Ouch!

This needs to be compared in context to what the pies are doing with their players also.... I suspect most teams are playing youth with a 60-70% game time. I also know that mathematically you can't play 22 players on the ground with 100% game time so until you compare to other teams and their strategies it's a bit of a nothing stat to me personally. i also don't pretend to know what the coaching staff are trying to do, but with several young and relatively quick half back types in the team and an extra tall, perhaps we are planning on a higher risk strategy around run and carry off half back and stretching their defence with some more height... Lumumba, Wagner, Salem, Hunt etc... We might be trying to play a higher tempo football brand... I still think that Oliver, Viney, Jones, Tyson feeding off Gawn is going to be a better clearance brigade than the pies mob. I didn't tip the Dee's,but I think I'll regret it come Sunday, I feel this should be a win.

I think the article is wrong Sue, From where I was sitting, the siren sounded before the ball hit his boot, the umpire was signalling no score well before the ball had gone through the goals. Goal umpire didn't see that and signaled a point before changing their decision

Another comment about yesterdays game is that I felt that the first quarter when Nth got a jump on us was almost as much about the fact that we set our defense up as we might normally do, but the first few goals were fired in from 50 or beyond, and I don't know if our zone was set up quite right. By the time we corrected things, we were 4-5 goals down and they already had momentum. In some ways I think it highlights also how well we did in the second quarter because North should have been aware of the impact of the wind, and yet we managed to put 9 past them before the half finished.

Another comment about yesterdays game is that I felt that the first quarter when Nth got a jump on us was almost as much about the fact that we set our defense up as we might normally do, but the first few goals were fired in from 50 or beyond, and I don't know if our zone was set up quite right. By the time we corrected things, we were 4-5 goals down and they already had momentum. In some ways I think it highlights also how well we did in the second quarter because North should have been aware of the impact of the wind, and yet we managed to put 9 past them before the half finished.

I think it is simply that Goldstein presents up forward more strongly than Gawn does at this point in his career.

There is an article on FoxSports site which said before Goldstein got 80 hitouts last year against GWS (without Mumford) Gawns effort would equalled the highest hitout tally in an AFL game. The fact that he did it against the reigning All Australian Ruckman indicates how good an effort it was. They reckon his game was better that Goldstein's game. http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/max-gawn-beats-todd-goldstein-in-ruck-battle-early-brownlow-contenders-round-3-footy-shorts/news-story/14582429ff747e9b93ffec1c904a7c9a Regardless of who won the battle between the two players, both players had pretty fantastic games, and both were huge to their respective teams....

It was before his mark and attempted pass to Hogan, Both came towards the bench, and got told to stay on the ground. At the time Watts was on the wing, and was stretching out the groin and looked like he was struggling a bit. He made it up forward and was doing some more stretching out in the leg/groin area.

Another thing I noted with about the 20-24 minute mark of the fourth qtr, both Hogan and Watts tried to come off the ground at the same time, both were sent back onto the ground and into the forward line to rest. it's not an excuse either, but Watts in particular was stuffed, and looked like he was cramping. Also on Stretch's effort in the last seconds of the game, it wasn't great delivery, but I think he was caught a little in between moving forward and working out the body contact that was to come from his opponent. He should be better for the experience.

Was at the game, took my daughter for her first game, and after the first quarter I felt like it would be her last she would want to watch... Got lumped in amongst a block of north supporters, but strangely knowledgeable... Second quarter was superb, no one has mentioned Vince but I thought he was one of our best players, especially in getting us going in along with Oliver and Viney out of the middle. Harmes and Salem were good, Lumumba a lot better this week. Gawn had a great battle with Goldy Whilst the Watts mistake was telling in the last, I thought Vandenbergs miss hurt more...no pressure. Watts had a pretty decent game. Hogan was impressive, and I thought our forward structure enabled him space to lead up. Interesting to note he spent several minutes in the first and third as a lose man in defence as well as starting in the middle at the opening bounce. Frost looked lost, missed a couple of marks he should have taken. Kent took time to get into the game, but was OK in the last. Should have won the game, but we still seem to hesitate sometime in taking the first option, and pass off to another player which puts pressure onto that player...feels like there is a lack of instinct sometimes, or fear to take the game on, and yet we only just missed out on toppling a top four club on the road!

