Johnny Karate

An outstanding player, who obviously had a very good football brain. In his media roles his arrogance & boofheadedness overrides his football acumen. I question his ability to communicate & motivate those of lesser ability than himself. From the outside looking in - no thanks - that's not even factoring in his off-field "errors of judgement".

Op is severely lacking #thenorthernsuburbsdontexist

Sorry. I thought my post was pretty direct in lambasting your description of Rivers & Sylvia being our "class & experience" & your opinion of it being "sheer stupidity" to even think of getting rid of them? I was pretty ignorant of your defences of Joel Mac, Dunn, Martin, Strauss & Gysberts - but then again I don't like arguing about C grade down players. I assumed the bit about Davey & Bartram was some kind of sick joke. Don't give up your day job. If you think what I posted above is some sort of 'sarcastic tantrum' I wouldn't be taking up pop psychology as a career. Harden up. FWIW - sarcastic tantrum = I didn't. Push a case for our mediocre players' retention on the list = you did. Awesome. Speaking of arguments we're not even having... Would you care to point out where I stated we should arse up to 19 players in one off season? I said by final list lodgment 2013 (15 months from now ergo 2 off seasons) for my proposed cull. If that didn't help you enough the final paragraph of my OP said "in the next TWO off seasons I foresee a potential turning over of half the list..." You did mention in your op that you saw getting rid of 19 players as too much but not over one off season. So combining your lack of comprehension skills with the fact that this is Demonland the home of the C grade player fanboi - Can you understand why my reponse to your advocacy for the retention of C graders into season 2014 might've been less than enthusiastic. You might want to express yourself more clearly in the future. So it seems you were the one jumping at shadows. I'd ask you the same question but suspect I'd already know the answer. Out of interest - are you a fan of cheesecake? Or did you deem it as an appropriate euphemism for your intellect?

You've swayed me. Lets keep them all. While we're at it we should beg Brent Moloney to come back, tell Ricky & Cooky we're sorry as well as talk James McDonald & Brad Miller out of retirement. We should also open up rookie spots for PJ, Boobs Maric & Cameron Hunter (he's bound to have put that bulk on by now). We're [censored] for a reason. We have [censored] players. I'd rather focus on building a side around the good ones than taking a hoarder's mentality of hanging on to every piece of crap that falls in to our lap in the vain hope that it'll come in handy some day. You can continue to argue the case for our B- to D grade spudleys that comprise 90% of our list but I want better players. Rivers & Sylvia are the best of that stinking lot & I won't be up in arms if they stay on at the club but doesn't it tell you something that they're the "class & experience" of a team that has won 31 of its past 141 games? Neither have been within a bull's roar of the top 50 players in the league during that time, let alone All Australian. Neither has even won the best & fairest while we've wallowed in the depths of despair. One is a small & skinny defender with limited tricks whose place in the backline has been usurped by a 19 year old Tom McDonald. The other is so frustrating that he will be 27 come next year & people will still talk of his potential when in reality he's a poor man's Alan Didak (on & off field). I yearn for the day when we're talking about Rivers/Sylvia types being handy depth rather than Dunn/Macdonald. But right now they're certainly not indispensable & nor would it be "sheer stupidity" to get rid of them if it meant we could get something good for them/develop other players of greater potential in their positions.

It's amazing. We have Clark, Frawley, Grimes, Jones & Trengove as our core. Players such as Blease, Howe, McDonald, McKenzie & Watts who could go either way & then a pile of shite. Yet there are countless tear filled threads for players such as Cook, Gysberts, Petterd et al! I weep because they're still on the list. By final list lodgment 2013 the following players will/should be gone: Bate, Bennell, Cook, Davey, Dunn, Green, Jurrah, Macdonald, Moloney & Morton. And the following players could be gone: Bartram, Davis, Gysberts, Jetta, Martin, Rivers, Strauss & Sylvia as well as possibly one of Fitzpatrick/Gawn/Spencer. Some have played some good games at the MFC & some may well go on to play some good games at other clubs. Which will upset a lot of posters. I foresee a potential turning over of half the list in the next two off seasons. It's probably a minority view around here but I can't wait.

