Demon Dynasty

Exactly. A new Coach (assuming he's from the outside) will need time to assess and gauge, who (in his mind), is the man for the Captaincy etc. I would hate to see the Captaincy being announced prior to at least round 6 (or whatever period the new coach feels is appropriate to assess) given our lack of an obvious 'stand out' leader at this point and the apparent effect this has had on our on field results so far this year. If it's announced prior to seasons start next year, i'll be having a good chuckle, given what's taken place this year. A new coach could also put it to the players as a whole, that he'll be looking for leaders who truly wish to lead this group and who stick their hand up for the job, during game day matches and also their performance and they way they handle themselves off the field. Including the roles of captaincy and vice captain. Like every position in this club from here, from the President, the CEO, The Football Manager down to the boot strapper, each role should be truly earned and deserved, before we just give it away for PR/Marketing purposes and name's sake. If we're going to be the best, then we need to select the very best, in all areas of this club.

This >>> ....."The concept of empowering player leadership groups to help run their own teams is justified if they are capable of the responsibility and it does not adversely affect their core role as on-field performers. If they cannot the results can be disastrous. Basically one size does not fit all and a good dose of authoritarian coaching style might be just what the Demons need at this stage of their development, because their player leadership group is just not getting it done." (Quote from Lethal's article today)

Extremely. A great asset to our club it would seem. Thanks for putting that up Rob. Has revived my hope a little after last weekend's on field debacle and the post match off field saga/speculation.

I agree Rhino that he's not exactly our toughest player in terms of winning the ball. But i wouldn't call punching Chappy in the guts while standing right beside him timid....would you try it lol? Pretty game stuff i reckon. Ok, a little stupid maybe, especially given that he's playing with such an insipid bunch of team mates (i use the term team mates loosely here). About all we've got in the hardness stakes atm is Moloney (albeit a bit of a flat track bully it seems), McKenzie and Tappy. And i'll give a mention to Nicholson (again) who at least remonstrated a little against Chappy. At least Dunny Brush did 'something' as the great John Kennedy was heard to ask at one point. I admit it mightn't have been the greatest contribution of all time, but he 'did' something at least. The same could not be said of many of his so called mates on this dark day. Agree. Something we are missing big time in this group. Call it what you will, courage/confidence/toughness/hardness. We seem to have recruited too many nice skinny boys. Sure, many recruits start off a little on the skinny side as they're just boys and need to fill out over many seasons obviously, but it's this 'nice' feel that many of our players have about them, with a few exceptions. I saw Watts as one of these up until this year where i feel he's come on real sweet so far. He was also lacking in the courage dept a little in front of packs, but with another pre season under his belt at the end of last year, he seems to be committing himself to the contest and willing to back into packs a little more now. I'm sure another 1 or 2 pre-seasons will see him grow even further in the contested area. A shame the club has appeared to implode just when we 'seemed' to be getting things on track and setting ourselves for a serious shot at finals next year. I'm not sure where you see things from here, but it's almost Mick, Roos (maybe Eade as a 3rd best option) or bust in the short term from my point of view. Is this club up to bringing in another untried younger coach? I have my doubts given the off field shinanigans that have now surfaced. Hopefully Garry can crack some heads and bring the factions (assuming we can believe the rumours) into line, clear out the cob webs and hangers on and we start afresh next year. Feels like we're putting a huge bet down on Garry and him producing some sort of result/outcome though don't you think?

