Demon Dynasty

Lol. You must've been watching through rose coloured 'Warnock' glasses WA. He was embarrassing last week and also against North and that's just 2 recent ones that come to memory. There's been plenty of others over the last few years. He has size and can take an uncontested mark, but that's about it. Terrible reader of the ball coming in high, poor body work often interfering with other fellow players in better position in the marking/spoiling contest and often spoiling their efforts when out of position, drops simple chest marks under no pressure resulting in turnover goals. And once the ball hits the ground it's 'chook without a head' time. Why would we want to continue giving senior game time to a player with these traits? This is the type of player that the MFC continues to have faith in year after year, whilst seemingly being unwilling to make the tough call and try potentially better alternatives, leaving other prospects to rot in the Magoos (unless we have a deft of injuries like we do now and we're forced to select alternatives outside of the regular favorites). While the somewhat more experienced but in the main, under-performing player, continues to rack up game after game, without actually being deserving, earning it or improving on past performance. Just maintaining his 'status quo'. No better, no worse, so lets just keep playing him and eventually, with enough experience, he should somehow improve and provide value!?? Not saying Warnock can't improve. I hope he can for his and our sake. But let him do a little time in the Magoos and work on it, before taking another look sometime down the track when he appears as if he's improved on aspects of his game. Same applies to anyone else IMO. If a player is showing something, gradually improving week to week or month to month (whatever the timeline is for assessment) and deserving of his place then fine. Let them continue and develop their game & gather experience. IMHO this 'easy going/she'll be right' attitude is one of the key reasons as to why the MFC often under performs, never quite taking the next step in our overall improvement/development into an "A" level AFL team. Always end up being 'B' grade team wise (at best) or when we bottom out we really bottom out....going from 'B' at best down to a 'C' or even worse. Then we tank and try to find alternative prospects with some early draft picks. Then the same approach/attitude/cycle continues. And then we supporters are left year after year saying...."why can't we find/develop enough players into an elite team...why are we always languishing as a mid rung team or worse year after year, decade after decade?" Warnock has 7 extra kilos and in his favour at this stage and 54 games advantage. Both the same height so no disadvantage there. Need to test other options at this point. Even if McDonald has 3 - 5 clangers, that's about par for Warnock as well. However, we at least get to see where McDonald is at and what he may have to offer as a a medium to long term prospect at this level. And yes, i realise it will take a lot more than 1 game to assess that.

Not the dreaded Smithy sacking curse you mean lol! I sometimes wonder how/why our injury probs arise year after year, yet some other clubs run the whole season almost injury free, sometimes helping them win the big one eg., The Filth last year. Hawks in 2008 etc. Bro is longer in the tooth than i Demon wise and he swears there's something there "curse" wise too. Is there someone around who can come down and conduct an anti-curse ceremony lol?

I think you may have got Rhino'd up there Ralphius! But you never know. You might be on to something. Maybe this is our Annus Horribilus. Lucifer has strange ways of doing things. He just might be saying to us... "time to Delve real DEEEP fellas!" In the process we just might uncover the 1 or 2 future superstars from the Magoos who will lead us to premiership glory!! B) Awaiting the launch of 'The Hurricane'

VERY! BIRTH OF THE HURRICANE IMMINENT!

No reason why we can't harden up and defend ourselves publicly at the same time. Agreed though. Gotta walk the walk and back it up when it counts with hard nosed never say die efforts on Friday night and from here on! Win, lose or draw.