Seemingly this thread is where facts come to die, so I don't know why I'm bothering.... 1. Ross Lyon was contracted at St Kilda for 2012 (albeit with an exit clause that allowed him to sign with Freo in Sep 2011) 2. Garry Lyon & Ross Lyon shared the same manager at the time. So effectively Gaddy would've had to have done a Ross to speak to Ross - if y'all catch my drift? Ross Lyon is a highly regarded coach in AFL circles for a more than a few reasons. His W/L record is enviable & he has a pretty strong reputation for adding steel to teams with a soft underbelly. MFC should've approached him, but to blame G Lyon is disingenuous, blame the people that made him make that call when he was hopelessly compromised. In all fairness though perhaps they saw the fact that Garry & Ross sharing the same management was an advantage. Who knows? What does it really matter now? Spiltmilk.gif For those who are genuinely interested in the ins & outs of the topic please read the 'Due Diligence' thread. I expect the hand wringers, knee jerkers & factually deficient will continue to start more garbage Weltschmertz polls & threads though.

Not really fussed over Talia - key defenders is the one area in which we're ok. He's a handy footballer, hardly the next Silvagni or Scarlett. Let's start a hindsight poll about how we should've taken Fyfe instead of Gysberts & Ball instead of Tapscott. Itd have more relevance given our midfield is still shizen.

The SEN fools were rabbiting on all Saturday afternoon about how he was yet to sign. I had to switch it off. It makes me sick how these clowns in the media are on six figure sums yet can't be arsed even getting basic facts right.

Week 1 Hawthorn Sydney Geelong West Coast Week 2 Collingwood Geelong Week 3 Hawthorn Collingwood Week 4 Hawthorn

I'm sure somebody else will pick your post apart. I would, but suspect it might be difficult for you to interpret while you're playing ostrich.

I too have no issue with Neeld but it's becoming apparent that the process to hire him was pretty flawed. It's frustrating that Ross Lyon was never an option because of Hairy Garry's media career.

Sorry I must've missed when the thread premise changed from 'where can improvement come from in 2013?' to yet another wrist slashing thread. I said "should be at least sounded out", it's ironic that you're seemingly advocating we don't even approach opp players based on a rumour in a thread title: DUE DILIGENCE. It wouldn't be earth shattering news if we weren't that attractive to potential recruits & I understand supporters being upset by that, but surely the club should be leaving no stone unturned in improving the list? If that's going to mean a few (even all) approaches are met with scorn so be it.

We have half a dozen players to build a side around. We can start with Clark, Frawley, Grimes, Howe, Jones & Trengove having fitness & career best form on their side. Blease, McDonald, McKenzie & Watts need to work hard on becoming more well rounded players, all have the raw tools to make it. Performing better at the draft table than in previous years & netting at least two of Toumpas, O'Rourke, Mayes, Wines, Stringer, Menzel, Garlett as well as Viney. Gysberts, Morton, Sylvia, Garland, Moloney, Martin & Tapscott mightn't be all be at the club next year but they are far better players than their 2012 form suggests. Todd Banfield, Greg Broughton, Nick Suban, Mitch Brown (Geel), Josh Toy, Jed Lamb, Koby Stevens & Andrew Strijk could be afforded better money & opportunity at Melbourne, all should be at least sounded out during this trade period. Securing a couple of these types will go a long way to making the MFC a better side in 2013. Then there is the pipedream of a rejuvenated Liam Jurrah playing 15-20 games. All of these factors could make us a significantly improved side in 2013, things can turn around but there is a hell of a lot of hard work to pass before then.

Forgive me if I'm not in a positive mood. For all the 'progress' we've made we were smashed in just about every key stat last night. We've won 31 of our past 141 matches, effing Fitzroy were kicked out of the competition with a better strike rate than that during their last 6 years. How many quarters do we go through barely scoring? We've had 10 top 20 picks from 2006 to 2010 & effed up 80% of them. The talented players we have are generally soft & lazy. Our hardest & hardest working players (whom always end up on the chain of handballs) couldnt hit the backside of a barn from 1 metre by hand or foot. Watching Melbourne play is like a sick joke, it looks almost as if when we have the ball we man up, when we don't we spread. We don't block, chase, tackle or intimidate opponents. Where was the support for Jones last night when that maggot Crowley was mauling him & giggling all the while? Why don't our players hunt & attack the ball? Toby Greene from GWS is about 5'5 & 30kgs dripping wet, yet he has the confidence in his own game & support from his teammates to win the ball. This team is a joke to the word 'professional' - until coach & playing group take responsibility for our current shithouse state we are effed. Given past history I won't be holding my breath. So let's save the positivity until we see some tangible results ergo not meek 60 point losses in 4 win seasons.

