Johnny Karate

Hawthorn certainly have some very damaging left footers. However, how many have Collingwood or Geelong had? I wouldn't say they've had much to do with the Pies or Cats recent dominance. Perhaps they've had something to do with Hawthorn underachieving since 2008? I'm probably taking a jocular thread too seriously but much of Melbourne's current predicament is to do with playing follow the leader. If we are to be successful we will need to be at the cutting edge of footy trends rather than copying the other kids' homework.

B: Bartram - Frawley - McDonald HB: Watts - Rivers - Grimes C: Trengove - McKenzie - Sylvia HF: Howe - Martin - Garland F: Jurrah - Clark - Green R: Jamar - Moloney - Jones

I think this stance makes sense. However, I would hope Moloney, Rivers & Green are afforded more respect as stalwarts of the club I'd hate to needlessly lose more veterans & have more bloodletting at the club for the sake of chasing rainbows. If we do make the decision to let some older players go, it should be done with tact & respect unlike the Junior scenario.

Barring the last two Olympiads the club has performed well in Olympic years. Winning the flag in 1956, 1960 & 1964 as well as finishing runners up in 1988 & 2000.

Steve Moneghetti is a Demons fan & I believe he may have pulled on the red & blue at a reserves or under19s level. I may have my wires crossed though?

Petterd has played 54 games, of them, perhaps 12 have been good & about 5 of them were in 2010 before he busted his shoulder. Maybe he just isn't that good a footballer? Flankers of his ilk are a dime a dozen.

Ben, be careful, you'll be accused of "missing the point" again. *snigger*

You're right, absolute hacks. There were clearly better players available during that stage of the draft. Looks like BP stuffed it up again.

While we're throwing wild speculation out there, I propose that Cale Morton would be top 20 in the league had he been anywhere but Melbourne. Watts would be winning the Coleman too!

I don't think it is that simplistic but I've little doubt that the club has had a culture which isn't conducive to elite performance. I can think of a number of high profile players/picks that have been known pissheads. I think the handling of some players has been poor & no doubt our sports science & fitness programs have been underfunded, however, it isn't the main factor in Morton or Watts shirking contests. It's also about the player's DNA - Judd would've been a champion anywhere. Jones has worked on his game to the point where he'll be a solid B grader, Jack Viney will stop at nothing to be the best he can be. I think it's imperative to get talent on the list but they have to want it.

My mistake, editing error as Nasher pointed out. Spencer for the win! I'll fix it now.

My thoughts on the list... In my estimation there are about 7 players currently on the list whose departure would hurt the club: Jones, Frawley, Trengove, Clark, Grimes, Tom McDonald & Howe. There are players who are very capable footballers at AFL level but where they are our core they would probably be icing on the cake or on the fringes of the better sides: Watts, Sylvia, Garland, Moloney, Jurrah, Rivers & Jamar. Then there are the following role players, who are NQR but one or two could easily be hidden in a champion team: Bartram, McKenzie, Petterd, Nicholson, J Macdonald, Sellar, Martin, Jetta, Bail, Couch, Magner & Spencer. Then there are the rookies/players who are too early to call: Gysberts, Blease, Strauss, Cook, Evans, Tapscott, Davis, Taggert, Lawrence, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Sheehan, Williams, Gawn. Some definitely need more time, particularly the talls but none scream A grader to me. Finally it's the guys who are past it/no good: Bate, Bennell, Morton, Dunn, Green & Davey. Outside the first group of 7 there isn't much to lose sleep over if they weren't at the MFC next year & beyond. An oft overlooked part of list management is the fact that it is somewhat beneficial to have a few spudleys to chop at the end of each year so you don't have to lose a couple of good players. Our list is like gold in that respect.

If that is all you got out of that entire post, I'm wasting my time. Point missed again. Say hi to Craig Turley for me! *Sigh* How is it conjecture that top picks are of high value? How is it conjecture that most stars are drafted at the pointy end (even our own Clark, Frawley & Jones were taken high in their drafts)? How is it conjecture that trading high draft picks for ok players has been proven to bite you in the bum (see West Coast v Carlton)?*Sigh* At what cost would you take Boak or Beams? I've asked this repeatedly. If it's pick 13 + a player, sure. However if it's pick 3 or 4, you'd want to hope they turn out to be stars. Neither are the best midfielders at their own clubs - are they even that much better than our own Nathan Jones who may be forced to walk or take less cash as we attract these 'proven' commodities? If we were talking about players the ilk of Chris Judd or Gary Ablett - proven stars and culture changers - I'd have no qualms about giving up top picks but to give them up for Beams or Boak wouldn't be the smartest thing to do. Giving up top picks (potential stars/good players/duds) for Beams/Boak (potential stars/good players/duds) is the equivalent of shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic & paying half a million for the honour. "Young list, no midfield, a poor recent history of player development and a team that fails to compete. We aren't Sydney who bring in players that fill holes. We need players to build around. We have a few potentials, but we need 3-4 more" Did you just argue my point for me? It sure sounded like it!