I wouldn't lump Yeater in there Grape. I was directly behind our goals (smack bang in the middle) in the last quarter when he took that shot on the run. I swear that ball was shooting straight towards me when he first launched it and up to about half way towards goal. I was even thinking at the time that i could have a go at marking it or that i might have to protect the war office! Suffice to say in that split second i'd already marked it down as a goal (and almost the sealer!). It swung away in the last 15 meters, almost as if an invisible hand was pushing it to the left of the goal posts and didn't want for it to go through (left from my perspective). I can still remember looking at my other half at the time in bewilderment thinking "WTF!??". There's a whole lot of things that lead to these close finishes. Another for example.... there was a very obvious throw about 20 meters in front of the Hawks goals in the first quarter and they scored a goal. I'm not mentioning the player here out of respect. On the day, yeah there was Eishold, Campbell, Stynes and the throw etc. But the kick on goal by Yeater was the moment for me that always sticks and i always think "what if?"...and "why/how didn't that shot go through?" If you trailed through the replay i'm sure you'd find plenty of others. But those boys did us proud during that finals series, including Yeater, and shouldn't be remembered for the "odd" things that didn't work out in our favour in the heat of battle. I prefer to see them all as Swooper's heroes and heroes of our club, given what we were up against, where we'd come from and the great efforts they'd made to get us (and Robbie!) within one kick of a GF...after the siren. They truly played for each other and gave their all for the Red & the Blue! B) Mighty Demons Forever

Bailey has come out on Fox Footy (press conference just now) and defended the sledge on our players by Carlton and has also refuted the cheat comment from Malthouse. He rejected Ratten's comments earlier this morning that the comments were more to do with how Carlton were approaching the game after half time. Good stuff Deano! Finally we're speaking up and making a stand.....let's hope we can follow this up on the field going forward!

Agreed I have a feeling BOTH of them maybe losing the message, whatever it is, on the rest of the playing group. If you haven't already, i suggest watching Chip's after match post-mortem (under "Demon TV" on our site) and decide for yourself. He may or may not be a good barometer but his body language/comments, particularly at the 1.00 minute mark, are pretty telling IMO. I know things are always at there most grim straight after a loss. But i have to say i'm now very concerned about the effects this season is having right now on many within the playing group and how it may pan out at the end of the season trade wise. Hopefully my worst fears won't be realised... eg., Scully, Chiper & others exiting stage left!

Great thread Tony For example, after the 23-25 minute mark of first quarter in the game against North this is exactly one of the key areas we fell down in. Yep there were many issues other than this in the last few minutes of that 1st quarter and after quarter time, including poor strategies/moves by Bailey in the last 5 minutes of the 1st, but to me this is a stand out and not just this game. Our inability across the ground to lay tackles and make them stick, in particular within our forward 50, continues to cost us dearly. Along with general accountability/grunt/size and HEIGHT! Even with our entire list on the park, i still see this as an issue, in particular with our forward 50 stocks. Can't see it changing for the remainder of this year or even 2012, subject to some amazing trade pick ups/deals.

This has to be one of THE funniest posts i've read on here. unfortunately at the expense of our Club.....again. Sadly we've not only become a laughing stock with many opposition supporters, but amongst our own now. Not a new thing though. I recall plenty of laughs in our regular supporter group (including Bro) in the 70's/80,s and in particular 1996/97. If anyone recalls some of the performances in 96/97 believe me when i say, they made some of the recent losses look impressive! Have to laugh though or we'll all go insane eh. Belze some of your work up there, Especially the pics of the headless chook & finger in dyke...absolute GOLD mate! All we need now is for Mark "Jacko" Jackson and Crackers Keenan to make a comeback! B)

I like this as one possible counter method as well. However, one possible problem i see arising is the 5 meter rule where you can't block/shepherd outside of this zone or it could be considered as "charging". Team mates would have to be so precise in their judgment with it, in the end i think the umps would have a field day. Worth looking into though. One method i believe i've seen the Cats using for some time, but i think it's even more fine tuned now under Scott! (i'm sure the better teams are using it and have in the past for quite a while)... On taking possession, they wait until the very last second before passing (mostly by hand) to their next option. For want of a better word i'll refer to it as "The Release". Being the Cats, that next option isn't always free of an opponent and in more advantageous (get out) space either. They have faith for obvious reasons. But by waiting till that last split second and keeping their arms free of the tackler, they create the time/space needed (sometimes) for the next player, hopefully freeing them up a little more from their direct opponent/s, allowing them to transition out of defense more effectively, allowing the receiver to then pass by foot for speed/distance/or even scoring if within range. I realise the Cats aren't alone here and this "release" method isn't new by any means, but the point i'm making is that i feel they've taken it to another level in terms of how well they're timing is (albeit we're talking marginal percentages but ...every percent helps i would think). Add to this their willingness/ability to take the tackle if they believe it's a better option, rather than just passing off (or coughing it up as the expression goes) to a 50/50 or potentially to the advantage of an opponent. This is where i see a big hole across many of our playing group atm (not all but many). Just not willing or able to take enough tackles and wear them in tight contested play forcing the next stoppage, provided they haven't had serious prior opportunity of course. There are times when our preferred method/system to beat the press is going to fall down given the myriad of circumstances that arise during a game. Having this "release" method in close contested footy is a necessity and a critical fall back IMO. Including the ability/willingness to "take the tackle" and force that next stoppage when the situation requires (or you're just beaten/overwhelmed in the contest)! Mature bods, experience, raw talent and execution skills play a big factor obviously. We could do worse than learn from our feline foes! Certainly are purrrring right now!!