I've been banging on about it for a while now but we only have about 6 good players: Clark, Frawley, Grimes, Howe, Jones & Trengove. Blease & McDonald both have talent but need to work harder to overcome the flaws in their game. I couldn't care less about the rest of the failed leaders, unfulfilled talent, lazy pricks & D graders on the list. Let's add Jack Viney and 3-4 more talented kids & move on from the mess of 2012.

Knowing something would at least be a start.

Now you'll get a ridiculous amount of laughs - he's worth a chocolate teapot. People on this thread comparing him to Gibbs are wrong. On the Gibbs-Morton scale, Watts is somewhere in the middle. At least Gibbs & Morton have kicked more than 3 goals in a match before. Our last 3 number 1 picks have been Scully, Watts & Johnstone. Coupled with first round picks in the last decade including: Luke Molan, Nick Smith, Daniel Bell, Colin Sylvia, Brock McLean, Matthew Bate, Lynden Dunn, Cale Morton, Sam Blease, James Strauss, Jordan Gysberts & Lucas Cook. We'd have to be AFL recruiting's dirtiest joke.

We couldn't have had both Rioli & Dangerfield both were selected in between #4 & #14 in 2007. We could've had one, not both. That said in the drafting period 06-10 we could've had: Scott Selwood, Dylan Grimes, Tyson Goldsack, Jarod Harbrow, Liam Picken, Dayne Beams, Dustin Martin, Tom Rockliff, Michael Hurley, Jack Darling, Jack Riewoldt, Kurt Tippett, Cyril Rioli, Shane Mumford, Callan Ward, Nat Fyfe, Sam Jacobs, Luke Shuey, Lewis Jetta, Rory Sloane. The only picks I think Prendergast did well with would be Trengove (2), Howe (33) & McDonald (53). Add 4 or 5 of the 19 players above & that's the makings of a damn good side. Quality recruiting = a quality team. Nailing the top picks as well as using the PSD & rookie drafts well is what sets the good recruiters apart.

Some of you clowns amaze me. Newsflash: bar the expansion sides we are the worst side in the competition. Jones aside (& Clark for half a season), nobody has lifted their game at all this year. Nobody. By that measure nothing on the list is that 'special'. The stat about his lack of disposals made me giggle, barely any of our players average 20 or more disposals. I see Trengove as a potential Jimmy Bartel, plenty of dickwits were writing him off as too slow in his 3rd season too. He was even dropped to the VFL & mooted as potential trade bait. The kid had nothing special. 3 premierships, a Brownlow & Norm Smith, 7 years later for 'nothing special'... JT is arguably ahead of Bartel at the same stage of his career (albeit playing in a far worse team) I have high hopes he can achieve nearly half of what Bartel has by the end of it.

Good enough to be part of a really good AFL team (that can play and compete well in finals) Jones, Frawley, Trengove, Clark, Grimes, Howe Might soon be good enough... but need to develop Watts, McKenzie, Blease, McDonald, Nicholson, Tapscott, Jetta Not Good enough ... Bate, Bennell, Morton, Petterd, Green, Cook, Davey, Lawrence, Couch Not sure if they're good enough ... because I haven't seen enough of them Gysberts, Strauss, Evans, Gawn, Davis, Taggert, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Sheehan, Williams Role players Bartram, Sylvia, Dunn, Garland, Moloney, Rivers, Macdonald, Sellar, Martin, Jamar, Spencer, Bail, Magner * Jurrah would be in the first category if not for fitness/personal issues.

Fabremetrics?

Step 1. Sack Schwab because North Melbourne have a purple patch Step 2. ???? Step 3. Premiership Awesome.

The irony of tin foil hats; meant to keep the aliens out but can't keep the nonsense in.

Barrack for the Mayan prediction of the world ending on 21/12/2012, hope it was slightly off & is solely confined to purging all the evil from the MCG on Saturday. The MCG to open up & in the words of Johnny Cash: " the father hen to call his chickens home" (only a hermaphrodite chicken-devil could've spawned these dickwits). Hopefully lead by Juddy; the prodigal Son. Admittedly the TAB are giving out extremely long odds on this happening but it's all relative (pun intended when talking about Carlton & Essendon supporters), the odds for this occurrence would be far longer at any other clash! So, yeah, barrack for that.

1. Clark 2. Jones 3. Frawley 4. Howe 5. Grimes 6. Trengove 7. T McDonald 8. Rivers 9. Jamar 10. Jurrah