Demon Dynasty

Good points. Although a i had to look twice at the nic name. Almost thought you were talking about someone else in the leadership group for a moment given his recent efforts and attitude on the field Wonder what's gotten in to him of late. Was always pretty upbeat and positive or was i imagining things? So much rests on the Russian for us going forward. Can't see the MFC making that mistake regardless of what's offered.

Yep Also Belze, i can see your side somewhat. However, he can cop all you've suggested and more ....in the magoos

Fair points Akum and well constructed. Interesting read mate. I guess we need improvements in so many areas in this regard eh. Lots more work to do for the FD and the boys Lets hope they can find a way

I think this is a good description of where some of our problems lie turnover wise down back and especially in the context of countering/handling the forward press. I'm not sure he's the cause of our problems in dealing with the press/pressure down back. Maybe a part of our problems as a whole. Might also be under instruction too without quite being able to reach expectations on execution etc enough of the time (eg., effective disposal levels) and others he's trying to utilise might also be under performing their role to various degrees. Not that we have a direct say i realise. Just a thought from a rank amateur.... Wondering what you think (and others here) about him in a forward role (or part time mid on occasions) where his first option in most cases would be to instinctively look for options forward (crumbs/goals/passes). Maybe pushing up into the mid field when needed. I still think he gives us some grunt/run, something we lack a fair bit of at this point, and might be more valuable to us and himself in a different, somewhat more instinctive role, other than down back. Worth rolling the dice?

Exactly. Looked like he didn't want to be there, and that's exactly how he played. No commitment to the contest, the team and a severe lack of discipline on display. Unprofessional. Not the sort of attitude we want our young brigade to follow from here. 2 - 3 weeks Casey at the very least. Let him think about it. And set a new standard for this club. No one should be above our non-negotiables. Proves to ourselves, our boys and to some degree our opposition, that a display like this is unacceptable at our Club. Begins to "become" part of our culture going forward. Beamer was made an example of when he let the team down OFF the field a few weeks back yes? Davey let the team down ON the field....potentially even more destructive/damaging to team moral etc IMO. If Davey isn't dropped, surely this sends a conflicting message to the playing list. If i let the team down ON the field....it's ok then right!? What makes Aaron more special? B) P.S. Nicely said up there too QueenC

From Choko, on 23 May 2011 - 10:59 AM, said: Both points have some validity. Yes, we did introduce more experience from the previous week overall (obviously Evans the exception here individually). We were more experienced on average across the team by 15 games versus the team we fielded the previous week against North. Round 8 Roos v Demons (Ave games - per player by team) Roos - 67 Demons - 50 Round 9 Saints v Demons Saints - 108 Demons - 65 But yes we also had less experience as a differential versus the Saints, when compared to the differential against the Roos. 43 versus 17 to be precise. Given this differential, one could argue that we improved our result on the previous week (i can hear some of you saying "so we should!!" lol) as we halved the losing margin against a much more experienced team and with a significant increased (negative) differential in experience, on the same ground. The other stats i thought worth looking at.... Against the Roos: 13 players with less than 49 games under their belt (rookies? for want of a better term) with average games played per rookie of 26. The Roos had 10 rookies with an average of 21 games per rookie. Reasonably close stats here, albeit 3 extra rookies for the Demons this day. Against the Saints: 12 rookies, each with an average of 21 games. The Saints had 5 rookies, each with an average of 11 games. Almost double the number of games on average for our rookies but we had more than double the number of rookies than the Saints. As for experienced players (using 100+ games played for this comparison). The Saints had us on both counts. Demons: 143 games per experienced player. Saints: 163. Demons: 5 experienced players, Saints 12.