I'm with you Striker Everyone says we don't stand for anything. That's cause we never stand up against anyone that bullies us. Talent. experience, skills aside, this is also a major reason why the top teams smash us week after week. It's called arrogance and belief. They have it, and we don't. And not just on the scoreboard. They man handle us and throw us around like dolls as they believe we're weak. That's what they've been told from their leaders and coach. Passed down to them from generation to generation. "Just crack in for 4 quarters, knock the crap outta them and knock em around and the Demons will fold". Well apart from the Northey years and a few shortly after under Balme, that's been pretty much true of this club since i've been following them. Only have to look at what Chappy did to Dunny and the lack of flag flying. This hurt more for me than anything else on black Saturday. Even though the whole freakin day hurts! I heard Dermie say exactly this the other eve on SEN. He couldn't believe no one went in to remonstrate. It's time to draw the line here. It has to be Carlton who ran with this crap earlier this year...publicly in total arrogance and disrespect...AFTER the match (hec it wasn't even their idea, they pinched it from Dermie). If this means a toe to toe punch on before the siren and there's an all in with major damage in order to prove a point...including suspensions.....then so be it. As long as there's no 'behind the play' cowardly stuff like a Mathews king hit or Dipper/Buddy elbows, and we put in 4 quarters of maximum effort and crack in footy afterwards as well....i'll be more than pleased to see this every week from here against any opposition. We are Demons after all....aren't we??? This type of approach will also sort the men out from the boys, and turn some of the boys into men. In addition, many players from other clubs, especially those already sure of a finals appearance, wont be able to match us in the stoush stakes from here, as they'll be too worried to lose their place in the coming finals series (as will their Coaches). It's an advantage as we have absolutely nothing to lose. Lets face it, we aren't going to have an impact, if we do make the finals. So we can afford to lose a few soldiers. We can play without fear! Now come on boys..... GO OUT THERE AND PLAY LIKE FREAKIN DEMONS!!

Heyy guys. UPDATE! No one's going anywhere.....unless they've already signed. As a player, would you be stepping out of a club right now that could....and it's a big IF i realise..... but just could...snag Mick? I don't think so. But like Belze said above.... it's time to stop the automatic start up policy. Everyone, from the Captain down, must now earn their place in this team. Regardless of what's on offer at Casey. Can't get any worse than last Saturday as long as we have 22 committed players each week who earn their stripes.

Todd, Garry and someone from the outside who knows the inner workings of a successful football club. In addition to getting an A grade coach, we need a manager or someone who was deeply involved in a recently very successful club, to come and do a full review of how this club operates/communicates and co-ordinates things from the top executive down do the FD and boot strappers and fix anything that needs fixing, budgets allowing of course. Although some are saying we've already done this and swept it under the carpet? If so, Garry et al need to revisit this review pronto. A review of the review as such. Again, I would ask for an experienced football manager/administrator from a successful club (even on contract) to review it and seek advice on its worth. Combine parts of the two reviews (if the earlier review has any merit) into a final manifesto. Then move on it quick smart and push through the changes if required. However, both the Senior Coach and Executive need to sign off on it and anoint it, so that they are both in full agreement on the direction we are taking over a given period. No baulking or turning back once it's agreed to! Everyone pulling in the same direction for as long as contracts are binding! If this includes the CEO staying the hell out of the FD's day to day operations or maybe it does involve him, then so be it. However, clear lines need to be drawn in such matters! Assuming there is some truth to the CEO/player rift, we need to ensure this never takes place again. Glass walls if required. No more melt downs on or off the field thanks.

True true. Guess i'm being selfish eh. We don't know where he's at health wise. I just wonder if he really wants to step aside though. He might enjoy the cut and thrust a little (without last weekends turmoil of course....who would). But i recall him saying its something he enjoys and its given him something to get up for in the morning. The weekend and subsequent turmoil aside, It may even be to his detriment to remove him from this role at this point. Either way we need to respect his wishes.

I think once he's in there, he'll find it a little hard to just turn the tap off and turn the other cheek. His other commitments sound pretty full on though. Only time will tell At least Gary calls a spade a spade so hopefully we'll start to get some straight talking/feedback from him once he's had a chance to rattle the cage a little.