Anyone who comes up with a kick azz solution, whatever you do....don't post it on here!!

How about.... We add some big marking forwards into the mix? Like real ones i mean that can hold down key positions week after week and perform (ie., not Juice/Petterd lol), take big pack marks (any contested marks will do at this point!) AND kick more goals more often compared to the last 3 years and 9 rounds! The ball goes straight back to The Big Russian & Beamer partnership straight after this...avoiding the press! ~ Presto! Press problem eliminated + more goals = potentially more wins = developing a winning culture = more memberships/bigger crowds/more sponsors/higher sponsor $/more broadcast time/ = more $ for the FD/facilities/Coaching/Training staff & trade options and maybe, just maybe....a crack at the big one in 3 - 5 years! If only we had those forwards .....and if only it were that simple. Time to think "trade" peeps!!!

Ok. Well unfortunately at this point i aint got the time to compile every team average. Best i can do is supply you the spreadsheet i use for comparing who we're up against week to week (2 team stats much quicker obviously). I have data for 4 teams included so far. But it'll need updating if you want it to be accurate and to include all other teams obviously. Of course as each week passes and with ins/outs the data becomes dated. Now my problem is i have no idea how to get this to you on here. So if you could supply an email address then i'll forward to you mate? (Unless one of the mods or someone can explain how i can pin it onto a thread here pls?) Here's the link to the site i use for updating the data which may help assist once you get my spreadsheet...... http://www.footywire...elbourne-demons Cheers B)

Great work furious, thank you No better time than now re Gawn, the Hurricane Howe, Blease and Tom McDonald. Nothing to lose. Personally i think Petterd out (for Hurricane) instead of Newton. Newton doesn't offer much more but at least he presents on the lead (at times), can hit/split a pack (on rare occasions) and he does chase and tackle (at times lol). At least Juice gives some value rather than none (Petterd). Maybe the Hurricane as Sub for Newton seeing as it appears Newton hasn't the tank for a full game. Half a game each maybe. And no, for those Juice haters i don't see him as a long term viable option either. Just a stop gap. Very little else on offer forward wise atm sadly. Go the Hurricane! Bate, Warnock and Nicholson the other outs. Alternatively if the FD deems Nicholson deserves another go at it and some consistency then leave in for the next few weeks until we've seen a little more and he has a chance to get a feel for the speed/pace/intensity of AFL standard. Good time to take a good look at some of our 2nd/3rd stringers and rookies while the chips are down and see what they can offer us for our future. I note that the Swans have had 5 first gamers this year and have won all 5 games upon their inclusion. Stocks aren't as low as ours across the lines but just thought it worth noting. There is some hope once we start to get our regular more experienced seniors back. Unfortunately that's 3 - 4 weeks away before we'll see much of an impact. Even then i think we're so far off AFL level (intensity/skill/game plan wise) i fear it will take a miracle to salvage much from this year (other than testing/trying out our rookies etc) from here.