StKilda vs Melbourne Round 9, 2011 - Experience Stats Apologies for the lateness. I'll try and get these up before the Carlton match once teams are in. Cheers fellow deminions B) Average games played by Team Saints - 108.32 Demons - 65.41 Average games played by category 0-49 Saints - 10.8 / 5 (average games/number of players) Demons - 21.5 / 12 50-99 Saints - 81.0 / 5 Demons - 81.4 / 5 100+ Saints - 163.33 / 12 Demons - 142.6 / 5

Chapman Goodes Johno Brown Selwood ...oops ...thats 4 lol

Excellent point Stuie. Sadly And Nasher....i would've preferred Megan Gale in there for Jen Hawkins. A bit to "up there somewhere looking down" for my liking Jen. Any chance you can add Megan please!?

Ok. So davey's squibb wasn't a result of "passion" or lack thereof then? Or maybe (in your mind) this was a clear example of a derivative of our extensive injury list and inexperience? Nice one Artie Yep. Sporting teams at the elite level don't play with passion for their jumper or their fans. The just play. Mate, it's relevant because without our passion and following the Club wouldn't exist....period. If you don't have passion from the fans and the players don't play with any on the field, you may as well stay home bud.

Wow, so passion doesn't have a part to play in footy or comments/observations thereof huh. That's news to me. Must have been barracking/watching/turning up at game after game/yelling support/buying memberships, merchandise & demon incentive plans/handing out "no merger" leaflets at the G/Dallas Brooks etc for some other reason other than passion for the last 40 years

Petterd was dissapointing yes, however, i think he has a little more upside potential than the others at the start of your list up there. Doesn't mean i'd leave him in next week on that performance though. I think maybe another rocket needed here. Even if it means blooding a first gamer like Howe in order to replace him and send the message/and allow him further development time in the Magoos. I really don't want to see part-time forward types in our team again (like Petterd/Newton) unless/until we can see a marked step up in ability/skill and finish under fairly intense pressure. It's time to turn up the heat....no matter WHO is under-performing and not putting in the required "non negotiable" efforts. Sylvia i wouldn't put in with the other 3 either. Albeit i think he doesn't finish as well as he could option wise on many occasions. Seems a little happy to dump the ball long whenever pressed, without taking the extra effort/time to ensure it's delivered to the advantage of team mate (more often than not. no one's perfect under pressure all of the time or anytime for that matter...even champions). At other times he looks stunning with his delivery. I'd just like to see him improving his effective ball use a little more when he breaks clear. Shouldn't he now be at a level, fitness/skill/experience wise, that he's occasionally pushing up into the forward line for a contest and to present too? Kicking a few goals on occasions? Yes he's done so in the past. But where's the consistency? Seems to be happy to play his central position and sit on it without this extra "pushing up" work in some games, like today. The greats do this extra work more often than not. I'm referring to the likes of Juddy, Goodes, Chapman, Ablett, Reiwoldt etc. They're willing to work that little extra when the heat is on and game is up for grabs to try and make a difference and do the one percenters to help out the TEAM! Aka the Jones Boy today. And no i'm not putting Jones in the champion league by any means, but i think he lead the way today, showing that he's not gonna lay down without a huge effort/fight. Pushing himself to provide the extra link, run and get to the contest all day. This is somewhere towards the minimum effort we should demand from all players at this club effort/skill wise. In some ways, having the list so depleted is going help us sort out the more senior players, with regard to who really wants to stick their hand up and lay it on the line for this club and who doesn't. And also those that are able to play at a minimum required level skill/execution wise under Bailey's/ the FD's game plan/s By the time some of our big guns/regulars are back in and settled we will have a much better idea of who was and wasn't up to it in this group. I think we discovered at least one today who wasn't in terms of willingness/attitude (Davey). And at least one other in the skill/ability/physicality dept under pressure/heat (Newton/Petterd?). Albeit, i don't see too many gun forwards waiting in the wings as replacements at Casey right now for both. Maybe it's time to roll the Howe dice (for Newton). Lets hope the Coach/FD has the sense (and balls) to make some pretty tough but clever decisions with the list in the latter part of this season in the cold light of day.

