Demon Dynasty

I think Hang is correct here re the professional side of things (in AZ) making it probably so much above and beyond the amateur on offer at Falls/NZ. But then there's the advantage argument vs $ spent side. Maybe this is for us in the short term. Need $ to set a program and run it professionally regardless. Then you have the Cats etc not doing argument. There's so much else we need to get right at this point though. This to me would be a nice icing on the cake, but one which needs addressing once the other pieces of the puzzle are put in place....assuming they are at some stage ...not holding my breath

Absolute Gold. As an aside, makes you wonder what the hell we were doing sending our club for an AFL demo in China (like they're going to form a potential supporter base/league or an international team...WTF?) and then supposedly leaving them to fluff around for 10 days or so afterwards. I realise it may have been an end of season junket on the back of the demo in order to save the club a few $$ maybe (yeh i have no idea....just pontificating). But we seem to do alot of amateur things at this club a little too often it seems. Maybe we should've asked the AFL to hold the demo in Arizona instead....

Gold

No need to sell another game North for 500k. Do a deal with Hancook for 500k. All players to run out one week (or even 2!) with a Hancook "tyre" as a big red hoop instead of the red V. Problem solved

Fab post Red (and Jack). In the short term we've got Garry who's a good defender/voice it would seem, however, he wont be around long enough and everyone knows it. Lets hope Jimma recovers pretty quickly but i still think we're lacking in this area even if he does. I wonder if Garry will have a change of heart once in there. But at this point we have to take Garry on his word re the length of his stay. A head kicking leader/strong voice for this Club is likely to be missing post Garry IMO. I realise CEO's/Presidents/Directors don't win games. But it helps to have a strong voice/leader at the top. Any suggestions?

Oops .... yeh it is ...oh well. The Phillips part is at least fact lol Oh, you don't need to clarify.... i think i was spot on if you weren't saying anything. I never said he owed it to make a decision. Just let them know of his likely intentions. I'm sure many players have been dropped towards the end of their careers and been told by the club their services aren't required any further with some notice so they're able to look for an alternative. Not saying it's common practice as each situation would no doubt be different, but i'm sure it's happened on occasions. Cheers

Kennett just slammed Garry's involvement on SEN. Reckons he needs to commit for longer, that he should take up a real position or no position and that it will take him much more than a 3 month commitment to have any impact. Otherwise he should stay out as it'll be more damaging. Anything that upsets/worries Jeffrey has to be a good thing surely!

This ^^^ Does this mean the board as a whole has never seen the Andrews' report either formally (as part of a board meeting/presentation) or informally (ie., individually outside of a formal board meeting)? Has any board member seen it i wonder? Many questions remain yet unanswered. It's going to be a very interesting off season period for this club.....again.

I realise Jim has yet another huge fight on his hands. And we have to respect what him and family decide on from here re commitments and his health situation of course. But, i'd also hate for Jim to be going into this battle, however long this one takes, thinking that he had to step out (for now), on such a low ebb in the club's long history. It was in no way his fault and i think we'd all love to thank him for his efforts so far and show him our support and hopefully give him a bit of a boost. Just wondering if someone close to the club (one of the Mods or someone on here) might be able to speak to someone and consider arranging a big "thank you/honor" day for Jimma and family to help them through this tough period?? Would have to be the Richmond or Gold Coast game obviously. I'd prefer Richmond as the crowd would be huge and a much more appreciative/appropriate atmosphere for such an occasion. Just putting it out there. Anyone? P.S. As an aside, this could also become a decent fund raiser if Jim wanted. He can choose the recipient...Reach or Cancer Foundation etc.

Lets hope not. He's quite a man old Jim. But i wouldn't write him off just yet. As we all know, Jim's one hell of a fighter, and although he's been through the mill umpteen times already, there's still some fightin' left in him yet i reckon. But yeh....i'd prefer to see him focus on what's important right now and conserve all his energy until he's totally overcome this bloody cursed thing. I think a very long holiday in the tropics afterwards with family would also do him good. Thanks for everything you've done for us so far mate! Amazing, inspirational stuff! Go get em Jimma!!

