Demon Dynasty

Yep No argument here mate. Hence the rolling eyes next to Green's name in brackets. It was meant to be cynical even if i didn't convey it properly. I honesty couldn't see him doing anything like this either. I was saying this more in a wishful way. Most other clubs wouldn't put up with this crap on the field and leaders would stick there hand up at half time and do what they're supposed to do during the second half to at least stick their fingers in a few holes in the dyke! No rude comments please peeps!!! There's always clubs at the bottom who may be void of key leaders as they're rebuilding. But i just figured we were better than a 'complete capitulation' for 4 whole quarters at this point in our development, regardless of the zany off field dramas. I was more thinkiing of Beamer re standing up. But as he was apparently out for the count with the flu and with 0 possessions to half time then taken off never to be seen for the remainder of the game, this left a gaping black hole of leadership on the field. I just hope that it truly was the flu that kept him to zero possessions and not some other crazy plan or shinanigans amongst the leadership group, including himself. I guess we'll never know. It was left to a maturing young man in Watts along with a few supposed has beens like Bate and Dunny to fly the flag a little, albeit only for a few minutes from what i've gathered. I don't have Foxtel and was working on the day, so i've only seen about 2 minutes of lowlights so far. But i heard every excruciating moment unfold on SEN's call. Although i did see the end of Bailey's run the week before against the Hawks (the straw that broke the camel's back for me), i still never expected such a black day and what i was hearing as it unfolded. What a sad day for our club. The blackest that i've experienced in my 40 years of following them.

Agree. Extremely well spoken and said. I just wish one of our leaders (Green ) had of said something similar at half time. Like ... "Boys, if you don't step up to the plate and give me and this club everything you got ..... then it's me and all of you tomorrow in the ring! I'll be challenging and taking on on anyone who i see shirking a contest or not giving there all out there for this second half!". I realise this sort of stuff is pre-historic and frowned upon in today's game, but we sure needed someone to do something drastic that's for sure. Having said that, i think Gary involving himself finally is at least something positive in the short term. But that's all it is apparently as he's only saying he'll commit up to the start of next season, no further. My worry would be who fills his shoes/role, whatever that might be, afterwards. Personally i think Gary needs to commit for a longer term if we're to sort out the 'culture' problem within this club and set it on the right track for decades to come. It's that big a task. A 6 month stint (or thereabouts) just wont cut it IMO.

It wasn't just Jones watching on. At least 'Schoolboy' Nicholson went in to protest his disapproval. But agreed, when the going gets really tough and it's a do or die contest or clash, Jones does tend to shy away at times. Hopefully he can weed this out of his game from here and bring a tough defensive side to his game.

Yeh.....well i did put Roos and Eade in there as well so i'd appreciate it if you at least quoted the whole sentence for context. Not that they would want to either i realise. But agreed. I was forgetting the nature of Mick. He wouldn't, and yes he would want to go down as a maybe the greatest so far if he did so, regardless of which team he decided to go to. Maybe Todd as an assistant then if he came our way. Doubt this would be till 2013 though, unless they can find a way around the contract conundrum. Grant Thomas believes we should be going after Denis Pagan but we wont as he's too tough and uncompromising for the executive at MFC to deal with. Reckons we'll end up putting an untried coach in so he's easier to manage and we're able to use the "still learning/growing/developing" excuse over the next 5 years etc. Believes appointing Eade would be a huge mistake for us as he'll bring more of the technocrat style that isn't quite able to get the team over the final hurdles to reach the big one. Interesting viewing on Footy classifieds tonight. Lots of 'coming out' home truths.

Nice post Crawf. Can't send em all to the door but in general i agree. No more pretenders please! We need full 100% commitment from anyone who wishes to play for the Red & Blue from here. Time to bleed for the club fellas. No more skinny/smallish recruits either please, unless they're an absolute stand out in terms or skills/talent, love to crack in regardless and likely to fill out into man bods after say 3 - 4 full pre- seasons eg., Betts/Rioli/Thomas types. I would love to see Wanna on that example list, if only he'd commit and go for it. Seems like many of our smaller boys end up as floaters and skiers far too often.

+ 1.... if we can't hook a big time alternative senior coach Mentor set up with Todd sounds enticing. Maybe the mentor is Malthouse, Eade or Roos. Roos did say he didn't want to coach. Said nothing about mentoring though did he? Thompson also said he never wanted to coach again

lmao WYL Heyy, you might have something here. We can use the profits (like there would be any!) for the FD spend. As an aside, i'm particularly worried about CS. I think he may have stuck his nose in to too many corners player review/FD wise instead of sticking to his CEO defined role. Hopefully he's been put on notice if so. I'm not yet convinced he's such a savior down there. He could well be part of some of the problems that are being speculated on around here and the media. There may well be some truth to this 'Micro Manage' theory that's been doing the rounds on here for quite a while.

