DeeSpencer

Dan Butler from Richmond is the most logical target. Papley and Tippa are likely out of the price range but I’m sure we asked the question. If not those guys then I have more confidence in Lockhart as one option who can win the ball and use it pretty well. Isn’t a goal sneak or a great inside 50 tackler but he brings a fair bit to the table. And I want to see more of Chandler who has consistently good tackle numbers at Casey and some smarts. Small forwards are risk/reward draft picks. Unless you can get a great one then just keep picking them with later picks and develop them up. I’d rather use a list spot on bringing in a high upside speculative kid than the hope that Garlett turns back the clock.

I assume the first line of that paragraph indicates they've signed new deals, but it also has a number of inconsistencies. Rookie draft pick, so he's only on a one year deal, but I'm pretty sure he'll get a 1 year extension.

A recent AFL.com.au article states that we are just about singing every player. https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-08-24/resign-or-let-go-your-clubs-outofcontract-players If it was up to me I'd start with delisting Jones at 9:01 Monday morning.

Hell no. A prerequisite for playing AFL football is the desire to win a contest and wear some physical pressure. Garlett's had no interest in any of that for a couple of years and is only getting slower and more brittle.

If you look back at when we really did ruin careers the most common factors were: 1. Complete lack of professionalism at the club: That seems unlikely these days even if things have wandered I still have faith that most of our playing group are professional and we have resources invested in the footy department. Plus Dunkley can see what his brother is doing, it's not like he doesn't have a guide to being a professional athlete. 2. Awful fitness and medical management: The injury management is still a concern but I think overall we have got better and that's before hiring Burgess to try to fix that up. 3. Overburdening young players with leadership and/or expectations: Dunkley is unlikely to be subjected to the Grimes/Trengove or Jack Watts treatment

Not sure about that. We had Weideman coming along slowly but well enough to dominate a final last year. Spargo also was dropped/rested at times around playing some very good games last year. This year has been a typical 2nd year blues mess. Oscar played earlier than expected but was mostly protected from doing too much damage and played about as well as his talents have to offer last year. He's played games he shouldn't have this year but that's due to injuries to the team as well as his own lack of fitness. Kaiden Brand for Hawthorn is a similar talent to Oscar and has probably played 100 VFL games and 30 senior games. He's not getting any better either. Petty's been managed pretty well for a young tall. The gave him a game last year, he wasn't up to it, bought him back and he's done well enough at both ends to suggest with the right coaching he could have a career. When you've got 15 injuries you have to throw some guys in and see how they go. It shouldn't really hamper their long term development. Dunkley's had some good moments and some not so good moments. He's playing low minutes on a wing and at half forward and I'm sure the coaches instructions are very simple - run hard, attack the contest, keep it simple with the ball.

I'll keep my thoughts about his Melbourne career elsewhere but I will say it was nice of Clarko to be at the press conference because Lewis had a long and successful career at Hawthorn.

The only reason to jump off is if you believe the club is doing something unethical or if it's a protest vote against the Board. Bartlett seems to be having a red hot dip and whilst they've made some mistakes - not just this year but in years leading up to this year - I think they are well worth sticking with. It's a crucial time to support the club because our best chance of sustained success and finally leaving the rubbish of the last decade behind us is investing in this current playing group and investing in getting a proper home base. Jump off now and you're pretty much saying you want to see the club fall back in to the awful ways of 2007-2014. I know this year has been like that but it's a one off if we snap out of it.

Dunkley. Even with a bit more angle a player with time and space running in on goal is always the better option than having to steady up after moving to his non preferred side and then having to generate momentum. An easy left hand handball puts Dunkley directly in on goal. Momentum is actually the big problem with Oliver's game right now. What's he going to do with the ball if Fritsch gives it to him in the first clip in this thread? Take a flying shot on his left, or give a handball to a player under pressure that goes nowhere. For all his brilliance Oliver's kicking lacks power and takes a big wind up with a high ball drop and he's lacking any cohesion with his fellow mids to dish the ball out to advantage. His game is really just hunting the ball with amazing ball winning skills then getting absolutely nowhere with it because all that drive to win the ball takes him out of position to be able to use it. Just as much as all our mids Oliver needs a summer of handball drills on both sides of his body under pressure. Stuff we did very well in Roos' first year or two then dropped away at since. And Clarry needs to practice all summer on shortening the big windup on his kicks and getting a 20m speering kick on both sides that he can use to get the ball clear of a pack.

Yep. It's something I'm hoping Burgess does for the club, not only get our players fit and strong but actually give the coaches and recruiters a good kick up the backside about the type of athlete it takes to play AFL football. You can't just be fit (ANB) or quick (Hunt), you need to have agility, strength and more than anything smarts. Spargo's meant to have agility and aggression, 'the most competitive player in his draft'. He came in to the system with a big set of quads and wasn't afraid to use them. Hopefully he gets that back next year and can put it to work across half forward. I still have some hope for him and hope for Lockhart with a preseason. But I'm worried we need a small defender (Jetta's replacement in time), a half back flanker (replace Jones), two wingers (replace Vanders and KK - and Stretch etc) and a crumber (Hannan) who can chase, tackle and win the ball. The current group are a mile off it. It's hardly a surprise we can't handle pressure when we don't have good pressure players on the list!