Jimmy & Robbo

You after every AFL team's stats Striker or just the Demons? Or teams playing tonight? Can supply Demons & Blues spreadsheet showing this for tonight if you need. Alternatively i posted a summary of some of it on The People Speak - Game Preview Post by Demonland yesterday (Demons Blues) if that helps. Happy to supply spreadsheet if you want but not sure if that's what you're lookin for....cheers

Thanks for the inside tip RR. Wouldn't have known this otherwise I'm just saying there's nothing public from the club goal wise re what their expectations are for the FD/Bailey in terms of goals they're expecting to achieve this year. Yes i'm sure there's more to it than ladder position. And sure, none of this aspect as to where the Blues are at publicly and goal wise is rocket science. Never claimed it was. Nor an illusion lol. Heyy Rocky, watch me pull this rabbit outta the hat! ~ Visions of Jeannie popping out of the bottle.....Swiiiiisshhh! Ahhh.....dreamy. Oops, i digress a little. Your fault RR. And yes i'm sure the club has set the FD/Bailey certain goals for this year that they would probably prefer not to disclose publicly. Just that the Blues have been very definite on this in a public sense and it appears (at this point) to be on track. Should you have something from a past news conference or an official statement from the Club or Stynes that you'd like to share with me i'd be more than pleased for you to post it (or the link here) and educate me. I don't propose to know the inner workings of the club and some of what i say is a little off the cuff and flippant at times. I guess what i'm alluding to is Carlton appear to be a little more "on track" and "driven" at this point of time in comparison. Regardless i don't think it's the major "Key" that will impact on how the teams might perform tonight. Just saw it as one part of many. I'm certainly not saying (nor did i say) where i thought we were at as a club overall in comparison "development" wise in both these club's cycles. So i'm not sure where you're coming from with that point. A good point nonetheless. Over to you RR.... B)

Cheers O.D. Hopefully a little more upbeat in coming weeks with some regulars due back. Fingers crossed

I like your optimism but.... The way i see it, we would need at least 5 of our 12 rookies putting in a blinder and beating their opponents hands down to offset the extra experience of the Blues at their top end, plus the rest of our boys having a 50/50 result (at least) with their opponents for us to pull this one out.... Nothing's impossible. Hec we won a night flag against the Bombers in 87 with half regulars and half 2nd stringers. But this aint for a flag and i don't think any of the current players were playing back then. Oh, and Swooper was the coach and well, anything was possible! Not wishing to dampen your enthusiasm but I had one of those 'good feelings' against the Roos a few weeks back..... Maybe Juice will pull one out of the fire and bag 8 (was gonna say 10 but lets be conservative eh) with Nicholson kicking a goal after the siren for the win!!

Beamer's Bumps & bruises with Evans (post his debut last week) for those who might not have seen it yet...... http://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/tabid/8667/contentid/357373/default.aspx

Melbourne vs Carlton Round 10, 2011 - Experience Stats Average games played by Team Demons - 59 Blues - 91 Average games played by category 0-49 Demons - 23 / 12 (average games / number of players) Blues - 24 / 7 50-99 Demons - 72 / 5 Blues - 71 / 4 100+ Demons - 134 / 5 Blues - 140 / 11 If you would like me to include something else for comparison purposes pls let me know and I'll try (time and ease of access/inclusion allowing) Cheers B)

*Insert following words pls > start to and AAMI park Could someone please wake me once this begins to happen...thanks