+ 1 here There may be some truth somewhere in amongst these theories and speculation, but until someone provides a real source that's close to the action..... Although..... i have one theory of my own lol. And no, it has absolutely no foundation in truth or basis of fact lol. Just a theory. Here it is.... Lets say during the week before the game against the Cats (or even earlier, say the week leading up to the Dorks match), Scully's management have approached the club, and maybe that approach and discussion involves CS directly or he's somehow gotten heavily involved in the meetings/discussions. Regardless of whether it's CS or others within the club....key figures/players/list managers within the club were approached directly and are in deep discussion. Scully's management informs them that they wish to finalise a deal within the next week or so (ie., before season's end). That for some unknown reason, NOW is the time to finalise things and bring them to a head. Scully's management inform the club, that the deal the MFC has offered him is close to the money, real close. He strongly prefers to remain at the club, however aside from some minor i's and t's, there's one major sticking point that stands between him signing with the MFC. Yep, you guessed it.... They say he's happy to sign, but only if Bailey is NOT a part of things coaching wise next year!! CS/Others involved in the discussions approach the board. The board are leaning towards extending DB for another year or maybe just leaning towards re-signing him but haven't yet finalised the terms etc and have decided to leave this until after the season's end in order to more fairly assess things depending on how things pan out performance wise for the remaining games, including a potential finals birth. The players somehow get wind of this. As one would expect in most tight nit organisations, there's eyes/ears and noses sniffing about in every corner. Someone gets a sniff and the rumours start to bounce. CS and/or others at the top, want DB out in order to retain Scully. During the week CS and/or others convince the board that DB has to go at seasons end. The board finally succumbs at some stage during the week, and DB is informed his contract will not be renewed at seasons end, even though he remains the coach and will see the season out. To cut a long (potentially complete BS lol) story short..... A few players in the leadership group (or the entire leadership group itself) get together somewhere, and together they come up with 'a very cunning plan' (Baldrick)! They're going to protest against CS etc and the board's decision in order to make a point to them and the board, that they want DB in next year AND/OR that there's no way ONE solitary player (in his negotiations with the club) should be influencing the decision as to whether the present coach stays or goes next year, regardless of whether he does stay or go. What sort of protest?.....well .... something like.... "Hey, if you think we're going to accept this crap from CS/the Board/others, think again! Maybe we just wont put in for a quarter or two. It could get worse if there's any further threat to DB's position. Tell CS/Others who instigated this push....To back off right now!". Ok maybe it's not that, but something along those lines. The leadership group's intentions were never to lose by such a massive margin. They thought they were in control and feeling confident they could go with the Cats after a period of cruising early in the match to make their point. Their plan was looking ok, up until the point that it dawned on them that the Cats weren't aware of the plan and they had 12 rookies in the team. In addition, the Cats had brought their AAA game into the match from the get go, as well as being fired up big time with the return of their spiritual veteran Cam Mooney. Too late to turn the match around and make it a moderate blow out. The momentum gone, the Cats smelt blood real early, and went for the jugular. OOOPS..........Plan backfired...big time! Scully's management (and CS/others in MFC) got what they wanted and now, more than likely, signs/stays. Leadership group, or parts thereof.....ummm.... well, watch this space! Call me crazy!

I agree. All these media lunch time legends are sinking the boots in while we're down. Easy pickings. They forgot to add half a dozen other clubs, as mentioned above, who also tanked to get their picks. It's the system fellas. And we didn't create it. We just used and abused it as did everyone else who had the opportunity. To all those media mega minds and supporters (many of whom aren't even members of the club they say they support) who are pushing this "MFC should be held accountable crap"......let me just say..... UP YOURS YOU BUNCH OF WEAK PR^%#S!!!!!

+ 1,000,000 here He's entitled to his view as a commentator sure. But as to why he continually involves himself as some sort of muse or powerbroker when the club calls on him i have no idea. Easy stuff when you don't commit and step away after influencing the decisions and watch/criticise from afar. As to why the Club continues to call on him, that's another question in itself. Sad that he was a part of the process that supposedly overlooked Sheedy in preference for Bailey and now he's played a part in his downfall in the last few days from all accounts. This club needs to get over the Lyon factor in a big way. His involvement/influence in our appointment of a coach last time around has resulted in a big fail. Lets hope we have sense and maturity enough now to step away from the default position of 'Lets ask G. Lyon for some input' when the big decisions arise from here, including the next appointment!! Time for the MFC to grow up, grow some balls and move on from G. Lyon for as long as he wont commit to this club. FFS Gary, stay on the other side and just commentate please mate!!