He's one week away from by some miracle getting through the season and having a chance to actually train over summer with his team mates. The pace and running problems of our midfield can easily be solved with Jack Viney if he's healthy - he'll cover the kms with work rate and has more than enough burst speed. He doesn't help the kicking skills problem but if Oliver, Harmes and Gus aren't going to use the ball better with Viney why are they going to use it better without him?

Waiting to judge his offensive game until we have something that resembles a forward line and he picks up the pace of the game with the ball. But thought his defensive game was really promising. For once we might have a small forward who understand how to pressure. The proper way to corral, pick your timing and lay a good tackle. Since I first saw him train I've liked this kids natural footy instincts. Like most small players it won't always be pretty but I think he's got a fair bit to offer.

Amen, someone paying attention. His speed and strength come at a cost and that is a poor tank, it's part of why he struggles to start the year each year. And largely why he's a full back/back pocket rather than an intercepting machine at half back - apart from the whole lack of game sense.

Bump this one in April next year when he once again looks like he's never played the game before.

If the things Mahoney and Goodwin were doing that led to 10 wins, 12 wins and then 14 wins and 2 finals last year could suddenly change to this year why exactly can't they change again to more success?

5 years of sustained improvement and a good finals showing? I don't know who Richmond got to review their footy department, I think it was Gale the CEO and the President deciding to bring Balme in and a number of assistant coach changes. But there were obviously a fair number of people - Hardwick, the fitness staff, some of the coaching group - who stayed as well.

Who do you get to do an external review? There's not many qualified experienced football people around. A former football director Jason Dunstall, maybe? Former coaches? If the club are happy with Mahoney's work over a period of time then you trust him - along with guidance from the CEO and Board and input from the other leaders of the footy department - to make the changes as required. An external review would probably only find the same problems that we can all see. Then it may or may not propose a solution of sacking Mahoney or Goodwin, both of which seem unlikely. So skip that step and get on with Mahoney and Goodwin getting in people they think will help.

Hot take: Gawn is not a very good centre square ruckman. The follow up work is so important in there and isn't his strength at all, so he stays close to the ground rather than jumping for clean hit outs. Apart from that neither Oliver nor Viney have even passable kicks on their non dominant sides (Clarry not terrible but not even good) and Viney's lost the burst to get clear. And Brayshaw's too slow to even be at some of the centre bounces. Teams are using quicker players at centre bounces to get that balance and we don't have a forward who the coaches trust to come in and do that. Petracca kind of does but he's not super quick changing directions and is another player without a left. Around the ground Gawn is more suited to winning decisive hit outs but around the ground stoppages rely on wingers, half backs and half forwards and we are clearly short on quality there.

Yeah this is bad, but it starts with the awful awful kick I think it is from Hibberd, that instead of going to Gawn as he's running towards the boundary comes in board by about 20m for no reason. Then instead of getting extra numbers at the contest sweeping through to win the ball and take it away we end up with a bunch of guys stuck in in no mans land too close. Midfield play is pretty much a series of dice rolls, knowing when you've got the ball and to take off forward. I don't blame Brayshaw for his initial movement, but to then not turn back is bad. And why at least one of the mids isn't with that collection of Pies mids (who by the way have been lazy and haven't run) is beyond me. The cherry on top is the half forwards aren't smart or quick enough to round up the mids and cover the corridor either. Pretty much it's bad coaching and it's lazy midfield group, but it's also a team making dreadful skill errors and likely trying to mix up plans to generate ball movement and scoring as well. It's crap that it's gone on all season but it's not an easy one to fix now.

Are we sure we're leaving him and it's not him leaving us? Interesting that he and Goodwin could share the coaching box for so long right next to each other and not be on the same page. I'm not against changes but we better be bringing in some good names. Goodwin losing the guy we thought was his mentor (Macca) and the guy we thought was his closest colleague at the same time worries me.

His marking is better and his short kicks now hit their targets more often not. But I worry his defensive mistakes won't improve. He's a defensive beast when tasked with a simple situation - see ball, punch ball - but when a forward can move him around he often makes bad errors.

Short term: would hate to lose him. Long term..... it's not just the mistakes with the ball that are the issue, it's the way he gets caught out of position when forced to make choices as well as some of the bad defensive errors he makes like spoiling back in to the corridor and not being able to use both hands that concern me. Will he ever be smart enough to play consistently well under pressure? But with Hibberd looking close to the end and Jetta the same, as much as needing a key defender we need him as a back pocket like he played on the weekend.

I think it lasted 4 weeks and whilst he wasn't great in the first 2 weeks in round 3 he had 8 clearances and looked very good against North and his tank and play has been stronger this year. Results don't matter for the next 2 weeks, the only concern is Salem doing so well we have to start him there next year but that seems unlikely to me. Give him a go just for something different. I'd give Harmes a go across half back and put Salem in the midfield for the last two weeks. For next year we certainly need another gun half back to take Jones' spot.