Yep No argument here mate. Hence the rolling eyes next to Green's name in brackets. It was meant to be cynical even if i didn't convey it properly. I honesty couldn't see him doing anything like this either. I was saying this more in a wishful way. Most other clubs wouldn't put up with this crap on the field and leaders would stick there hand up at half time and do what they're supposed to do during the second half to at least stick their fingers in a few holes in the dyke! No rude comments please peeps!!! There's always clubs at the bottom who may be void of key leaders as they're rebuilding. But i just figured we were better than a 'complete capitulation' for 4 whole quarters at this point in our development, regardless of the zany off field dramas. I was more thinkiing of Beamer re standing up. But as he was apparently out for the count with the flu and with 0 possessions to half time then taken off never to be seen for the remainder of the game, this left a gaping black hole of leadership on the field. I just hope that it truly was the flu that kept him to zero possessions and not some other crazy plan or shinanigans amongst the leadership group, including himself. I guess we'll never know. It was left to a maturing young man in Watts along with a few supposed has beens like Bate and Dunny to fly the flag a little, albeit only for a few minutes from what i've gathered. I don't have Foxtel and was working on the day, so i've only seen about 2 minutes of lowlights so far. But i heard every excruciating moment unfold on SEN's call. Although i did see the end of Bailey's run the week before against the Hawks (the straw that broke the camel's back for me), i still never expected such a black day and what i was hearing as it unfolded. What a sad day for our club. The blackest that i've experienced in my 40 years of following them.

Agree. Extremely well spoken and said. I just wish one of our leaders (Green ) had of said something similar at half time. Like ... "Boys, if you don't step up to the plate and give me and this club everything you got ..... then it's me and all of you tomorrow in the ring! I'll be challenging and taking on on anyone who i see shirking a contest or not giving there all out there for this second half!". I realise this sort of stuff is pre-historic and frowned upon in today's game, but we sure needed someone to do something drastic that's for sure. Having said that, i think Gary involving himself finally is at least something positive in the short term. But that's all it is apparently as he's only saying he'll commit up to the start of next season, no further. My worry would be who fills his shoes/role, whatever that might be, afterwards. Personally i think Gary needs to commit for a longer term if we're to sort out the 'culture' problem within this club and set it on the right track for decades to come. It's that big a task. A 6 month stint (or thereabouts) just wont cut it IMO.

It wasn't just Jones watching on. At least 'Schoolboy' Nicholson went in to protest his disapproval. But agreed, when the going gets really tough and it's a do or die contest or clash, Jones does tend to shy away at times. Hopefully he can weed this out of his game from here and bring a tough defensive side to his game.

Yeh.....well i did put Roos and Eade in there as well so i'd appreciate it if you at least quoted the whole sentence for context. Not that they would want to either i realise. But agreed. I was forgetting the nature of Mick. He wouldn't, and yes he would want to go down as a maybe the greatest so far if he did so, regardless of which team he decided to go to. Maybe Todd as an assistant then if he came our way. Doubt this would be till 2013 though, unless they can find a way around the contract conundrum. Grant Thomas believes we should be going after Denis Pagan but we wont as he's too tough and uncompromising for the executive at MFC to deal with. Reckons we'll end up putting an untried coach in so he's easier to manage and we're able to use the "still learning/growing/developing" excuse over the next 5 years etc. Believes appointing Eade would be a huge mistake for us as he'll bring more of the technocrat style that isn't quite able to get the team over the final hurdles to reach the big one. Interesting viewing on Footy classifieds tonight. Lots of 'coming out' home truths.

Nice post Crawf. Can't send em all to the door but in general i agree. No more pretenders please! We need full 100% commitment from anyone who wishes to play for the Red & Blue from here. Time to bleed for the club fellas. No more skinny/smallish recruits either please, unless they're an absolute stand out in terms or skills/talent, love to crack in regardless and likely to fill out into man bods after say 3 - 4 full pre- seasons eg., Betts/Rioli/Thomas types. I would love to see Wanna on that example list, if only he'd commit and go for it. Seems like many of our smaller boys end up as floaters and skiers far too often.

