Johnny Karate

Before the latest round of the Cloke saga kicked off there were rumours we were interested in Quentin Lynch as a free agent. Obviously Neeld wants two gorilla forwards & probably doesn't rate Watts, Martin, Fitzpatrick or Cooks prospects of fulfilling that CHF role - at least in the short term. He's recruited other big bodied players like Sellar & Williams. Jesse Hogan is a KPF prospect in the mini draft but the cost may be to high for MN's liking. Q-Ball is a tad old for mine, Cloke is the priority but there isn't much else out there that would come easily IMO. We wouldn't have to give up much for guys like Jesse White or Aaron Cornelius but then we may not be getting much. We could go to the state leagues for a Beau Wilkes type or try to fast track Williams next season & develop from within. Getting CHF right in the long term is key for the club. Small forwards are more pressing though; Matt Campbell from North is one we should enquire about IMO or again we could draft some quality out of the state leagues like St Kilda did with Saad & Milera or we did with Davey in 2003. Improved ground level presence and pressure will stop us going for 40 minutes of game time without scoring.

Context and trying to narrow down the terms is key. Some will respond no to your first question because they might label this 'match fixing' or 'throwing'. Some will answer no because they believe the players always try & tanking is more likely decisions made by top brass. FWIW this is my rationale for my responses: I think tanking involves players deliberately putting in not enough effort, in tennis, when a set is borderline lost the playing will conserve energy & focus on the next set ergo it is possible that a group of footballers getting caned may not go as hard at the end of a game. This is where I believe the term originally came from. I think playing players in foreign positions isn't tanking in all contexts - I don't believe Neeld trying Garland & Rivers forward is tanking, just as Collingwood aren't tanking with Chris Tarrant. However Warnock & Frawley up forward against Richmond in 09 was a little smelly. I think sending players away for season ending surgeries is a bit similar to point 1. You're getting smashed so what's the point of risking future life & limb for a futile cause? I don't see how it is tanking in isolation but it could be contextually applied as part of a wider tanking strategy. Delisting experienced players & opting for youth is rebuilding not tanking. Although the W/L outcomes are similar. If there was an orchestrated plot by players to throw games or manipulate results, the AFL should come down on them like a ton of bricks. I think the MFC's approach to gaining a PP in 09 was multifaceted. The AFL will find it hard to prosecute unless there is hard evidence from a reliable source that DB was to rest players, play them out of position, play youth ahead of experience in a large conspiracy to attain a priority pick. If there were directives from top brass to specifically do these things as well as bench players who were running "hot" & such evidence comes to light we are in deep [censored]. For now there's yet to be a smoking gun. Brock & Gardner's, Dennis Denuto style "it was the vibe, it's Mabo" cannot do us in.

There should be a like x 1 million button for posts like these.

1. No high horse here. The point I was making is that if the entire world were a tactless stream of consciousness would it really be that refreshing? 2. Yes, hence Gardner was a dial-a-quote - thanks for arguing my own point. 3. How can something be be different yet similar. Did 'I am Sam' become a new religion? Finally, keyboard warrior eh? I'll play along. Say hi to Miranda for me, Orlando!

It's not the same as McLean. McLean was on a football program & answered a pointed question about his career in an honest (yet tactless) fashion. Gardner was a dial-a-quote & as an ad-man he would've known it. McLean is a nuffie who didn't think things through, Gardner's approach had far more malice about it. As for those finding this openess refreshing, I suggest when next posed the question from a significant other "Does my bum look big in this?" - respond with refreshing honesty & see how far that gets you. Unfortunately the real world doesn't operate on openess, honesty, sunshine & farts.