Interesting post Sylvia. Time for the heat and spotlight to be turned on these two individuals and the part they've played and are playing within the club. The problems that came to a head on Saturday can't just lie with the coach and playing group alone. Not saying all our problems, or any of them, lie with these two alone (or at all)...but everyone's position and performance so far, should be fully scrutinised and reviewed. I love Jimmy and admire all he's done so far (and wish him all the best in what must be an extremely draining fight), but with his illness now impacting him so cruely, this club clearly lacks leadership/direction at the top, at least from a public perspective (and mine). It also needs transparency in its relationship with members with regard to what happened in the last 6 months or so, and in particular the last week or 2, that resulted in 'Self Destruction' Saturday. This is a must have if many members are to believe whatever the club is going to try and sell us re: the clubs' goals/strategies for next year and beyond. Lets hope Garry can put his friendship/mates hat aside and get the job done.

Quote... "It's against AFL rules for me to publicly confirm that we have put an offer to Zac and Chad. But I can confirm that we have not, not, put offers to them" said Allen whilst winking and resisting the urge to physically stroke his own ego......Source - July 14, The White Maggot This, and the recent Phil Davis saga, would suggest that GWS are more than likely putting offers to players prior to season's end, at least verbally. If so, and they have put an offer (verbally) to tom's management, then Tom is potentially putting himself, his management and GWS at risk of some sort of sanction by the AFL (or potentially even legal action from the MFC), even if he just publicly says (even just to the club in private) that he's agreed to move on, prior to season's end. He may be under instruction from his management not to say either way IF this is the case. Not saying he's gone or going or that the above has any creedence. Just making a point as to why he might be laying low and not saying either way until season's end. If however, you're trying to say he hasn't decided yet, then that's a different argument. If so, my one point would be, why is it taking him so long to decide? Season's almost at an end now. He must have some idea surely? I think he owes it to the club and his fellow players to give at least some indication of his intentions (without saying he's agreed to anything with GWS...yet!!), so the club can start planning for his inclusion or exclusion (start compensation negotiations with AFL etc) for next year and whether we put 'finals' experience into him (potentially) at season's end or give that experience to another rookie/player. B)

Lol. They'd probably tear each others' throats out by about week 8. I don't mind either in preference to say Eade if we couldn't get Mick or Roos. To me, Choco has that 'Don't f%^k with me/Stick it right up em' look and presence about him don't you think? He's a little bit volatile, somewhat aggressive and blunt. Might shake a few monkies out of their cozy trees down there and wake the place up a little if he sees any deficiencies/shortcomings in the club, such as interference in the FD from the executive etc. He's also been to the well before on the field. He'll make sure the jobs done all round, including assistants. Authoritarian style will see the boys sitting up and taking notice, as well as the fact he's a proven premiership coach. I think he'll add the hardness and edge we've been lacking for so long. Exactly what this group needs at the moment i feel (if we can't get Mick).

He's technically not allowed to be signed by GWS until after the season's completed, so this makes complete sense.

Exactly. A new Coach (assuming he's from the outside) will need time to assess and gauge, who (in his mind), is the man for the Captaincy etc. I would hate to see the Captaincy being announced prior to at least round 6 (or whatever period the new coach feels is appropriate to assess) given our lack of an obvious 'stand out' leader at this point and the apparent effect this has had on our on field results so far this year. If it's announced prior to seasons start next year, i'll be having a good chuckle, given what's taken place this year. A new coach could also put it to the players as a whole, that he'll be looking for leaders who truly wish to lead this group and who stick their hand up for the job, during game day matches and also their performance and they way they handle themselves off the field. Including the roles of captaincy and vice captain. Like every position in this club from here, from the President, the CEO, The Football Manager down to the boot strapper, each role should be truly earned and deserved, before we just give it away for PR/Marketing purposes and name's sake. If we're going to be the best, then we need to select the very best, in all areas of this club.

This >>> ....."The concept of empowering player leadership groups to help run their own teams is justified if they are capable of the responsibility and it does not adversely affect their core role as on-field performers. If they cannot the results can be disastrous. Basically one size does not fit all and a good dose of authoritarian coaching style might be just what the Demons need at this stage of their development, because their player leadership group is just not getting it done." (Quote from Lethal's article today)

Extremely. A great asset to our club it would seem. Thanks for putting that up Rob. Has revived my hope a little after last weekend's on field debacle and the post match off field saga/speculation.