+ 1.... if we can't hook a big time alternative senior coach Mentor set up with Todd sounds enticing. Maybe the mentor is Malthouse, Eade or Roos. Roos did say he didn't want to coach. Said nothing about mentoring though did he? Thompson also said he never wanted to coach again

lmao WYL Heyy, you might have something here. We can use the profits (like there would be any!) for the FD spend. As an aside, i'm particularly worried about CS. I think he may have stuck his nose in to too many corners player review/FD wise instead of sticking to his CEO defined role. Hopefully he's been put on notice if so. I'm not yet convinced he's such a savior down there. He could well be part of some of the problems that are being speculated on around here and the media. There may well be some truth to this 'Micro Manage' theory that's been doing the rounds on here for quite a while.

+ 1 here There may be some truth somewhere in amongst these theories and speculation, but until someone provides a real source that's close to the action..... Although..... i have one theory of my own lol. And no, it has absolutely no foundation in truth or basis of fact lol. Just a theory. Here it is.... Lets say during the week before the game against the Cats (or even earlier, say the week leading up to the Dorks match), Scully's management have approached the club, and maybe that approach and discussion involves CS directly or he's somehow gotten heavily involved in the meetings/discussions. Regardless of whether it's CS or others within the club....key figures/players/list managers within the club were approached directly and are in deep discussion. Scully's management informs them that they wish to finalise a deal within the next week or so (ie., before season's end). That for some unknown reason, NOW is the time to finalise things and bring them to a head. Scully's management inform the club, that the deal the MFC has offered him is close to the money, real close. He strongly prefers to remain at the club, however aside from some minor i's and t's, there's one major sticking point that stands between him signing with the MFC. Yep, you guessed it.... They say he's happy to sign, but only if Bailey is NOT a part of things coaching wise next year!! CS/Others involved in the discussions approach the board. The board are leaning towards extending DB for another year or maybe just leaning towards re-signing him but haven't yet finalised the terms etc and have decided to leave this until after the season's end in order to more fairly assess things depending on how things pan out performance wise for the remaining games, including a potential finals birth. The players somehow get wind of this. As one would expect in most tight nit organisations, there's eyes/ears and noses sniffing about in every corner. Someone gets a sniff and the rumours start to bounce. CS and/or others at the top, want DB out in order to retain Scully. During the week CS and/or others convince the board that DB has to go at seasons end. The board finally succumbs at some stage during the week, and DB is informed his contract will not be renewed at seasons end, even though he remains the coach and will see the season out. To cut a long (potentially complete BS lol) story short..... A few players in the leadership group (or the entire leadership group itself) get together somewhere, and together they come up with 'a very cunning plan' (Baldrick)! They're going to protest against CS etc and the board's decision in order to make a point to them and the board, that they want DB in next year AND/OR that there's no way ONE solitary player (in his negotiations with the club) should be influencing the decision as to whether the present coach stays or goes next year, regardless of whether he does stay or go. What sort of protest?.....well .... something like.... "Hey, if you think we're going to accept this crap from CS/the Board/others, think again! Maybe we just wont put in for a quarter or two. It could get worse if there's any further threat to DB's position. Tell CS/Others who instigated this push....To back off right now!". Ok maybe it's not that, but something along those lines. The leadership group's intentions were never to lose by such a massive margin. They thought they were in control and feeling confident they could go with the Cats after a period of cruising early in the match to make their point. Their plan was looking ok, up until the point that it dawned on them that the Cats weren't aware of the plan and they had 12 rookies in the team. In addition, the Cats had brought their AAA game into the match from the get go, as well as being fired up big time with the return of their spiritual veteran Cam Mooney. Too late to turn the match around and make it a moderate blow out. The momentum gone, the Cats smelt blood real early, and went for the jugular. OOOPS..........Plan backfired...big time! Scully's management (and CS/others in MFC) got what they wanted and now, more than likely, signs/stays. Leadership group, or parts thereof.....ummm.... well, watch this space! Call me crazy!

I agree. All these media lunch time legends are sinking the boots in while we're down. Easy pickings. They forgot to add half a dozen other clubs, as mentioned above, who also tanked to get their picks. It's the system fellas. And we didn't create it. We just used and abused it as did everyone else who had the opportunity. To all those media mega minds and supporters (many of whom aren't even members of the club they say they support) who are pushing this "MFC should be held accountable crap"......let me just say..... UP YOURS YOU BUNCH OF WEAK PR^%#S!!!!!

