We also need another elite user of the footy off half back because sides will very quickly put work into Salem back there. I think Frost, Newton, Lumumba and Garlett will mean we kick more goals and are in games a lot longer. I also hope that by now we are not on the end of any 10+ goal drubbings. Very accurate to put Grimes in the gun as well. Has noticeably trimmed down so that he can cover the ground better but if his kicking doesn't improve his days are numbered. Hopefully he can come good as we know he bleeds red and blue.

Back on topic: Jetta Frost Dunn Salem McDonald Lumumba Cross Viney Toumpas Garlett Hogan Watts JKH Gawn Pederson Jamar Tyson Jones Newton Kent Grimes Sub: Vandenberg

This sort of thinking makes me break out in a cold sweat. The Simon Godfrey's of the world would be getting 5 year contracts so they have plenty of time to develop and you would be making minimal changes to the list year after year. You don't hold onto spuds simply because Jetta and Dunn turned it around later in their careers. If Grimes, Bail, Jones and McKenzie can't hit the side of a barn at 24+, having played football their whole lives, then they don't suddenly learn how to kick at 25 or 27. If you can't do the basics well then you don't have a future. Jetta and Dunn had very different issues to the players you've mentioned. Jetta's issues were injury/suspension and never getting a consistent run. Dunn's issue was never being allowed to settle into a position. Bail, Jones, Grimes, Terlich and McKenzie simply can't kick, and this can't be fixed.

Just amazed that people on here can accept a drop away like that in the 2nd half. We've won 40 games in 8 seasons, talk this up all week as though we're treating it as round 1, field a near full strength side and beat the bulldogs under 23 side by a kick. This was a chance today for a live kill. A chance for the toumpas's of the world to FINALLY play in a 15 goal win and get some confidence. If you don't beat up on the dogs today we will never beat up on anyone. There is clearly no ruthlessness or mongrel in this group.

We're paying 100% of the cap?!?! I don't care how front-loaded the contracts are, it's staggering that we've been able to pay a list that won 4 games last year 100% of the cap. How can we possibly be paying our players the same as what Hawthorn and Sydney are paying theirs?

While Grimes, M Jones, Bail and Mckenzie are anywhere near the stating 22 you're not going anywhere as a football club. 6 wins max if those blokes are getting a game. The pleasing thing is Newton & Vandenberg are already better players. Hopefully Brayshaw can displace another. Jamar absolutely pathetic. He and Gawn both seem incapable of being a presence around the ground. Can't see either reaching double digit possessions so I'd get 22 games into Gawn. Missing a shot from 2m out to out your team in front should be the end of Jamar. We need to win anything we can and for an experience player to miss that was just pathetic.

Salem barely touched it. Frost, Vandenberg, Newton and Hogan the positives. Grimes, M Jones, Bail, Jamar, Gawn and Toumpas the negatives for mine.

I appreciate TDI's training reports and admire his positive outlook, but some people think that the likes of Bail, McKenzie and Matt Jones, all well into their 20's, magically become good kicks in the pre-season. They see them hit targets on the training track under no pressure in January and February and think this will translate into games. Just take it with a grain of salt because you know that once the real stuff starts Grimes will be putting them out on the full, Bail will miss plenty he should kick, McKenzie will shank it from 15 meters out and Matt Jones will kick the ball at peoples feet. Aside from Hogan, it will be the development of Toumpas, Salem, Kent, Petracca, JKH, Newton etc that determines how many games we can win this year. If these young blokes that can kick can push McKenzie, Matt Jones, Bail, Grimes and eventually Cross out of the side we will improve.

What a terrific effort by Mitchell White beating home an experienced player and professional trainer like Lamumba. With that deadly left foot, decent height/build, and impressive running ability he certainly ticks a few boxes. Let's hope he can play!

We didn't get Tyson and pick 9 for pick 2. We also threw in pick 20 which, based on an article recently where Melbourne told the AFL Lewis Taylor was a backup for pick 9, we clearly would have used on Lewis Taylor if we'd retained pick 20. Tyson is a gem and I am really happy with the trade, but the constant talk about how we've cleaned up turning pick 2 into Tyson and Salem is wrong.