I agree Rhino that he's not exactly our toughest player in terms of winning the ball. But i wouldn't call punching Chappy in the guts while standing right beside him timid....would you try it lol? Pretty game stuff i reckon. Ok, a little stupid maybe, especially given that he's playing with such an insipid bunch of team mates (i use the term team mates loosely here). About all we've got in the hardness stakes atm is Moloney (albeit a bit of a flat track bully it seems), McKenzie and Tappy. And i'll give a mention to Nicholson (again) who at least remonstrated a little against Chappy. At least Dunny Brush did 'something' as the great John Kennedy was heard to ask at one point. I admit it mightn't have been the greatest contribution of all time, but he 'did' something at least. The same could not be said of many of his so called mates on this dark day. Agree. Something we are missing big time in this group. Call it what you will, courage/confidence/toughness/hardness. We seem to have recruited too many nice skinny boys. Sure, many recruits start off a little on the skinny side as they're just boys and need to fill out over many seasons obviously, but it's this 'nice' feel that many of our players have about them, with a few exceptions. I saw Watts as one of these up until this year where i feel he's come on real sweet so far. He was also lacking in the courage dept a little in front of packs, but with another pre season under his belt at the end of last year, he seems to be committing himself to the contest and willing to back into packs a little more now. I'm sure another 1 or 2 pre-seasons will see him grow even further in the contested area. A shame the club has appeared to implode just when we 'seemed' to be getting things on track and setting ourselves for a serious shot at finals next year. I'm not sure where you see things from here, but it's almost Mick, Roos (maybe Eade as a 3rd best option) or bust in the short term from my point of view. Is this club up to bringing in another untried younger coach? I have my doubts given the off field shinanigans that have now surfaced. Hopefully Garry can crack some heads and bring the factions (assuming we can believe the rumours) into line, clear out the cob webs and hangers on and we start afresh next year. Feels like we're putting a huge bet down on Garry and him producing some sort of result/outcome though don't you think?

I'm with you Striker Everyone says we don't stand for anything. That's cause we never stand up against anyone that bullies us. Talent. experience, skills aside, this is also a major reason why the top teams smash us week after week. It's called arrogance and belief. They have it, and we don't. And not just on the scoreboard. They man handle us and throw us around like dolls as they believe we're weak. That's what they've been told from their leaders and coach. Passed down to them from generation to generation. "Just crack in for 4 quarters, knock the crap outta them and knock em around and the Demons will fold". Well apart from the Northey years and a few shortly after under Balme, that's been pretty much true of this club since i've been following them. Only have to look at what Chappy did to Dunny and the lack of flag flying. This hurt more for me than anything else on black Saturday. Even though the whole freakin day hurts! I heard Dermie say exactly this the other eve on SEN. He couldn't believe no one went in to remonstrate. It's time to draw the line here. It has to be Carlton who ran with this crap earlier this year...publicly in total arrogance and disrespect...AFTER the match (hec it wasn't even their idea, they pinched it from Dermie). If this means a toe to toe punch on before the siren and there's an all in with major damage in order to prove a point...including suspensions.....then so be it. As long as there's no 'behind the play' cowardly stuff like a Mathews king hit or Dipper/Buddy elbows, and we put in 4 quarters of maximum effort and crack in footy afterwards as well....i'll be more than pleased to see this every week from here against any opposition. We are Demons after all....aren't we??? This type of approach will also sort the men out from the boys, and turn some of the boys into men. In addition, many players from other clubs, especially those already sure of a finals appearance, wont be able to match us in the stoush stakes from here, as they'll be too worried to lose their place in the coming finals series (as will their Coaches). It's an advantage as we have absolutely nothing to lose. Lets face it, we aren't going to have an impact, if we do make the finals. So we can afford to lose a few soldiers. We can play without fear! Now come on boys..... GO OUT THERE AND PLAY LIKE FREAKIN DEMONS!!

Heyy guys. UPDATE! No one's going anywhere.....unless they've already signed. As a player, would you be stepping out of a club right now that could....and it's a big IF i realise..... but just could...snag Mick? I don't think so. But like Belze said above.... it's time to stop the automatic start up policy. Everyone, from the Captain down, must now earn their place in this team. Regardless of what's on offer at Casey. Can't get any worse than last Saturday as long as we have 22 committed players each week who earn their stripes.