+ 1,000,000 here He's entitled to his view as a commentator sure. But as to why he continually involves himself as some sort of muse or powerbroker when the club calls on him i have no idea. Easy stuff when you don't commit and step away after influencing the decisions and watch/criticise from afar. As to why the Club continues to call on him, that's another question in itself. Sad that he was a part of the process that supposedly overlooked Sheedy in preference for Bailey and now he's played a part in his downfall in the last few days from all accounts. This club needs to get over the Lyon factor in a big way. His involvement/influence in our appointment of a coach last time around has resulted in a big fail. Lets hope we have sense and maturity enough now to step away from the default position of 'Lets ask G. Lyon for some input' when the big decisions arise from here, including the next appointment!! Time for the MFC to grow up, grow some balls and move on from G. Lyon for as long as he wont commit to this club. FFS Gary, stay on the other side and just commentate please mate!!

Assuming it's CS doing most of the fronting..... could someone on here who has a journalistic/political savy background do me a favour and translate whatever he's about to tripe out there please? Wonderful talker but darned if i can find any sense in his answers so far this year when i've listened to his interviews. Maybe my mind is slowing as father time catches up with mother nature

True, but i think whoever is coming in as a long term replacement, needs to go right through every aspect of the Footy Dept from the top down and turn it on it's head, re energize it and turn it into a serious heavyweight going forward. We need to ensure that we never ever go close to revisiting the record books on the negative side as we've done yet again. Records must be broken, but the other way up from here.... win/loss, winning away from home, interstate, winning margins, winning the close ones etc. And ultimately, winning the ultimate prize within a reasonable time frame. No more Mr Nice Guy anymore from the President, to the head Coach, the Captain down to every player who remains after the review going into our new 'post Bailey' era. Thanks to many devoted years from DB where he sacrificed in order to get a very inexperienced list developed and up there over a long term plan to the risk of his tenure. He paid the ultimate price as a result of other deficiencies, in particular his inability to form a strategy/game plan etc that would worry or push the top eight teams on a consistent basis or at least shut them down to limit the damage when the going got ugly, which unfortunately was most of the time against teams at the upper end of the scale. People will blame yesterday and the players for his demise in many cases, however, it had been building pretty much since the West Coast capitulation, with yesterday the massive final catalyst. Good luck to DB and to whoever takes over as caretaker from here.

His fellow panel members on the 7 Footy Show today were pushing him as a suitor. He was VERY eager to laugh it off and make the point "No No NO!!!...there's no way i'm coaching" Can't see the Pies letting Malthouse off the contract hook at least for next year. They'll pay him huge $$ just to insure he doesn't go elsewhere in the first year of Buckley's takeover i reckon. I'd like to think we might have a stab at Clarkson but i can't see him leaving the Hawks at this point given his performance to date. Maybe Eade depending on what happens to the Doggies in the last 4 rounds from here. The field of top end choices is thinning by the week unfortunately.

I can't see how holding a grudge like that to the point of committing hari kari on Saturday is something you would want at any club though and that any player would want this type of result. Sullies the name of the playing group as well as the coach i would've thought. Pretty selfish act if it was carried out to that level and i'm not saying it was the reason behind the mauling. Not saying it hasn't had an effect thought. Oh well. All by the by now by the looks of it with Bailey gone apparently.

I think Blze mayve had a few frothies or two eh mate? Can't blame ya. We need all the analgesics we can get our hands on at the moment

Something must have occurred during the week to trigger yesterday's melt down other than the year's roller coaster/fatigue/Bailey not "having the players' respect etc. However, word outside the club (from a reliable source....yep, bet you've heard that before lol) has it that the players STILL haven't been able to forgive Bailes for dumping J Mac a year or so too early and sending him packing against the wishes of most within the club. This doesn't excuse yesterday's deebacle, and if it has any truth to it at all, then it probably speaks more of the senior playing group than it does of Bailes.