Yep Feels quite good until you look at who we played form wise. And one can only go on current form (and enough games now to have a fair idea of where that form truly lies). Below us on the ladder with only 1 win and a draw and that win against a lowly (bottom of the ladder) Brisbane. I think we're getting ahead of ourselves a little here. On the surface some of the performances/efforts today may have looked promising. Personally I'd be waiting till after round 12. Then let's see how we think the senior list is going development/improvement wise....as well as the man appointed to coach them. Yes, there's now an excuse with the senior list half shot to pieces. So some will say we should wait the whole year out before judging. I would say the best time to judge the metal and true grit of a team and its leaders, is when the chips are down and the going gets really tough...against some of the better teams (form wise) in the competition.

Like many promising players that didn't end up reaching their full potential at the MFC (or moved on to achieve great heights elsewhere), i think we need to ask him if he's happy just being very good and exciting in spurts, or whether he would prefer to be remembered as one of the greats of the game....period. If it's the latter, then much more work is required input wise from the FD/Air Jurrah (AJ) in order for us (AJ) to see the best of him in the future... output wise. At this stage he's simply not willing/capable of putting in the consistent efforts to make a huge impact across four quarters and hence on the eventual outcome of most games. When he goes, sure, he looks super and exciting and sometimes he is. But it's still only in flashy spurts. And as for comparisons with Robbo. The game may have changed somewhat forward pressure wise from even 3 - 4 years ago when he was at his peek. So yes, he may not look so good in today's game and his defensive side wasn't something from a coach's text book. But then neither is AJ's at present, albeit with some chasing exceptions when the mood takes him. However, like it or not, Robbo on his day was able to turn/ice a game for us on many occasions. And on the big stage/big game such as those against the filth with a huge crowd when the heat was truly on etc. Some who say otherwise must have very short or selective memories. Some also forget the other effects Robbo's efforts would have on the game. Things like him crashing packs (oh he missed the mark....golly gosh...he's so selfish going for that, why doesn't he just chase more!) and causing spillages out back/front for the crumbed goal, knocking the stuffings out of defensive opponents in those same contests allowing for slightly easier contests/match ups in the next forward thrust etc. I presently haven't seen that consistently from AJ .....i live in hope though. If i had to choose, i'd take Robbo (at this point) in a heartbeat when he was on. He had passion, desire and he delivered most of the time when asked. Hopefully the FD and AJ can prove me wrong some time. I love the tricks, skill and execution when he does switch it on though. SPECIAL!!! Good luck to him from here. Lets hope he can take the next step.

I believe Davey may have been asked to tag Jones for a while in the 2nd half due to his lack of impact (ie., none) in the first half. However, even though i thought Jones relatively ineffective disposal wise, Jones was still willing to work his arse off for the team and gut run Davey (or whoever else was on him) off the park. In the end, Davey couldn't be bothered doing the same (or was incapable of doing so) for more than a few minutes, or had some kind of niggle. I believe some refer to it as sulking?

Totally agree. Often unmanned once the opposition loses possession. Such a poor disposal when under little pressure and a panic player when under medium pressure, the opposition are often happy to just let him run around racking up stats (when he's down back) as they know in most cases he'll just turn it over and they can play off him and spread for the receive and/or kick on goal. Best to try close to goal for 3 - 4 weeks, where he MUST look to moving the ball forward ie., hand balling/short passing to a forward in a better position/lead or shooting for goal. Instead of automatically, without even looking up the field in most passages of play, passing/hand balling the ball backwards to an easy option in last line of defence or sideways to try the switch (usually poorly and too late putting his team mate under pressure) or when under pressure, panic hand balling (eg., to Chip today in one passage that ended up in another costly turnover/goal). If he can't cope up forward as a crumber/goal kicker/applying forward pressure/turnovers etc , then best to trade while he still has some value out there IMO. There is one other alternative where i'd like to see him given a further opportunity, but only up forward or maybe pushing into the middle on occasions, and that's under a new (top rated) coach. He just might be under instruction (with this auto backwards first option mode of play) when in defence. If so, what does this say about Bailey's coaching style/ability? Sorry, did Bails say something about, "we gotta take the game on" a few days ago? And yes....he does try....real hard. Happy to give credit there. Davey could learn from that at least. Sadly i don't think he will.