Todd, Garry and someone from the outside who knows the inner workings of a successful football club. In addition to getting an A grade coach, we need a manager or someone who was deeply involved in a recently very successful club, to come and do a full review of how this club operates/communicates and co-ordinates things from the top executive down do the FD and boot strappers and fix anything that needs fixing, budgets allowing of course. Although some are saying we've already done this and swept it under the carpet? If so, Garry et al need to revisit this review pronto. A review of the review as such. Again, I would ask for an experienced football manager/administrator from a successful club (even on contract) to review it and seek advice on its worth. Combine parts of the two reviews (if the earlier review has any merit) into a final manifesto. Then move on it quick smart and push through the changes if required. However, both the Senior Coach and Executive need to sign off on it and anoint it, so that they are both in full agreement on the direction we are taking over a given period. No baulking or turning back once it's agreed to! Everyone pulling in the same direction for as long as contracts are binding! If this includes the CEO staying the hell out of the FD's day to day operations or maybe it does involve him, then so be it. However, clear lines need to be drawn in such matters! Assuming there is some truth to the CEO/player rift, we need to ensure this never takes place again. Glass walls if required. No more melt downs on or off the field thanks.

True true. Guess i'm being selfish eh. We don't know where he's at health wise. I just wonder if he really wants to step aside though. He might enjoy the cut and thrust a little (without last weekends turmoil of course....who would). But i recall him saying its something he enjoys and its given him something to get up for in the morning. The weekend and subsequent turmoil aside, It may even be to his detriment to remove him from this role at this point. Either way we need to respect his wishes.

I think once he's in there, he'll find it a little hard to just turn the tap off and turn the other cheek. His other commitments sound pretty full on though. Only time will tell At least Gary calls a spade a spade so hopefully we'll start to get some straight talking/feedback from him once he's had a chance to rattle the cage a little.

Yep No argument here mate. Hence the rolling eyes next to Green's name in brackets. It was meant to be cynical even if i didn't convey it properly. I honesty couldn't see him doing anything like this either. I was saying this more in a wishful way. Most other clubs wouldn't put up with this crap on the field and leaders would stick there hand up at half time and do what they're supposed to do during the second half to at least stick their fingers in a few holes in the dyke! No rude comments please peeps!!! There's always clubs at the bottom who may be void of key leaders as they're rebuilding. But i just figured we were better than a 'complete capitulation' for 4 whole quarters at this point in our development, regardless of the zany off field dramas. I was more thinkiing of Beamer re standing up. But as he was apparently out for the count with the flu and with 0 possessions to half time then taken off never to be seen for the remainder of the game, this left a gaping black hole of leadership on the field. I just hope that it truly was the flu that kept him to zero possessions and not some other crazy plan or shinanigans amongst the leadership group, including himself. I guess we'll never know. It was left to a maturing young man in Watts along with a few supposed has beens like Bate and Dunny to fly the flag a little, albeit only for a few minutes from what i've gathered. I don't have Foxtel and was working on the day, so i've only seen about 2 minutes of lowlights so far. But i heard every excruciating moment unfold on SEN's call. Although i did see the end of Bailey's run the week before against the Hawks (the straw that broke the camel's back for me), i still never expected such a black day and what i was hearing as it unfolded. What a sad day for our club. The blackest that i've experienced in my 40 years of following them.

Agree. Extremely well spoken and said. I just wish one of our leaders (Green ) had of said something similar at half time. Like ... "Boys, if you don't step up to the plate and give me and this club everything you got ..... then it's me and all of you tomorrow in the ring! I'll be challenging and taking on on anyone who i see shirking a contest or not giving there all out there for this second half!". I realise this sort of stuff is pre-historic and frowned upon in today's game, but we sure needed someone to do something drastic that's for sure. Having said that, i think Gary involving himself finally is at least something positive in the short term. But that's all it is apparently as he's only saying he'll commit up to the start of next season, no further. My worry would be who fills his shoes/role, whatever that might be, afterwards. Personally i think Gary needs to commit for a longer term if we're to sort out the 'culture' problem within this club and set it on the right track for decades to come. It's that big a task. A 6 month stint (or thereabouts) just wont cut it IMO.