Ouch!

I wouldn't have an issue with Voss or Ratten, there is something to be said for someone that has a second chance. I think that and the opportunity to work with Roos would appeal to both of these guys. I know Goodwin's pedegree, but I still have a level of unease in regards to the fact that he seemed in the thick of the whole ASADA thing when it came out, Dean Wallace, the Weapon, Goodwin seemed to be mentioned as the story unfolded, the question is whether it is by association or direct involvement.

The issue isn't about Adelaide accepting the offer as much as Dangerfield accepting the offer. If he wants to come, and Adelaide know next year the compensation is going to be a lot poorer through free agency, they will know that we have the best picks to offer this year. I like Toumpas and think he could be a player, but Toumpas and pick 3 for Dangerfield would be a win for both clubs. Neither club can feel like they are being shafted in this trade if it were to occur.

I thought that I read somewhere (a month or so back) that Kirk had ruled himself out of the role with Roos and was happy to sign on again with Fremantle. Edit: http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-07-21/ling-has-his-doubts it's about half way down this article, it's pretty vague as a reference though.

... perhaps Frawley said to Roos on his exit interview if you can get Mitch to sign, I'll sign on as well!

Also looks like Jade Rawlings behind Roos

They did this with Travis Boak too didn't they? Not a free agent, and even though my memory is a little rusty, I don't even think the season had finished...

Just an observation, before anyone saying Caro is having another rant against the EFC, Hird etc, a 'similar' article is also in the Herald Sun, and whilst it's not as direct in the details about Ryder, there are photo's of him, and comments about how this whole saga has had a toll on him. sounds like there could be something to the rumour, and I think it would only take one player for things to unravel quickly.

I'll start by saying I think Frawley will leave the club, and is likely to head to Geelong. But all the comments that he has been a dog to the club, and showing poor leadership etc, I thing goes a bit far and none of us really have any clue whether its true or not. Other than a tongue in cheek comment about if Roos signs, then he will earlier in the year, I think evidence that Frawley has done something wrong to the club and it's supporters is all based on speculation and rumours. In this climate we have with free agency it's just the way things are. Rumours have come out, about him naming a price, but that is likely to be player manager comments rather than the player himself. Compared to the circus that happened with Cloke which played its way out in the media, Frawley has not sought to play it out this way. Roos has said consistently through the year that he has no issues with Frawley's approach through the week and in games, and I'll take his word on that. I think us as supporters and the media themselves actually create a situation where if Frawley doesn't leave the club now, people will be pi$$ed at him for holding out so long, and cos our season has been poor again, rather than recognising that we have a good player (not great) with a strong mature body who could help the list develop, we yet again turn our eye to the draft drooling over the compensation that beckons. I confess that I have often thought that getting pick 3 for Frawley would be better than him staying, but the draft hasn't been kind to us in the past, and I only think that it is going to benefit us if we trade for another midfield option that can produce results like Tyson, but whether we can pull that off again is yet to be seen. It royally sucks that our club is so damn uncompetitive, and as such these situations come from it, but he is entitled to test the market. There is a difference between a supporter of a club who's loyalty is unconditional, and being a professional sportsman. Ask any delisted player and see the answer you receive

The way I see it would be that if Mitch wants to resume his career he would make a call about whether it is here or back in WA. Given he is on our list and the positions that the WA clubs finished on the ladder, it would be extremely unlikely to see him go into the draft and get picked up by them that way. So Freo (or WCE) would need to trade for him, whilst I don't think the MFC would play TOO hard in that trade, they won't just give him away. I doubt that too many supporters would wish him ill if this situation eventuates. If he is staying in Melbourne, I think most MFC supporters WOULD be filthy if he is talking to other clubs instead of resuming with the MFC.

I might be wrong, but wasn't a large part of the money that Hunt was on 'Ambassadorial' funding that came directly from the AFL and not from the club? I don't think that Hunt or Folau were being paid a huge amount by the clubs themselves.

Not quite sure if it's damning or a hint into how our players are coached to play. Paul Roos and his assistants at the time (Longmire and Ross Lyon) both use the handball backwards as the path forward by foot. All three clubs have negative metres for handballing, but 2 of those clubs are in the top 4. Yeah we are handballing a lot, but I suspect it's more 'what do we do next' thats the problem, where I think Sydney and Freo have that part worked out better than us.

Its different, but the result was that he reinjured a hamstring that he did only 2 weeks ago, I am not a physio, but I always thought that for most people 2 weeks is a bit short... let alone Grimes who has had it before.

I don't disagree with your assessment, however I will say that some footballers (such as Kent) probably actually get the game plan of someone like Roos, or the 'just play your role' because that role is clearly defined and laid out. I think it would be fair to say Kent has been one of our better performers once getting out there on the park. Don't think I would like to lose him, but again I think he does have value on the market.