So my other great sporting passion in life is Rangers FC. Tims' fans need not troll, I don't believe in that sectarian bollocks nor does my father who grew up in a very orange neighborhood of Glasgow. We aren't skinheads who chant bigoted slogans & go round giving Glasgow smiles & kisses to anybody who's not Aryan. Just as most Celtic fans aren't IRA worshipping terrorists. But I digress: Rangers are the most succesfull team in Scotland & date back to 1872. While the league is pathetic now, it hasnt always been & we've been winning trophies since Noah was a boy. The Old Firm Derby is still recognized as one of the great contests in WORLD sport. Anyhoo, because of the financial wheelings & dealings of a few Rangers ended up in crippling debt & with a large tax bill, subsequently liquidated, managed just to get a Newco up and sent packing to Scottish Div 3. The point of this indulgence? While numpties who support other clubs may rejoice because the" Huns" are no more or cry "Karma" - the real perpetrators in this were owners who fleeced thousands of paid up Rangers supporters. They who overpaid broken down hacks, they who were happy with the status of being Rangers (title x), they who cheated HRMCR. But who pays when the conmen are gone? The fans, people like me & my dad who barely have a club to support anymore, who have to carry the can for supposed "cheating", when all we did was turn up en mass & support our club. I feel for Melbourne Storm fans too. MFC fans have had to bare the burden of being "merger lovers". It's the fans who get punished when the top brass at any club effs it up.

I can agree on that. However, I can't agree that by admitting to tanking & facing massive sanctions ergo making the workload required that much bloody harder for ourselves from what youve labelled a "perilous position" that we've much of a future.

Amazing. You believe (somewhat reasonably) that the club has a soft, mediocre culture. Yet want us to be punished if an official instructed the coach to tank? What difference does it make if the plan was from top brass, Dean Bailey or the cleaning lady? It was clear that bizarre moves were being made against Richmond & it was clear that we were tanking. It was a hard nosed approach aimed at giving the club the best draft position & shot at future success possible. Something that several other clubs have done successfully. If you punish the club, you punish the supporters like you & I who have sat through this garbage over the past 6 years, 30 wins from 127 effing matches! All I'm clinging to is hope, hope that we can rise from this. If we were to admit systematically tanking the sanctions would be catastrophic & remove all hope, something we the supporters don't deserve. If we were to admit tanking the only thing we would get that we would deserve is raucous laughter coming from Carlton, Collingwood, Hawthorn etc because we were such a rabble that we dropped ourselves in the [censored] and they got away with it Scott free.

You know there's a quote that timD used on this site when arguing with a nuffy the other day that will suffice for you in this situation: "you are fighting an imaginary war against an enemy that doesn't exist to prove a point you won't admit you're trying to make." FMD.

He forgot: * The amount of journalists reporting on AFL far outweighs those reporting on Australian politics. More quantity = less quality. * The journalists ready & willing to insert themselves into the headlines by editorializing news stories. * Journalists making news stories based on what they or other journalists say. * Journalists blatantly taking [censored] out of context. * Journalists reporting on the gossip of the game & not what happens on the field. Caro being AFL-drip fed the North to the Gold Coast story in 07 & then her blatant anti-Brayshaw agenda since is a fine illustration of this. * The amount of bias being inserted into the AFL commentariat - I don't even know who you are Andy Maher so I couldn't care less that you're a passionate Blue. Whatever happened to impartiality? I could go on, but it seems that Ro-Ro (hes a Bombers fan don't ya know?) has missed giving the AFL a whack for handing out so many media passes to nuffies who have NFI.

Nice get nb. I think you may've been wasting your time though. The guy is clearly a fwit with an axe to grind. If he felt so strongly about this 'poor practice' why didn't he come out with these feelings at the time rather than three years later? Did he write to the club at the time to express his concern at what he was seeing? If he was so anti-tanking when he was president why didnt he slam other clubs such as Hawthorn, Collingwood & Carlton for cheating & cry "the MFC will never, ever delibrately lose games of football"? Does he want to see the club he supports & thousands who support it punished & go through misery just because he didn't agree with an alleged past practices? He must have a mighty superiority complex if he believes the need to air his public opinion outweighs what is best for the entire MFC community. Nutbean, your letter was tactful & considerate towards his opinion while questioning his course of action over the issue. His response was glib, smug & condescending. You are class, he is not.

