Curry & Beer

oh great personal attacks for no reason who said anything about accepting it? what i'm not going to do is sit around having a cry about it and say how much poo we are in you lot talk about the team lacking heart and spine and look at this thread, it's about little girls crying and it seems like some of the ones posting have personal experience in that area tell your kids that life isn't always fair, and that over it's journey you are going to experience some hard times... when this happens you keep your chin up and keep fighting, you don't sit down in the corner and sook

so unfair to throw him in. Never in his time at Melbourne has he played with anything but 100% guts and always gone in for his mates. He may not have been on the spot to exemplify this at any stage in the previous match but don't act like he hasn't done so before now

because it is still only his 13th game and some coaches see the value in kids playing on a star of the comp to try and learn something

one guy probably did it

well then you missed MY point in the OP as i stated in no uncertain terms "for this to work other options need to be pursued in big guys that they can rove off, i'm thinking 2 or 3 of Jamar, Martin, Newton, Rivers and Garland to join Miller and give us something to kick to. Four big guys in there and two crumbers." I mean, how can anyone be disagreeing with me, surely nobody could suggest the current setup, which appear to be Bate, Miller and etterd with no crumbers is a strategy that should be persisted with. If you have a better idea than what I have suggested then let's hear it

yes because if Trengove plays in the forward pocket now he will lose the ability to ever play midfield again I am on board with the 'long term view' philosophy, it may end being a pile of rubbish that Bailey has sold us, but I am on board with it. However, the importance of the side at least showing something, anything at this point cannot be understated. Given IMO our single biggest problem is the fact our forwardline is a complete shambles, i think it is perfectly reasonable to suggest this talented kid goes down there

what? given there is nobody there the suggestion to put someone there is a bad one. right. leave it empty then it is working a treat. why in God's name? how about having somebody with a bit of brains and polish to be around the loose ball to try and get a GOAL if you haven't noticed, not many players at other clubs start their careers on the ball regardless of where they were drafted, he doesn't 'need' to do anything in his 2nd game, we 'need' someone to play a small forward role. It's called an apprenticeship, and you will notice in most cases the good clubs do it to their young players. Given Maric has shown nothing and Ozzie and Jetta are injured we don't have many other choices besides the aforementioned Davey. Have I gone to another planet, because on Earth it is generally considered a good idea to have Key forwards with crummers at their feet if you want to kick a score

I'm still backing us for 8

yes and he will bring Scott Pendlebury with him as we all know people from the power sides are just falling over themselves to come to us

That might be true but the facts are that a)his services are more urgently needed right now as a forward and b)he is doing stuff all in his HBF role at the moment anyway

correct, he definitely didn't play the role I described, which was evident by the fact that just about every single time we went forward and the ball went to ground (which was nearly every time) there were never any smalls around and it came straight back out. Little guys inside 50 are supposed to sit front and center of the contest and try to create a sneaky goal. It happens in every side in the country, why aren't we doing it?

Aaron Davey has to return to 2006 and become FP again. There were times where his presence up forward changed the momentum of matches from spectacular plays and making something out of nothing. well now we have nothing and we need to make something. He is instructed to never stray far from 50 and to be at the point where spillages occur at all times possible. We know his defensive pressure is excellent and thus will also help reduce the ease with which we are being counter-attacked. I know he is now seen as HBF/Winger but the fact is we are hurting up forward the most and we need a spark. Furthermore I want to see Maric or Trengove in there playing a similar role - for this to work other options need to be pursued in big guys that they can rove off, i'm thinking 2 or 3 of Jamar, Martin, Newton, Rivers and Garland to join Miller and give us something to kick to. Four big guys in there and two crumbers.

It's hard to believe we have PJ Martin Meesen Spencer Gawn Fitzpatrick and precisely none of them look anywhere near becoming a decent ruckman any time soon

boo hoo we are not the first side to sit at the bottom of the ladder for a number of years and we won't be the last

Talk about a baptism of fire, first game up playing back pocket in a side getting absolutely demolished. No way he should be dropped.

so you just gave up? is that the attitude you want the players and the club to adopt?

