DeeSpencer

My mistake. Wins not ladder position, I forgot that going from 2 wins to 4 wins didn't come with a step up the ladder. 4 years of ladder improvement, 5 years of wins improvements. Even if making a prelim last year was overachieving we had 10 win and 12 win seasons before that, a long way from our goal but also miles from the dark days of 4 wins or the 2 win Neeld season. Premierships are the aim, Brownlow's, Rising stars, AA's - popularity contests as much as anything most of the time. This years step back was dramatic but we won the same amount of games this year as Brisbane did last year and they are still a chance of making the grand final. It's possible to be critical about a lot of the club whilst still having some belief that we can get back to at least where we were in 16/17 if not better. I don't really buy the idea that the players aren't allowed to be positive, if they don't have belief that they'll bounce back what hope is there that it will happen?

The Members forum is a failed Collingwood idea, where Eddie would try to calm the masses. It's not a Melbourne thing. We are a bespoke club that should be centred around our history, our legacy and being small, efficient and smart. Quality over quantity. Peter Jackson seemed to understand that, he linked the club in to the city and focused on the heartland. Pert's desire for 70k members and silly things like a members forum won't get us anywhere. 2018 is done. Finished. Mistakes have been made, they are being rectified. If the administration wants to rebuild trust with the fan base then get the players back in to training in November and preach community interaction at open training sessions. Shake some hands, talk to the people who turn up. Anyone else is just hot air.

Did we or did we not improve ladder position every year for 5 years? Nothing in your post refutes what is a clear fact.

The Pies might decide with his injury history that the free agent compensation might be more worth to them, our contract could go all the way up to an end of first round pick compensation. With Stephenson and De Goey they don't really need Elliott and they could use the money and draft pick to sign a key forward (still rumours of Pies in to Jeremy Cameron) or draft some midfield replacements. Not to mention Grundy is out of contract next year and De Goey as well. Wouldn't shock me at all if there's a price point with Elliott where they have to bow out.

Or if you're spending your future free space. The worst possible result isn't being unable to afford Frost and him leaving or even trading out someone like Brayshaw. The worst possible result is locking in a bunch of cap space then being unable to match a big offer for Petracca after a breakout season next year.

A risk but a risk worth taking. If we think Gawn, Oliver, Viney, Petracca, Harmes, Gus, May, Lever, Salem, McDonald etc is the basis of a quality team just short in a few areas then we have to go all in on fixing those problems. What are the two biggest problems - lack of outside run and lack of goal kickers. Has the potential to go balls up but Elliott's a genuine forward talent on a list that is devoid of them.

It's hard to really judge these signings until after the trade period where you look and who came and went and how we are placed for depth but it is what it is I guess. I don't think he has the skills or decision making to be a regular but I guess his speed/endurance is decent and he did a couple of good things towards the end of the year.

Hawthorn would do with Frost exactly what they did with James Frawley. They'd try to have him play zone defending, probably end up moving him forward when he can't get the hang of it or keeps turning over the ball then eventually have him just sit on a man and bring the ball to ground. If he picks it up he handballs or kicks it simple and often sideways. In fact he'd probably just end up replacing Frawley at some stage in the next 24 months. I'm in the camp of keeping Frost because we don't have depth of back pockets or lock down key defenders but the idea that the Hawks are going to turn him in to star or capitalise on his pace to make him an attacking player don't seem right.

His decision making, tackling and poor aerial efforts would be found out even more on the wing. Half forward is his role, it's exactly the same role Clarkson got Scully for this year. We just weren't good enough to have that role provide value this year, but the coaches putting him straight back in multiple times this year tells me they still think it's vital. He protects the midfield by closing off the corridor and he tires out back flankers chasing him around all day. Simple development coaching on how to tackle and how to win the ball and get out of pressure with simple decision making could go a long way to fixing his greatest weaknesses.