Deny what? Are you suggesting that our club so often lamented by you as soft undo one of the few hard-nosed decisions it has taken by getting down on all fours,spread em & admit to tanking? What are the positives in that? Being stripped of players & picks? Financial sanctions? Experienced administrators sacked? Supporters like you & me walking away when all hope for success has been removed? Relocation of matches as the AFL steps in to "assist" us? Yep I've a tonne of positives out of that scenario, what are yours?

Step away from the bong! No, & even if I did think that, I don't see how going over past mistakes helps.

Call me crazy I've never seen how one could spin having a bucket of [censored] poured on them a positive. What's positive about it? The smell, the taste, those rubber glove fetish types get their day in the sun? Gardner's ill informed ramblings were poorly timed & non-sensical. What would he know about it anyway? He claimed the players weren't trying, how any idiot could argue that is beyond me. It was a thinly veiled cheap shot at a defenseless dead man who had taken Paul's plaything away from him. Any tanking that took place on-field pales into insignificance when compared with Paul's off field tanking; his contribution to our crippling debt, hiring that [censored] McNamee as a part time CEO whose grand plan was to pay J Brown what cash we had left in 2008, his treatment of Daniher & Sheedy through his egocentric coaching process as well as giving Daniher f all money for the FD. The bloke clearly has NFI about footy & thank goodness he's no longer running the place. Thank goodness he won't be welcomed back either.

Pretty sure it was Brian Lara.

Wish I could like the OP x1000, with all the misery & Weltschmerz being peddled around in the media & on these boards it's easy to forget that we have a future. A few thoughts to go with the OP... Please note I haven't watched any junior footy this year. I like what I hear of Toumpas, Stringer, O'Rourke, Wines & of course Viney, netting any two (or more) of these guys plus having a fit Trengove & Jones in the guts goes a long way to fixing the midfield which should be our priority. That said were we to select Brodie Grundy with #3 or #4 I wouldn't be jamming the fork in the toaster. Nor would I be upset if we were to trade #3 to get Jack Martin in the mini draft. Nailing this draft will go a long way to securing our future. I firmly believe we have the bare bones of a good side in 3-5 years right now, the bases are loaded, nailing this draft will be the home run. Clark, Frawley, Jones, Trengove, Howe, Jurrah Grimes & McDonald could all be A graders. Watts, Rivers, Jamar, Moloney, Garland & Sylvia have enough class to contribute more. Bartram, McKenzie, Bail, Jetta, Martin Nicholson & Sellar are handy role players. We may even find a player or two from the largely unproven group of Evans, Blease, Gawn, Gysberts, Strauss, Tapscott, Taggert & Tynan. Things are never as good or bad as they seem. Even if my optimism is somewhat blind, there are at least 15 good players on our list. This is what Malthouse walked into at the Pies in 99: http://afl.allthestats.com/?itm=111718&inyr=1999&t1=4 Of that very young Pies list they only had Buckley, Burns, N Davis, Licuria, Lockyer, Michael, Prestigiacomo, S Rocca, A Rocca, Tarrant, Williams who were any good. 3 years later they were within a breath of a premiership. Thompson at Geelong the same year: http://afl.allthestats.com/?itm=111718&inyr=1999&t1=8 Another garbage list that was transformed into the powerhouse of the new millenium by nailing their picks in 99 & 01 When Dean Bailey took over at the club I thought of how long it took Geelong to really get their [censored] together, 8 years. In 2015 it will be 8 years since Bailey started rebuilding the club, although our path was different & the journey could be a little longer I expect us to be around the mark in 2015 regardless.

A good thing? A good thing that they'll send the club to the wall? A good thing that these noble men "love" the club so much that rather than pitch in they're adopting a scorched earth policy? You sound as though you'd be happy to see the club go under just so you could yell "I told you so!" from the rooftops. There is always room for robust debate about the direction of the MFC but not trying to tear it down from within. If there's something constructive to contribute fine but otherwise fit in or f off!