Was at the game, took my daughter for her first game, and after the first quarter I felt like it would be her last she would want to watch... Got lumped in amongst a block of north supporters, but strangely knowledgeable ones Second quarter was superb, no one has mentioned Vince but I thought he was one of our best players, especially in getting us going in along with Oliver and Viney out of the middle. Harmes and Salem were good, Lumumba a lot better this week. Gawn had a great battle with Goldy Whilst the Watts mistake was telling in the last, I thought Vandenbergs miss hurt more...no pressure. Watts had a pretty decent game. Hogan was impressive, and I thought our forward structure enabled him space to lead up. Interesting to note he spent several minutes in the first and third as a lose man in defence as well as starting in the middle at the opening bounce. Frost looked lost, missed a couple of marks he should have taken. Kent took time to get into the game, but was OK in the last. Should have won the game, but we still seem to hesitate sometime in taking the first option, and pass off to another player which puts pressure onto that player...feels like there is a lack of instinct sometimes, or fear to take the game on, and yet we only just missed out on toppling a top four club on the road!

Not sure I would be able to make it out, but with Customs and Rockwall all being in the Salamanca 'district' it gives you a great selection of bars & restaurants in a short walk of each other, few places that are pretty decent: Barcelona, Cargo Bar (Pizza, Italian) Jack Greenes (Burgers & Beers) Watermans' Beer Market (Had my 40th here, great place! :)) Good luck!

Will be very interested to watch this game @ Bellerive Oval, was pumped about seeing my first Dees match for quite a few years prior to the loss on the weekend, not super fussed about the result, as on form and predictions North should win this, but how our boys respond to the loss is the more critical focus for me. The response this week at the selection table should be very interesting, changes have to be made, but Roos in the past has been prepared to allow players an opportunity to atone for the prior week, but cannot ignore the form of those pushing for selection in the VFL. The biggest problem I see at the moment is that you can't place a high priority on the form of the players in the VFL as they haven't even started the season. ANB got 36 possessions and had a solid game, but it was still a praccy match. Its a farce that the VFL is so far behind the the AFL season in starting!! All that being said, ANB and Dunn could be likely ins. I suspect Brawshaw will be looked at very carefully this week to assess whether he is up for the game, the selection committee may have also been a bit cute and thought that he could get an 'easy' game under his belt with Essendon, and got caught out. If Brayshaw doesn't look right then he needs to go back to the VFL and bring in some run from someone like Stretch or Hunt. Hope like hell they resist bringing Petracca in for this week, can't have players that are not match fit, but I get a sneaky suspicion they will be starting to look closer at Trengove. Dunno who misses out... too many candidates after last week.

Out:OMac In: Brayshaw or H. I think we were a little tall today, and Frost and Pedo up front clogged up the forward line. Watts is the third tall doesn't crowd Hogan as much. Against the bombers I don't think we need to load up with talls, and should not go like for like. Pedo can take CHB for next week, did a good job when moved there late I thought.

All Petracca has played since TAC Cup is a single match simulation at Casey, and yet people think that he is coming in next week? really?? the match committee is not going to bring him up to play next week as much as people would love to see it. Players have to earn a game, and I think he needs a few more credits in the bank before he gets a game. We all know he's exciting, but the kid has no match fitness at all... Oliver only managed what 58% game time today, we can't have two kids with limited game time.

Watching today's games in between chores and family commitments. Hoping for a good win today and another next week, before getting to seeing the Dee's playing down here in Tassie at Blundstone for round 3... Haven't seen a live game for a few years, and with a bit of confidence, and some momentum it should be a ripper!