HOWE fellow deminions I'm trying to look for the positives however..... 1. Carlton are on track and are clearly on a mission with a clearly defined gaol (ie., to make the finals and win at least one final this year). We have no team goal in terms of where we'd like to finish that i am aware of, at least none that's been made public anyway. This suggests to me that it's ok (for this year at least) if we finish anywhere other than wooden spooners (again) i guess. Hence, no real or perceived pressure (internally) to perform consistently week to week other than self motivation. Which is no excuse i realise, and if the players were made of the right stuff this shouldn't matter etc etc...yeh....i hear ya! Keep your knickers/jocks on peeps! 2. Blues lost by 1 kick to one of THE premium teams last week in the Cats. It was said by a few within that team that Carlton produced the most intense "at the ball" contest they had been up against so far this year. This will be hard to counter IF Carlton brings it. I can't see them not bringing it. 3. We've been rocked by ommissions and injuries. And no i'm not counting Davey here as an additional injury. Should've been dropped regardless, but we'll never know now whether Bailey & FD would've had enough gonads to do so unfortunately. As much as i hope the young boys can pull something out of the fire, i think having 12-13 effective rookies in the team (maybe more after the teams are announced) and approx only 4 experienced players (100+ games), will result in a severe under weighting of experience when the going gets tough and strong leadership/bodies/contests etc are required. 4. Our form is patchy and inconsistent (at best) both from week to week, and from one quarter to the next. 5. If we haven't managed to (rusty!) nail the forward press by now, or counter the opposition's forward press (on a consistent basis) i fail to see how 1 week's extra training will make enough of a difference against the Blues. Might be able to improve on it somewhat in such a short time against lesser lights such as GWS or Port....maybe. 6. Bailey has still only beaten 2 Vic clubs on 3 occasions since his appointment and that was during a period when both of those clubs were at a very low ebb. Carlton is not on a low ebb. 7. At this point we struggle up forward and deeeesperately lack a power FF and/or CHF. In addition we have no "in-form" goal kicker/s that i can see kicking a match winning score to beat the blues, either individually or collectively. Good luck to all the boys and especially Nicholson on his debut We sure as hell are gonna need every ounce we can get. Blues by 8 to 10 goals HANGIN OUT FOR THE ARRIVAL OF THE HURRICANE!! (HOWE) B) Mighty Demons Forever!

Personally I don't feel a first offence drinky poos a few hours after curfew warrants demotion to the Magoos Belze. In response to this i also refer to my thread yesterday at 7.40pm on page 1 of this post. I don't believe any situation where Davey is on the field this week sends the correct signal, either within or outside of the club respect and example wise. Unfortunately i fear the FD of the MFC aint got the balls to do it though and he'll be in this week as if nothing happened. Hearing Rivers speak earlier this week, he seemed to confirm that's what will be happening sadly. Is this the sort of culture that will win us a big one? I mean seriously, we just gotta toughen up guys or we're toast for however long this club can survive in this league whilst never winning the big one. Maybe that's what we're satisfied/happy with at the MFC period....just surviving. If i was playing down there (eg., Scully et al), and yeah i'm not i realise, but just putting myself in their shoes for a minute,personally if they didn't drop him (or any other player) after that joke of a game he put in last week, i'd be looking elsewhere once my contract expired. Unless i got wind that the coach that decided to keep him in the team the following week was going to be replaced shortly (ie. end of season) by an A grade coach who i believed would no longer take this crap and would attempt to turn that type of WAP culture around. Not the kind of behavior i'd want to see being rewarded with another game in the seniors, regardless of what role they assign him (using it as some form of punishment). What if they do assign that kind of role to him and it doesn't come off? And i mean big time doesn't come off, like Juddy plays a blinder (not uncommon i know lol), and effectively is the difference between the two teams? One of 2 things could happen. > Scribes and critics might say..."what a shocking decision it was by the Coach/FD in playing him in such a role"; and/or > They'll question the decision to actually play him and the balls or lack thereof of the Coach/FD in making the decision (to include him) rather than sending the right signal to the rest of the playing group with a visit to the magoos. Either way we'll look crap. Yep, you could argue that it might work as well and Juddy gets nullified (at best). In that case not much will be said from off field commentators i wouldn't think. However, i'd be very surprised if our playing group felt OK and good about it and it wouldn't stick in the back of their minds. And if they didn't/don't after this week (assuming he's in), i think there's seriously something wrong down there culture wise. These have to be part of our non negotiables if we're going to turn ourselves around (on the field) into a respected and serious contender in years to come and for many years thereafter. We need to if we're to create a successful era and legacy on and off the field, maybe even a new powerhouse to rival the other top Vic clubs in 5 - 10 years time. One of your fav ex coaches, Dean Laidley, is quoted as saying you only have once chance to get the culture right at a club. If you don't, it takes many years of trying in order to fix it. I wonder if Bailey's taken his shot at it already...