I'm not sure I agree with your assertions re. OTC. However, it is clear that the club is leaking like a sieve from within & without. Look at Carlton, they pulled the same trick & barely anyone has spoken about it, with all their political turmoil the sackings of Sheedy & Knights, nobody leaked. Either there are a disproportionate amount of loose lips at the MFC or there is a real power struggle at the club. There's not much I like about Johnny Winston Howard but his quote "disunity is death" applies very strongly to the MFC's current plight.

He was very high & mighty about it for someone whose off field tanking contributed to us being $6m in debt. Sanctimonious windbag, he even suggested the players weren't trying. [censored] off Paul you have NFI.

Well said but perhaps this is the agenda? Imagine the frenzy if we lose to Gold Coast! Seriously though, if we are to be sanctioned by the AFL for this trial by media, that will remove all the hope I have. I love the club, but if the league, media & former players & officials are hell bent on pushing us to the brink, we are destined to be an eternal basket case or fold. It's as miserable as I've felt as a Melbourne supporter & that will be the straw that broke the camel's back. I'll just follow West Coburg. The AFL, its loyal cabal of vultures & former players & officials bitter that the MFC isn't their meal ticket anymore can G&GF!

Didn't you get the memo? 31 out of 127 = winning culture. 30 out of 127 = tanking = losing culture. Ya dig?

I have no issue with the media giving us a whack - we deserve it. But I wouldn't watch On The Couch if you paid me - Iron Mike Sheahan just screams "punch me" from every orifice. "Tanking's bad mmmmmkay!". I can just see Gerard cruising around Manly in an open top convertible, white sweater casually tied around his neck as he winks and flashes his false choppers at every bit of hot totty he sees at each set of red lights. A vacuous ninny with a silver platter complex. Then there's Roosy who actually knows football but his blatant Swans bias makes him unlistenable. You know what Paul? Your bathwater may well be the nectar of the gods but just because every other club can't go out & get a "Hally" or a "Mummy" with an AFL sanctioned salary cap discount doesn't mean they all deserve to have a collective bucket of [censored] poured all over them. Three tossers of the highest order.

You shouldn't have. From the same dolt on BigFooty: London to a brick they would be the first to cry about us being a soft club if we hadn't have tanked & were still [censored]. Haters gonna hate. Whingers gonna whinge.

Melbourne supporters in Sept 07: "Bailey can get us playing finals again, he won't be the soft touch Neale was..." Melbourne supporters R1 08: "WTF!? Oh well, clearly ND & CAC have left the list in a shitful state. Time to move on the older players, blood some youth & rebuild through the draft to complement our talented youth in McLean, Bate & Dunn." Melbourne supporters in July 09: "Bailey needs to tank, his job depends on it. Scully will transform the culture of our club." Melbourne supporters R1 10: "FFS Bailey! We're not trying to lose games anymore!" Melbourne supporters R17 10: "FWGJAM. I don't see who or what can stop us becoming the next superpower now. We've timed our run perfectly, sucks to be Richmond or West Coast right now." Melbourne supporters R6 11: "Bailey has NFI. Look at his win loss record. Sack him, appoint Malthouse." Melbourne supporters Sep 11:"Ok so we didn't get MM but Neeld is the next best thing, our very own mini Mick. He's the no nonsense type that our group needs & won't be the soft touch that Bailey was." Melbourne supporters R1 12: "WTF!? Bailey & BP have left the place in a shitful state. We need to build through the draft & compliment the talented youngsters on our list. At least Neeld will give us the steely edge that was missing under that idiot DB." Melbourne supporters July 12: "I am really worried. We are worse than last year. I miss Dean. Neeld is only going to cost us members & send us further backwards." Amirite?

He's a freak who makes a mockery of statistics. The last two weeks he's probably been BOG to half time yet he's only had about 10 touches to that point. Guys like Swan bleed you out slowly, Cyril does it with a chainsaw.