I seem to recall Goddard was seen as soft as well in the first 5-6 seasons, and rubbished as a pick 1. He actually went through similar calls (probably not as vocal as what Watts has had) to be offloaded etc, It probably took him 6 or so seasons for things to change. Again, Watts might come good eventually, he might not, or he might only come good in a different team/environment. Really don't know the answer, but he ain't the only one.

Not sure if it has been mentioned here, I really liked that Mark Thompson came out and berated Joe Daniher about putting his hand up to play when he wasn't really fit to play after his collarbone injury, and called him selfish and not putting the team first. I look at Grimes on the weekend, and the situation is no different, the one person that truly knew if he was fit to play was Grimes himself. The fact that he re-injured the same hamstring in basically the same place suggests he wasn't 100% right to me, and I would argue that Grimes isn't showing leadership by coming back from a hamstring earlier than he should. That action is selfish and 2 weeks for a hamstring injury (given Grimes history with back and hamstrings) is not what I would call a good example for the club, team or younger players. I might be wrong, but it's not like we were playing for finals.

Heh... after yesterday BB, I suspect that most of us would probably have chosen that. I would have thought that list management looks at all offers that come in for their players and would need to assess them on their merits, ... and then try and offload the players that they want to move on instead of the good ones they want to keep

Thats true...., but it does seem to indicate that if Dank's involvement is the common link (which it certainly seems to be) that ASADA has a pretty good case to re-issue the show cause notices immediately even if they lose this current court case.

It would sit a lot easier with a lot of people that if Mitch and the club felt that he is is a good enough space to continue his career, that the MFC ask the commission and the other clubs for permission to allow Mitch back onto our list rather than going to the Commission for a PP. Didn't Essendon do something similar in regards to Ramanauskas? I agree though that we can't just put him on the list as you point out.

perhaps thats true. He has trade value I don't deny that. But it seems as though every time the team is dismal, Demonland rolls out another post about Watts.

This is just a very quick list, but why wouldnt Spencer, Gawn, Fitzy, Garland, Frawley, Kent, Trengove, Toumpas, Grimes and McKenzie be of some interest to other clubs as well as Watts. Thats just a quick list based on players that have been on our list for more than a season. Clubs might trade players to improve their depth, doesn't necessarily have to be a starting 18 player. Obviously Viney,Jones, Salem and Tyson have more value on the trade table, but might be seen as untouchables. I know that Watts polarises people's views, but singling him out just seems to fuel the polarisation furthe. OD, I understand the logic, I also understand that people are disappointed with him and I understand that our expectations of him as a player as a result can be that we are disappointed with him, but I still don't really see how his worth to other clubs as a trade hinges on his draft position. That was more the point I was trying to make.

How does that impact his worth to us or to other teams? Clubs have had five or six years to assess his performances... ? Do you really think that list management teams will focus on where he was drafted when assessing his worth? Again, I am not fussed as to whether our list management team goes either way, but what is there to gain by focusing on Watts over someone like Dawes who had yet another shocking game this week...

*sigh* I didn't say you SAID or WROTE anything. But I fail to see a thread with a poll for any other player that has come out since the weekends game assessing that players worth on the trade table or to our team. I agree that the club do this for every single player, but what I fail to see is anything created FOR any other player except for Watts, although to be fair I don't go into the Draft and Trading section, so perhaps the interest by Demonland members is driving this thread.

I know it's about Watts, my issue is the constant 'interest' in Watts That there is a perception amongst so many people that this one player seems to be the cause of the problems we are currently experiencing is the point I am making. Was Watts any better or worse than perhaps a dozen or so players out there on the weekend? if not ... why are we creating yet another thread about him.

This is the issue that I have with the thread. I don't have a problem with having a thread like this if you are going to create one for every single player on the list. You are saying that people here are deferring and deflecting, but you are making a thread just about Watts which again in my opinion is unfairly focussing purely on one player and making things about him and his worth purely. To be perfectly honest, whilst I said keep, I have no issue with whatever the list management team chose to do with ANY of our players, we know we have to improve the list a lot, and we are going to have to sacrifice some players/picks in order to achieve this. What I do have an issue with is the apparent infatuation with Watts and the notion that trading or keeping him will apparently single handedly make the team better / worse. IF we trade Watts at the end of the year, whoever picks him up is going to be laughing all the way to the bank, and we are going to have to put up with muppets in the media telling us that trading Watts was a stupid move and that the MFC have committed the biggest mistake since drafting him in the first place.

Peoples infatuation with Watts is scary, from both inside (us as supporters) and outside the club (Media etc...) The team as a whole was responsible for what happened out there on the weekend. Every single player including our 'untouchables' has a responsibility in part for what happened. Jones, Tyson, Viney etc. They were all out there on the day, none of the players should be spared... yet we still seem to love hanging things on Watts, cos having a target to throw mud at makes it somehow easier? Watts and the 'effort' blowtorch that is applied to him every week, to me is more often than not a symptom of how the team is playing rather than the cause. Anyway, back to the slagging off!