He fumbles under pressure. He gathers and holds the ball in a kicking position and blind turns in to traffic. He slips away from tackles when he's in a vulnerable position. That's 3 things you absolutely do no want in a midfielder. What he does do well is run his backside off contest to contest, which makes him an up the ground player not an inside 50 player. What position is that most beneficial to - a half forward flanker. What position does he play - a half forward flanker. ANB doesn't need reinventing. All he needs to do is play the exact role he played in 2018 but to do it with more poise under pressure, better tackling technique and a slight but important work on forward craft when he finds himself forward. He went backwards big time this year mostly because the team went backwards and whilst I wouldn't bet on him being a long term quality player he doesn't need huge improvements to get back to a useful role player.

The turnover was one thing, but that's not what's stopping Frosty being an excellent player. Smart players with poor skills can just dial back the difficulty and be very handy. Dylan Grimes is a perfect example of the kind of ball user Frosty could be. The thing that this clip really highlights is Frost's lack of game sense. He lets Kennedy go up to the contest for a 2 on 1, not helping Hore at all, then isn't mentally quick enough to cut the angle down and tackle Petrucelle before he gets by him. Luckily he has great effort and speed to run him down but a smarter defender would've made a better play earlier.

He took a mark directly in front and kicked it further away from goal than towards it. He is what he is.

Goodwin started the year in the box before moving to the bench didn't he? And the McCarney problems. So there's coaching issues not just playing issues. Backline: No Lewis, no Jetta, no May, missing Lever for more than half the year. Midfield: We should've been better organised with Viney and Gawn here but the wings are the structural players and they were a disaster Forwards: No Melksham, Tom McDonald unable to get a kick for half the season. Coach subbed half way through the year The lack of continuity in players might have made it close to impossible for even Hodge, Hurn and Selwood to steer this years playing group around the park.

Depth is important but we have to operate from a position of belief that Steve May will get a good run at it next year and be an absolute lock at FB for at least 18 games. It's also not completely unreasonable to imagine Oscar McDonald with a preseason and consistent VFL form being a decent back up full back if needed short term. Lever should also get back to his best as an interceptor. Hore is depth for that role. But in terms of playing the 2nd key spot it's either backing in Petty, turning Tomlinson in to a key back, a miraculous Oscar recovery in to a reliable best 22 player or draft/trade. Similar with the decline of Hibberd and Jetta's injury troubles we don't have great options for back pockets. Maybe Joel Smith back to the backline or using Harmes, it's pretty skinny there. Usually I'd be in favour of trading a limited player whilst they have value and filling other holes but I just look at the way Frost can pair with May and fill 2 different spots as really valuable.

My biggest concern is the Tigers are more than likely going to win the flag putting pace in to games. Serious speed all over the park. What do we do with a 194cm wingman if the Tigers are chopping us up? The counter to that is the Tigers are using Josh Caddy on the wing now in a similar role to Mayne at Collingwood and Mitch Robinson at Brisbane. Those guys might be more nimble than Tomlinson but it's not exactly an unfair fight. A bigger body who can be a marking option on the wing seems to make sense. Those guys all bring really good tackling as well for when they are sealing the edges of stoppages or going back and being the first man back in the backline, can Tomlinson do that?

Tomlinson is an outside runner so I've got no idea what Roos is on about.

Jeepers Chip LeGrand could pull his big head in a little couldn't he. Doesn't take a genius to work out what might've happened, which is important but a job for the authorities. Not sure Spud's family needed their marriage and financial status aired in public, they've had the worst day possible already. Wasn't my cup of tea in the media but the praise from his colleagues has been overwhelming. That's a life to be proud of. RIP.

Favourites to land him according to the Age. Not sure how I feel about it. He's certainly a better wing option than just having no one. But he doesn't bring pace or great skills and more than anything he's just very nice. Chaired off Deledio so that might put to rest any rumours of ill will. Probably one of the smarter and more professional guys around. Might end up in our leadership group. Might end up at Casey.