McDonald: Tried hard and and did a few good things first half. Went missing after that and decision making/awareness at this level poor. As much as i liked his effort first half, if that's the best he can do.... Trade time. Bater: Enough said. Probably trade time. Davey: Casey. Then bring him out towards last 3 - 4 rounds to put a show on as trade bait. Need a solid forward....desssssparately!! Newton: Too slight to hold down a key forward position and if the balls being bombed he's not even capable of creating a contest. Same in the ruck....he's a liability there. As to why Bailey moves him there (especially straight after kicking a much needed goal at one point, i'll never know). Is only good on the lead but then so is Jurrah. Trade or delist time (permanently!). Jurrah: Leading is about all he's doing at the moment, on occasions (and yes doing it well ...when he wants to...along with tackling/chasing...when he feels like it). Time for some extra fitness work i think if he's not up to playing out the 4 quarters with some gusto. Not sure whether Casey would help. Needs a Mentor maybe (Not Davey!) Petterd: Pretty average at best. For that output he would need to have an accuracy rate of 90% - 100% in front of goal. Aint gonna happen obviously. Martin: Again, tries hard in ruck and probably holds his own for the first half of football. Downhill after that. Easily jostled out of the contests one on one and has no idea in aerial contests or once the ball hits the ground. Panicks in general play if he gets possession too when the heat is on (not alone here though). Not sure whether any alternatives are ready for a shot from Casey....but not much to lose here. Maybe use as a sub for 2nd half of games until the big russian returns. Or alternatively leave him up forward to see if he's capable as a big marking forward option given that our options up there atm are Zilch. Bartram: Gets plenty of it but i understand why opposition doesn't bother with him in terms of manning up on him when they dont have the ball. His decision making and finish is some of the worst i've seen at AFL level. Passable at VFL level. Always looking for the cheap kick backwards to an easy unmarked opponent as first option (in most cases). Direct cause of so much pain the other way (turnover wise and placing needless pressure on our other backman through poor choices/delivery/panick hand balls etc). Looks ok when all is well and under NO pressure at all. Either play him as a mosquito forward to crumb and kick goals.....or trade time. Apart from a few select efforts, and a poor showing from a shadow of a team in the Saints (reiwoldt excluded), we would have been smashed by any team 8 and above after half time today IMO. Although ravaged with injury, i really haven't seen anything (on a consistent basis over 3 years and 8 matches now) that shows me that Bailey has the ability/processes/systems in place to motivate the boys and find the spirit/tenacity we would need (among so many other things....eg., holding the ball in our forward line by creating forward pressure inside our 50 for more than just an odd game here or there) if we are to move these players, and they're to move themselves (and a whole bunch of regulars once they return), to the next level. And to the next level i mean a step up to finals standard football. And that's just lower part of the 8 finals standard, let alone finishing in the top 4. Jones was outstanding and i'd hate to think where we may have finished were he injured (Lucifer forbid!). Moloney wasn't at his best but gave his all for 4 quarters as did Chip. Sylvia and Warnock were up and about for most of the game but imo opinion slightly below par performance wise given their experience/what's expected. Maric was super in the first half. Chip was solid given the amount of pressure placed on him time & time again. Green tried hard but for some reason Bailey is unwilling to have faith and leave him in the goal square for more than 5 - 10 minutes at a time. Has lost his range (just) outside 50 now. Great efforts but not as damaging or effective up the ground when moved there. First half admirable efforts from Watts, Jetta, Gysberts, Rivers, Macdonald and Evans (good effort son for first game!). Next 3 weeks looking even uglier than the first 8 (Adelaide the one exception....still!). P.S. Was that Jones (subconsciously maybe) sticking his hand up today saying "If the Captaincy's up for grabs...i'll take it!!"... ??