Assuming it's CS doing most of the fronting..... could someone on here who has a journalistic/political savy background do me a favour and translate whatever he's about to tripe out there please? Wonderful talker but darned if i can find any sense in his answers so far this year when i've listened to his interviews. Maybe my mind is slowing as father time catches up with mother nature

True, but i think whoever is coming in as a long term replacement, needs to go right through every aspect of the Footy Dept from the top down and turn it on it's head, re energize it and turn it into a serious heavyweight going forward. We need to ensure that we never ever go close to revisiting the record books on the negative side as we've done yet again. Records must be broken, but the other way up from here.... win/loss, winning away from home, interstate, winning margins, winning the close ones etc. And ultimately, winning the ultimate prize within a reasonable time frame. No more Mr Nice Guy anymore from the President, to the head Coach, the Captain down to every player who remains after the review going into our new 'post Bailey' era. Thanks to many devoted years from DB where he sacrificed in order to get a very inexperienced list developed and up there over a long term plan to the risk of his tenure. He paid the ultimate price as a result of other deficiencies, in particular his inability to form a strategy/game plan etc that would worry or push the top eight teams on a consistent basis or at least shut them down to limit the damage when the going got ugly, which unfortunately was most of the time against teams at the upper end of the scale. People will blame yesterday and the players for his demise in many cases, however, it had been building pretty much since the West Coast capitulation, with yesterday the massive final catalyst. Good luck to DB and to whoever takes over as caretaker from here.

His fellow panel members on the 7 Footy Show today were pushing him as a suitor. He was VERY eager to laugh it off and make the point "No No NO!!!...there's no way i'm coaching" Can't see the Pies letting Malthouse off the contract hook at least for next year. They'll pay him huge $$ just to insure he doesn't go elsewhere in the first year of Buckley's takeover i reckon. I'd like to think we might have a stab at Clarkson but i can't see him leaving the Hawks at this point given his performance to date. Maybe Eade depending on what happens to the Doggies in the last 4 rounds from here. The field of top end choices is thinning by the week unfortunately.

I can't see how holding a grudge like that to the point of committing hari kari on Saturday is something you would want at any club though and that any player would want this type of result. Sullies the name of the playing group as well as the coach i would've thought. Pretty selfish act if it was carried out to that level and i'm not saying it was the reason behind the mauling. Not saying it hasn't had an effect thought. Oh well. All by the by now by the looks of it with Bailey gone apparently.

I think Blze mayve had a few frothies or two eh mate? Can't blame ya. We need all the analgesics we can get our hands on at the moment

Something must have occurred during the week to trigger yesterday's melt down other than the year's roller coaster/fatigue/Bailey not "having the players' respect etc. However, word outside the club (from a reliable source....yep, bet you've heard that before lol) has it that the players STILL haven't been able to forgive Bailes for dumping J Mac a year or so too early and sending him packing against the wishes of most within the club. This doesn't excuse yesterday's deebacle, and if it has any truth to it at all, then it probably speaks more of the senior playing group than it does of Bailes.

Like i said Hang.... just keep believing that it's just a matter of spending dollars on the FD alone mate. I agree. No need for any passion, effort or pride etc as well mate. It's just all about how much $ we spend within the FD. I'm a believer mate.... keep on bananering! B)

Lol de cali. Maybe the club isn't selling enough bananas yet! Don't worry....Hang will show us the way to the promised land! Hec, this just might be the start of the rise of the planet of the apes. As long as he don't take over the planet. I'm sure Hang could also recruit recruits some fellow apes to the club to add some, dare i say it Hang, much needed grunt to our list. Provided the Demons win a flag as a result....i'll be more than happy. Go Hang!!! Maybe we should rename ourselves the Melbourne Bananas! Club sure is good at driving us bananas that's for sure