Nothing about toughness like it's some kind of macho just go out and play through it, more about ways to make him resilient and I don't mean that with any negative connotations. It might be alternative therapies and mindfulness, it might be getting him to push his body to the limit in some other physical way that doesn't risk his head like climbing a mountain, giving him that feeling that he is strong. It might be taking a whole bunch of drugs to clear the mind, nothing like a good LSD trip! And it certainly involves a great deal of training so his confident to attack the ball in smart ways. Maybe he's just been unlucky and/or is part of a certain group of the population who concussions result in greater symptoms, but I'm off the belief that most of us are pretty similar physically. I'd be looking in to what causes these symptoms and what can be done to get ahead of them. You can't play footy without the risk of head knocks. Brayshaw's had a bunch of hits this year and last that I'm convinced would've seen him sat out for a long time when he was going through his struggles, what changed so that those no longer impact him the same way?

Not one, but he's hardly copped a bunch of significant blows that I've seen. I can't remember any kind of knock in the AFL game he played in and then there wasn't a significant blow in the VFL game. But even guys like Brayshaw and McCartin where all the knocks have been documented there's increasingly innocuous hits causing damage, the kind of head knocks that other players bounce straight up from. The easy answer is to put it down to bad luck or a physical predisposition. I'm not convinced of that. I'm not having a go at him, I'm just saying I think there's even more to consider than the physical damage. I just feel like there has to be to result in the symptoms.

Unlikely to be a popular opinion but I'm very skeptical on these concussions. Innocuous head knocks suddenly leading to symptoms months later in otherwise healthy individuals? Obviously multiple concussions as well as sub-concussive hits to the head like boxers and NFL players take I can understand, but one head knock and all of a sudden you're done for months, the body has to be more resilient than that. I think it's a poorly understood mental health issue as much as an neurological one. You start to lose confidence and belief and all of a sudden your brain is creating symptoms to avoid having to go back out there. I'm not saying it's all made up, I just think the treatment has to be holistic. One thing I'd say for sure with Kade is we better not pick him for the senior side until he's fit, strong, relishing the contests and showing he's absolutely ready and safe to play AFL footy again. Even if he flies through preseason he might do well to spend a month at Casey.

In what world is Menegola slow? He has an excellent burst of speed and power. His issues are ball use under pressure - he's very much a straight lines get it on the boot type - and durability. Had 2 excellent seasons at Geelong but he bounced off 2 AFL lists due to injuries and had an interrupted year this year. He'd be a risk. Not the sort of player you'd chase in contract.

Our backline recruiting has focused on good ball users - apart from Frosty. A healthy Jake Lever can kick well and is a great handballer, May, Oscar, Hibberd (at least in the past), Jetta, Salem all good kicks. Mids and forwards not as much although you need ball winners and good athletes in those spots. It's worth questioning the chase of Langdon because he's not a great kick but there's so few good kicking outside runners that I'm not sure it matters, better to get someone than no one. Goal kicking seemed to be a strength of ours in recent years until all of a sudden it wasn't. It's not a strength but if we get back to being able to win the ball, run both ways and create some space with our handballs I think our kicking will take a huge leap forward. The trick of Hawthorn and West Coast is how well they work to get guys clear and easy options to kick to. That's our real deficiency.

What when? Tomlinson's never had a season that I've seen that would have him anywhere near an All Aus top 100 yet alone the squad. He doesn't have near Tom Lynch's forward smarts nor the kicking. He can spot up a neat kick but to consistently hit targets in crowded 50's you need to play on quickly, manipulate the man on the mark and then hit up a target with super accurate kicking. Tomlinson can't do that. Plus we've already got a better player at doing that in Melksham. Wing, with the added bonus of being a decent back up ruck is how the Giants use him and that's how I'd use him too.

We had largely stopped that by finals last year hadn't we? When Harmes/Viney/Oliver could work 2 ways at centre bounces unlike this year when they were underdone for the first month or so. Even last year many questioned if it was actually helping us. I'd say Jennings was let go because of more of our overall structures and game plan rather than the bounces. There's a stoppage coach who's full time job it is to monitor that area of play, if we were largely undone by the 15 seconds post stoppage he'd be the first to go.