And some people on here wanted to honour Evans' contract. I went on like a broken record that it would be a terrible mistake if a rebuilding club was out of an even draft with only 2 live picks and Stretch. There will be good players available at 40, I kept stressing. Thank goodness the club did the right thing and moved Evans on.

That is interesting. It basically means the Tyson trade was Josh Kelly and Lewis Taylor for Dom Tyson and Christian Salem. FWIW I think it will turn out about even, and Tyson has delivered more immediate results as we've already seen. It puts a lot of those silly journos to shame though that praise Roos for turning pick 2 into Tyson and Salem.

With Brayshaw and McCartin at picks 2 and 3, and Barry and Evans gone, it's fair to say our most significant 'need' will be some outside class - possibly a pacy wingman that can kick, and a pacy half back flanker that can kick. Hopefully Stretch and Toumpas can come on over the next couple of years to help fill these roles but there is obviously a lot of development required. Without seeing any of the players in the range: I really hope that Connor Menadue (20-40 range) is still there at 40, if he is a bit of an Isaac Smith type. I like the sound of Dan Howe as a 191cm half back flanker if, as Paige says, he is a bit like Langdon from Collingwood. Tom Wilkinson from Sandringham (182cm Andrew Gaff-type elite runner) also sounds promising. At least we will know plenty about him given the Brayshaw and Tyler Roos connection.

Seems like GWS have achieved what they set out to do and upset the apple cart. I can tell you as fact they offered Geelong the following: 2 top 10 picks for Steve Johnson (Cats rang Stevie J but he insisted he wanted to be a 1 club player) 2 top 10 picks for Steve Motlop 1 top 10 pick and a 2nd round pick for any of Duncan, Caddy or Stokes 1 top 10 pick and a 3rd round pick for Blicavs (the Cats really rate Blicavs and turned it down)

Then they should get their head read, RPFC. I apologise if there is some sort of racial undertone here that someone will be offended by but Emma Quayle's article screams go home factor to me: Callum Twomey's rankings today have him at 24 due to the lack of exposed form. No exotic bets with pick 3. We have to build the cake with a "safer" local bet like McCartin, Lever or De Goey.

Given our kick ins and ball movement out of the backline has been atrocious for years what about Greg Broughton? Delisted by the gold coast because of the plethora of silky smooth back flankers on their list. Promised he'll be re-rookied. 28 years old. 105 games. Pretty durable this year playing 20 games, averaging 18 posessions a game at 80% efficiency. Played under Ross Lyon at freo so would understand defence. For mine, a better back flanker than Grimes & Terlich. With Lamumba, Broughton and Dunn in the back 6 we might actually be able to get it out of D50.

I'm rapt to know I'm finally following a ruthless club that doesn't hold onto list cloggers. Fingers crossed we never see the atrocious list management again that saw McKenzie and Jamar gifted 3 year contracts and Evans 2 years. As I said all along, it made no sense to me how a rebuilding club that's won 6 games in 2 years could employ the best Development Coach in the league but bring in only 3 kids with picks 2, 3 and Stretch. Thank goodness the Frost trade can now reach its full potential and Taylor has to prove his worth.

For every Jetta that magically turns it around after 5 years on the list there are 10 that won't and shouldn't be given the opportunity. Evans is a 6 ft dime a dozen midfielder with no point of difference. It was atrocious list management offering him anymore than 1 year at a time, just as it was giving McKenzie and Jamar 3 years.

Wow. I always thought we did the sensible thing and took Dom Barry over Jed Anderson because Barry had been living in Victoria for 4 years and might be less of a risk. Leave me out of Nakia Cockatoo for pick 3. Hopefully now we delist and re-rookie Evans and use pick 53.

But RPFC, in another post you spoke about how you can't see enough quality midfielders on this list come 2017. I couldn't agree more with you on this, and I believe we'll take Brayshaw and McCartin at 2 and 3, so where are the rest of the midfielders going to come from? We're going to pick into the 80's or 90's over the next couple of drafts? I would have thought picks 40 and 53 in a very even draft would be wonderful opportunities to add a couple of extra talented midfielders for McCartney to develop. I maintain that I would be staggered if a rebuilding club with the best development coach in the AFL only brings in 3 kids (Brayshaw, McCartin and Stretch) in an even draft.