Goodbye Deano. Nice guy and all but..... P.S. Thanks for the memories mate

I agree with you Hang. I was wrong all along. We definitely need less passion/pride/grunt/intensity in this team. This has nothing to do with playing football at all. It's about time our club woke up to this also! Oh hang on (parden the pun lol), didn't we do so yesterday? However, may i suggest you ask the club to go and recruit robots and program them accordingly so that their level of output on the field can match the level of input spent on the FD $$ wise? It should also be compared to the spends of all other clubs so that we can measure and match the level of output in order that the outcomes on game day, match appropriately with Club's spend on FD in comparison to all other clubs so that we end up finishing on the ladder at about the spot our FD spend would indicate using your theory? By the way, the Coach, Skills Dept, List Managers, Fitness trainers, Assistant coaches etc....have no say in this. They must adhere to the comparison of dollars spent and make sure we finish in the same position on the ladder as we rank spend wise on the FD dept give or take one position maybe. In addition they will need to convey this decision to other FDs of other clubs (such as North) to make sure they also aim to finish in the appropriate relative position at year's end. No punching above or below your weight here thank you! Although the quality of choice of robot may well be impeded by the maximum spend within the FD on the other factors you mentioned such as coaching/skills dept/preping/performance factors/drafting/list management. But this isn't a factor. It's the overall FD budget/spend you're looking at yes? So the final result at the end of the year should rank with the level of spend at each of the other clubs. Nothing more....nothing less. This all makes sense to me now. Thank you Hang

Forget about floppy soft scarfs How about sending a giant truckload of bricks and dump it outside the FD. Aside from a replacement for Bails (Eade maybe) and a few others within the FD for next year, we need more players built like a brick shite house in this team who have some real mongrel in them (a la Tappy) and who can lay (and stick) a crunching tackle and are "willing" and able to do so time after time after time (eg., 2nd and 3rd efforts) as well as apply some kind of forward press! No more skinny boys like Morton/Bennell/Gysberts/Jetta/Strauss/Cook & Scully who get brushed aside and swatted like flies in the contest. No more outside star gazers and watchers/waiters like Jurrah. Along with a key forward, a classy tough mid fielder (Mitchel/Chappy/Watson type), a strong tall defender who can pack mark run off half back....Nearly a whole new team ARRGHHH!!

Ok, so no one is to blame it's just a matter of finding a few more $ to spend in the FD and the effort/intensity/grunt/output/passion/pride will miraculously improve throughout the playing group and we're on our winning way up the ladder!! Yahooooooooooo! Holy Lucifer you've done it, you have the answer there Hang!! Albeit it would no doubt be very helpful, i don't see this this as the panacea for avoiding disasters such as yesterday. So what you're also kind of saying then is that you think members should be happy and just lay down after what some would argue is the blackest day on the field (or very close to it), in our club's history? You may have been playing with your banana a little too often i think. Might be a good time to come down outta the tree and look around a little. Nice try, but a little pre-historic in its simplicity

The Something > The fact i was at work and i don't have foxtel anyway (thank Lucifer) > Jordie for getting 25 possessions amongst the rabble and being mentioned a few times on radio as being in the mix (whilst getting smashed the other way by Selwood) > Dunny Brush for kicking our 1 and only goal to half time and getting under Chappy's skin for some reason lol > Watts for trying his guts out and getting 17 possessions > Bate for showing something in the 3rd The Bad > The Senior players most of whom went AWOL > Playing yet another team into 'super' form and playing Mooney into some sort of form after showing nothing in previous games this year. The Ugly > Whoever made the decision to select Bailey ahead of Sheedy 4 years ago and believed this was a good choice for our club overall. > Zero Zilch Nil Nicht fight shown by any player when Dunny was getting hammered on the ground by Chappy.....a reflection of how soft this team is (Moloney excluded as he wasn't on the field at the time for some reason lol) > The inability of Bailey to motivate this team whenever they're challenged (generally, not just in this game) > The lack of a 'SHUT DOWN" plan C game plan (to limit the damage) when the opposition gets on a roll and is likely (should things continue) to take the game out of our hands and its about to get ugly. > Green. A good player when things are going ok but a woeful leader of men when things aren't going quite so well > Rivers, who is not up to AFL standard, even before yesterday's result. A point i've made on a few occasions prior to today. > Chip for going missing when the going got tough > The Jurrah experiment (which has now failed) and again, isn't up to AFL standard. > The players (i would like to use the word team but they aren't a team at this point) for allowing itself to continue to play "Unaccountable" footy and believe that it's acceptable to do so > The players for allowing themselves to play ameature football at various times throughout the year (including yesterday's humiliation obviously) in a professional league > The fact that there's now no obvious 'willing' suitor to Bailey for next year > The fact that the MFC will now (yet again) become the laughing stock of the AFL > The impact this will have on aquiring a decent coach for the future and decent players during trade/draft time. Honestly, who would blame any player for shying away from this club after that result. GWS & GCS are looking pretty attractive versus us if that's the choice they have put to them after yesterday. > The impact this could have on memberships/sponsors/finances/ tv fixtures for next year etc > Given the context of where we were supposed to be, the blackest day in our clubs history (Norm Smith sacking aside).