That's the third time someone has falsely claimed this You'd want to actually watch what is going on

It all depends.. the scenrio that 4jacks is talking about depends on us being able to have a functional system where JW is leading out from the square, not sitting under a rainmaker in a pack of blokes. You are right, if it is a pack situation he'll be smashed, but 4jacks is right that if it is a lead-up situation he very well may go alright. You would have to assume that the long term vision is something like the 4jacks proposal, but the problem is right now our kids are having trouble getting the system to work to the point that the ball is in the hands of somebody decent, with enough space to spot up the lead and kick inside 50. Obviously the idea is that the likes of Grimes, Blease, Morton etc will be hitting Watts on the [censored] for the next decade but it's going to take some time. The problem is we need to do something NOW, it is very bad for the club to go on getting embarrassed like this. Newton and Watts both need to come in, and somebody else needs to go up forward, maybe Rivers or Garland. Leave Miller in just so we now have a situation where JW is one of 4 big targets inside 50, that way he won't be demanding all the attention. The other two forwards need to be our best crumbers, say Maric, Jetta, Ozzie or even sacrifice Davey. We know what he can do with the loose ball inside 50 and that is where we are really hurting right now. I could see Trengove in this role also, he is smart and clean and would find opportunities. These blokes are instructed to do what little blokes from the under-9s upwards are instructed to do which is be at the feet of the big marking contests and try to turn crumbs into goals. There is absolutely NONE of that happening now. I cannot understand why Bailey refuses to create a lineup like this when it is so clear we have no forwardline whatsoever. Jetta/Ozzie/Davey Garland/Rivers Miller Watts Newton Trengove/Maric Their best defenders are going to go to Garland/Rivers and Miller (if they don't well maybe these blokes will have day out), leaving Newton and Watts some freedom to do something. Tell the smalls their only job is to stay in or around 50 and create something from the spillages. At least this way we have a figthing chance of actually scoring when the midfield does actually come together to get a forward entry urgh

Exactly right, it is YOU, spirit of Barassi, who needs to harden up, YOU are the one whinging like a kid who just dropped his ice cream. We are the wooden spoon side, we got spanked again by the Hawks. We are a long way back. Some of you seem to revelling in this which is just bizarre

The way I see it, the list of players that have now been in the system long enough for me to conclude they are just not up to it and should be axed reads: Miller, P.Johnson, Bell, Meesen, Martin, Hughes, Newton, Dunn, Bartram It is interesting to note only 2 of these blokes got a run yesterday and if it wasn't for the injuries perhaps neither would have been there. That indicates that these players are not the ones who are losing us games, and their removal from the list will not really accomplish anything. Furthermore, we can't axe them all, and even if we could, we would just be replacing them with some very average teenage draft picks which will do us no favours at all.

First of all, about 50% of our list has arrived at the club at the the same time or after Bailey did. So the question is moot on those players, not only because they are too young to be judged yet but because they can't be compared to how they played under Danners. In any case, most of these guys have started their careers rather well in Jurrah, Morton, Grimes, Trengove, Scully. For the 20-odd players Bailey has drafted we are doing quite well really with the way they have started Also, Macca/Bruce/Green are nearing the end, surely there is no expectation for Bailey to have got anything more out of these players So you are left with about 20 players to whom the question applies HAVE IMPROVED: Jamar, Warnock, Sylvia, Petterd, Frawley, Moloney AROUND THE SAME: Davey, Miller, Meesen, Newton, Dunn, Bate, Jones, Garland GONE BACKWARDS: PJ, Rivers, Bell, Bartram, Wonaeamirri Now ask yourself this - how many of those blokes that have not improved are actually just spuds for which you would not reasonably expect any coach to get something extra out of? I would say most of them... Miller, Dunn and Newton for example, how could anyone hold Bailey responsible for these guys not improving they are just not up to it and never were

Yeah 10 picks after Strauss, what the heck does that have to do with anything?

Agree with your post, except this bit. As mentioned in another thread, MacDonald, Rivers, Warnock they all went to Strauss and told him to keep his chin up after that happened

seems to be the standard line when he plays up the ground and has some classy touches

you can't ever take that attitude if even a minor percentage of our 'supporters' share your philosophy we will get even more dismal crowds and they will simply shut us down. Don't give them an excuse.