Gifting games to young players who can't consistently perform well at VFL level is how we got in this situation to begin with. Stretch and Corey Wagner can get 25-30 touches in the VFL, so let's pick Jordon who gets about 10-15? Or Chandler who I like as a little forward pocket but is good for 1 goal and 8 touches a game. Nope. I like both of those players. Let's see them in the preseason games next year after a summer of hard work, not now. Plus they might have a Casey final to play if they beat Frankston and then get lucky.

King has very little inability to think. He's the kind of idiot who gets caught drink driving in this day and age where you can get an uber in less than 3 minutes. If you are critical of a coaching move you have to lay out the pro's and cons and what did and didn't work. To simply say these 2 things didn't work because the team lost is about as stupid as it gets. Let's look at the Gawn/Grundy match up: Grundy's not only been the best ruck this year but quite possibly the best player in the comp. Asking Gawn to stick tight to him rather than drop a kick behind play or drag Grundy forward makes perfect sense. We had the long kicks covered with May, Frost and Lever, we didn't need Gawn behind the play. Could Gawn have run off Grundy more when we had the ball - yes. He did once to get a goal. But Gawn's not the best forward - he's a bad shot for goal - and we also needed Max playing the 103 minutes of game time that he did play given our lack of back up. As far as I'm concerned the 'tagging' was about keeping Gawn and Grundy together on the park and then giving Max an ability to win the contests. Max still was involved in plenty of contests, we won the clearances, all but levelled the inside 50's - 43 v 44 - and when our run and pressure was up to AFL standard we were right in the contest. When it wasn't for patches in the 2nd and 3rd we were miles off. I'd rather our coaches make moves based on us playing the footy that will win games rather than planning to be rubbish. And when we played well in patches the Gawn move made perfect sense. The Sidebottom factor: Sidebottom played most of the game as a wing and parts of it as a half forward. At both times he was left alone at stoppages, let's look at why: Wing: Melbourne made the coaching move to drop a wingman to the edge of the square to cover a half back and to then run a half back in at centre bounces. Why? Because the Pies centre square midfield is faster than ours and really dangerous from the middle. Adam Treloar - who broke the game open a couple of times in the middle quarters in transition play - was minded at stoppages by Harmes and stopped from those centre square bursting runs. Grundy: who plays like an extra midfielder was held up. Brayshaw, Viney, Petracca etc weren't punished for lack of pace or defensive effort and we won the centre clearances 8 to 5. The Eagles don't have to tag Treloar because their inside midfield set up features Yeo and Shuey who are both super quick (and Gaff, Redden etc). For them it makes more sense to sit on Sidebottom, it doesn't mean it's the case for us. Until the last 2 weeks Sidebottom has had a mediocre season for his talents, whilst Treloar has been the most prolific midfielder in the comp and is using the ball better. If Harmes plays on Sidebottom and/or if we left the front of the centre square open we've got Treloar running straight in to the Pies forward line without pressure. Could JKH, Dunkley or Corey Wagner been sent directly to Sidebottom - maybe, would they have really done the job of stopping him - almost certainly not. Half forward: Sidebottom played as the high half forward coming right up to stoppages, often leaving Jones and/or Salem back from the contest as the sweeping defenders. Something that nearly every team in the comp does. Teams rely on their wings and mids to man the half forwards and use their own half forwards to get involved at the other side. Shock horror that Sidebottom got involved more around the packs and was more dangerous than JKH, Baker, Corey Wagner etc and found room because the likes of Brayshaw, Oliver and Viney don't defend the outer ring of a clearance. Does that really mean it was a coaching mistake? Again, in the first and last quarter when our pressure and running was with the Pies it wasn't an issue. The Coaches also made an adjustment and sent Lewis to man the back of the stoppages as a half forward himself, taking the space that Sidebottom was operating in. So they did make a change during play. However that meant we were one short up forward and hindered our ability to score - that was already not great - and our ability to lock the ball in forward (which was already pretty much non existent). Salem: As above I don't really think he was the problem with Sidebottom. I think teams have put a lot of time in to him and with Jones at half back playing the sweeper role it's meant Salem has to do more defensively. It's the same problem as last year when Lewis was the main uncontested cheater at half back. Apart from that he's pretty much had about enough playing half back for a crap side after a huge first half of the year. I'm disappointed he's dropped of a little but King's pretty much called him out on something that isn't his fault and after a couple of down games. I'd certainly give him a go in the midfield just for a fresh look for the last 2 rounds but in the scheme of things it's all bit meh. I'm sorry Mr King but your peanut gallery level analysis doesn't hold up. Melbourne's coaches made a choice and an adjustment to that as well. Someone was always going to get off the chain when the pressure and running dropped away. The coaches could've made different match up choices and he could've written about Grundy and Treloar as the best Pies players.