Correct. We wont and IMO we've gone backwards this year. I would say at least 2 pre seasons away from even matching it with middle of the rung teams and that's just in a physical sense. And we are so far away from matching it with anyone in the top six on a consistent basis it's scary. Top teams also demonstrate how much talent/fitness/ability we have/haven't got. There wasn't a moment in today's game that i thought to myself, "wow, we've uncovered someone/something special here, or the game plan really seems to be finally coming together...as a club (on the field) we're finally getting somewhere, we've made some significant progress this year, the structure is really starting to take shape and form". Just nothing other than a few individual efforts from Petterd, Dunn, Martin, Mckenzie (shut down role on Mitchel) and Tapscott. Reaction times when up against the top 6 clubs are just too slow. Caught far too often too easily, even when there's a fair amount of decision time. The top 6 teams escape the stoppages way too easily against us way too often. Decision making generally poor when under decent to full on pressure. We don't work for each other nor do we play 'team' footy and take the game/opposition on often enough with run and carry style play that worries or upsets the opposition for more than a few minutes in spasmodic passages of play. We're often standing still in the back line and stationary. The opposition teams run run run and we just look too slow or unwilling to find a man to shut down quickly enough when we turn the ball over. And senior plays seem to chase the ball in general play instead of finding their man once the ball's left their general area. This creates yet another free man/option opportunity for the opposition to hit up once they find that free man again as the play continues. And turn the ball over we do. Even senior players, time and time and time again. Jones & Sylvia classic examples today as well as dumb free kicks given away at crucial times (Moloney). Match ups pre match are often questionable. Frawley to Buddy was always a height mis-match IMO and nullified one of the few advantages we have when Frawley applies some creative play and run off half back for us. Instead of having the option to be attacking he has to watch his key forward at all times and play him close. Garland surely would have been the option for Buddy. Can leap to spoil and run with him as well. Couldn't have got a worse result from it and would've freed up Chip to provide the run and creative side off half back. Another poor match up decision by the FD/Bailey. Neither appear to be learning and Bailey seems unable to motivate this team against anyone other than interstate clubs (West Coast excluded), Richmond and the Bombres at the G. At one stage we had Garland playing on Rioli in the forward half lol. What a joke. Surely Nicholson (at least he'd be able to run with him and learn something) or Bennell (albeit i don't rate him to shut down Rioli either...but hopefully he'd run and pressure him just a little) and allow Garland to match up against a taller defender (eg., Hale). Most senior players seem unwilling (or unable??) to make the 2nd and 3rd efforts when the game was up for grabs. Martin running off half back early in the last, 4 bounces, not one lead up target?? Turns the ball over through lack of options...goal to the Dorks. Sorry to say but Rivers under any sort of pressure on a half decent opponent is just not up to this level. Not many obvious replacements at this point but it's time to start blooding someone else. He cost us at least 2 - 3 goals in the first half. Movement out of goal square after a point is still way too slow. Other teams race it out of there (not all the time but far more often than we do) before the cameras even had a chance to show the umpire finishing his flag waving!! We take tooooo long. Then when we've made a little progress through the zone, say to our half back line, some of our players decide to go back deep into the goal square again, lacking the instinct/confidence/ability to look up field or take the game on with run & carry, and we have to start allover again from the goal square. At times, our style of play is comical. Not all in the same boat, but as a team, we played/looked like amateurs today. The West Coast, Carlton and 2nd half of first Dorks game aside, one of the most disappointing efforts all season. IMHO we are at least 2 pre seasons, a key forward, some class/grunt through the middle, a brutish tallish defender (maybe Garland with 2 more pre seasons but unlikely) and a new coach away from going anywhere other than 9th to lower with this present set up/list. If we're happy with that sort of result year after year, and to waste the talent we may have with some of our recent draft picks, then i'm sure 'steady as she goes' will be fine at the MFC from here.

Melbourne vs Hawthorn Round 18, 2011 - Experience Stats Total games played by Team Demons - 1,372 Hawks – 1,897 Average games played per player Demons - 62 Hawks – 86 Average Height of Teams Demons - 188cm Hawks – 186cm Average Weight of Teams Demons - 86kg Hawks – 86kg Average games played by category 0-49 Demons - 23 / 12 (average games/number of players) Hawks - 18 / 8 50-99 Demons - 72 / 4 Hawks - 80 / 4 100+ Demons – 135 / 6 Hawks - 158 / 10 Stats courtesy of footywire.com