Very poor to say the least. Schoolboy stuff from a senior. When we needed him to stand up for the club as as a senior leader, he decided it was a little too much and took 3 backward steps + a squibb that effectively cost us 12 points! Even a first gamer would have shown more spirit and effort than Davey did today. And he did....Evans. Casey from next week and trade bait at end of year please for a forward who knows how to take a big grab and kick goals under a little or a lot of pressure. Our forward line stinks and we could have won (emphasis on could) had we had a decent mark/goal kicker down there who can read the play/ball and lead when required as well. Not one amongst the lot today. Don't wont or need this type of player at the Club. Enough of the soft touch "outside" players running around on our list already. This crap on indigenous day too. Where's the pride?? Thanks Aaron but no thanks

Goes without saying that Flash needs a HUGE game here. Needs to break lines (take em on!), kick some goals (if he's thereabouts) and put pressure on his opponent & others when he doesn't have ball and create the turnover. Ie., chase them down and tackle as he once did! Four quarters please!

Lol O.D. Alka Saltzer might be needed after this game. But after my forecast last week and the result, i'm putting my forecast hat (for this Club atm) in the too hard bin lol. Happy to just watch and hangin out for Howe's arrival!

Like i needed reminding!

ummm....not yet

Spot on Daisy. I recall Jimmy doing this on a number of occasions. Scored a number of goals doing so too. Almost a ruck rover type in terms of his following role. He played alongside Strawbs O'dwyer for a time and would sometimes scout the pack for the crumb when he wasn't in the main rucking dual and off he'd go. I'm probably spouting stuff that most peeps know already i realise. I always believed he had the mind of a classic ruck rover/utility type from that era in the body of a ruckman lol. I recall heading into the rooms after a match at Waverley park where we'd smashed the Hawks (one of the rare occasions out there ...i think we smashed em. We won anyway lol) on a pretty wet day (what day wasn't pretty wet and windy out there!?). I spotted him amongst the boys having their drinks etc and yelled out at the top of my lungs "Hey Jimmy! Great roving mate!". Suffice to say he looked around a little non-plussed wondering what the hec i was on about lol. Believe me when i say i was on plenty ....again ...HIC! For me Simon Madden and maybe Paul Salmon for their ability to turn a match on it's head. Lenny Thompson was also pretty steadfast and had to be up there winning a brownlow. And John Nichols for his man mountain marking, opponents inability to move him in a ruck contest and (what i thought at the time as i was a little tacker) were amazingly long torpedoes lol! And maybe they were! So many others from past years (Polly Farmer etc). How could you possibly say how he ranks versus all of them. I just recall Madden turned so many games for the Bombers (from memory), especially out at Windy Hill. Seem to recall us almost putting them to the sword on a few occasions out there, only to have him star in the final quarters (among others who starred for the Bombers) and they'd turn the game. Me and bro walking home with long faces on most occasions. I only recall one win out there (and even that's vague now...actually it was probably all a little vague after half time lol) in all my years trudging out there. Stynes was a stalwart rock of a player though and IMO different to the more traditional style of ruckman produced up till then. As someone said in a post, can't grab ball out of ruck today which would hinder his style somewhat. I'm sure he'd adapt though. Not sure where i'd rate Cox and Sandilands in comparison. Personally i think people forget how relatively good (or maybe not so depending on where you sit) these historic players are unless one sees some extensive old video to jog the memory before trying to compare to latter day players. I'm sure there's many many great/quality ruckman i've missed and didn't have the fortune of seeing that others will remember. As you said, his stats sure hold up against these two though (in most areas).

I'd just like to see his defensive side back or close to where it once was. Offensively i think he's almost there, with the exception that he short passes way too often IMO. Like him to look up the ground a little more and spot out the longer option for passing too (if the option is on that is). Otherwise i'm happy with short side if he has to (attempted 10 metre pass to Moloney in heavy traffic last week an exception....grrr lol). But defensively, as an example, I recall going back a year or so he was one of only a few players at the club with the speed,desire,effort required to chase down opponents from behind and cause valuable turnovers. Maybe i've missed it, but he doesn't seem to do this much of late.