I personally think that if Roos is saying things like this, and the club has instilled discipline in the group and all the players know what is expected, then all of the players whether it's Petracca, Watts, Stretch or whoever else at the club would be very clear that Roos is just reiterating the standards that the club... and most likely the players themselves have set. They would know that the message is something that they all need to take on.

Whilst I think the Dees can win this week, not sure if the argument of our players being older, fitter should be that significant given that the exact same thing would apply to their players... I think our players are confident going into round 1 which is significant, but again GWS would go in full of confidence also. Dees by 23

Schwartz was a fantastic player, and one of many exciting players we had 94-95. I always feel that losing him was doubly felt by taking Neitz away from CHB earlier than we would have wanted. His legacy as a champion of the MFC would have been that much better IMO if he had played a few more seasons as a CHB. I am only now getting the feeling that our current list is getting to the point where it could deliver what the 94-95 era never managed to do. .... trying to keep a lid on it though.

I thought I read something somewhere that Kelly and a couple of the other players were unlikely to be ready to play in the first few rounds of the comp due to limited preparation.

Hi Sue, You are correct, my words were trying to infer intent of the players to do something illegal from the outset. I suspect that the players knew things would have been 'right on the edge' they were asked to buy in as a group to the program and to keep it to themselves. But at this point .... if the players were told to keep things from the doctors of the clubs, how this DIDN"T raise alarm bells with any players, or how any of the coaching staff didn't get wind of this is astounding. Further on from this when ASADA began to investigate, the players withholding information could have been as much to do with fear (still not a valid excuse) as much as anything. Bottom line if they don't think they did anything wrong with the program and didn't think it was illegal, why wouldn't you tell ASADA in the regular tests etc in regards to supplements, it doesn't make any sense. But then again, none of this does.

Well Said Fifty-5, My take on this whole thing.. Essendon, at the end of 2011 wanted to be stronger and fitter and wanted a program that in a highly competitive competition that was cutting edge and gave them an advantage over other teams. They got it horribly wrong, and the players unwittingly or not got caught up in it. Fact of the matter is that players are responsible for what goes into their bodies and regardless of the idea of 'team mentality'/peer pressure. I feel sorry for the players (and their families) because I don't believe any of them 'intentionally' wanted to be taking enhancing drugs and to work outside of the drugs code. But not asking questions is not an excuse either. The penalty is harsh, but fair. I just wish the AFL and Essendon had approached this whole thing in a better way than the arrogance stance that saw them try to control the situation and contrive an outcome which spun out of their control, and caused this wreck. In terms of players coming back, they have their penalty, they serve it, and then they should be free to being able to play again, I would like a bit more humility or contrition as Fifty-5 has said, but that might come with time. I also think some people read too much into the drug cheat label also... If these players are serious about wanting to play and move past this, you would think that they would be prime candidates for assisting with drug and education programs in sport/schools etc.. Plenty of people have stuffed up their lives in one form or another, it's how you learn from the mistakes that defines you and makes you better. These players do deserve that opportunity equally as much as they deserve the punishment that's in front of them currently.

I still don't feel this is entirely fair on the players mentioned above. Whilst Gysberts was seen as a 'roughie' the other three were all seen as good selections at the time. In many of these cases we have to look to the development of our list rather than the recruitment of the players. These three players also suffered some very significant injuries that hindered development, and would have had a big hit on confidence as they see other players go past them. Rather than being revisionist, surely it is better to acknowledge we had significant issues in most areas of our football department, and since we've had PJ, Josh Mahoney, and the coaches in place, and we have a stable environment and system for our players to improve and grow it's had a very noticable impact.

AFL has coverage of the event starting online at 3:30pm I thought I read somewhere.... not sure when it actually starts sorry

I know who his Grandfather is, but I swear I saw somewhere that Sam was a Richmond supporter... I could also be completely off my nut as well.

Don't think personally we'll take anyone at three. Mills will get nominated, and then we will take Parish at four where he is obviously a bargain!!