Surely you can see that there is quality towards the top end of any draft? The last gun mid we traded for was Craig Turley, by your 'history says' logic we shouldn't do that again either. We are cursed & may as well wind up the joint tomorrow then, Chicken Little. Again I ask; who of the potentially available midfielders would you trade for? Beams/Boak? They're hardly proven quantities themselves & not worth anymore than pick 13ish + a player. Their current clubs would salivate at the prospect of getting a top 5 pick for them. Not to mention the fact that plenty of other clubs that would be interested in those two would force a bidding war for their services - $500k plus for Beams/Boak & then out of contract Nathan Jones leaves because there's sweet FA for him. In 2001 Fremantle traded away pick 1 for Trent Croad, seven years later pick 1 wins the Norm Smith & Croad plays in the premiership with him - for Hawthorn. In 2002, Richmond trades it's first pick - #4 for Kane Johnson, after Carlton gets busted, #4 turns into #2 & is Daniel Wells. In 2007, Carlton trade pick 3, Josh Kennedy (#4 in 05) & 20 for Chris Judd & #36. Despite Judd's greatness the Eagles are probably closer to a flag than Carlton through shrewd recruiting rather than buying a squad. Picking up experienced players such as Warnock & McLean at the expense of recruiting hasn't worked as well as West Coast selecting the likes of Shuey, Gaff, S Selwood & Naitanui in the ND. Our friend history would indicate that drafting is probably the smarter method than trading away high picks for ok players. Blind Freddy can see that we need midfield talent. History suggests (albeit not always in the MFC's case) that the best way of procuring it is through drafting & developing your own. Proven experience is great but doesn't have to come at a huge price - look at Sydney with their recruitment of role players or even GWS bringing in older leaders on the cheap as well as giving the odd state league player a crack. Your last point is merely conjecture - time will tell.

Pavlich, N Riewoldt, Hodge, Judd, Ball, Bartel, Goddard, Wells, Deledio, Roughead, Griffen, Franklin, B Reid, M Murphy, Thomas, Pendlebury, Gibbs, Selwood, Hartlett, Naitanui, Martin, Cotchin, Rioli, Dangerfield , Kennedy (WCE) are but some of the quality players taken at the pointy end of the draft. That is what "the industry built around statistic (sic) analysis" says to me. 'Oh but the MFC effed it up in the past & therefore will eff it up in the future' - is the line of gutless spivs who buy into the 'industry' of superstition & voodoo. Indeed Mitch Clark is a great reference point but one that you miss - he was a top 10 pick. So we are to trade for two established top 10 pick worthy midfielders? Who & at what cost? Do we offer them the same kind of massive coin that Mitch Clark is on? Wouldn't it be far simpler with the age of our list, wage structure & current appeal to draft our own two top 10 worthy midfielders?

If you could guarantee that pick 4 will be another Morton, then yes. Just because we've selected poorly in the past doesn't mean we are doomed to do so forever.

Does your 'Davis 2 year rule' apply to Lucas Cook as well? Otherwise I agree with most of what you say but McKenzie's hardness & ability to blanket the opposition's best mid should keep him safe & I see no reason why he can't be our answer to Cam Ling. Our list is in a shitful state of affairs when Dunn is best defensive (ergo small) forward. Sylvia will be put up for trade IMO.

Oh really? Never knew that thanks for that info. I thought it was implied that he'd a very good season up to that point. He was averaging 2 goals & 5 marks per game playing effectively as an undersized key forward & was in career best form.

All rankings are subjective & can be interpreted in different ways. The rankings werent weighted with much regard to one player's merits v anothers. Perhaps that is flawed in some peoples' view. It's more a scale of 1 to 10 based on ability & output. Ergo good/senior players are marked harder.

Cheers od, appreciate it. In a season where we are 1-10, have been beaten twice by over a hundred points (which is worse than GC & GWS) & are wallowing down near the expansion clubs. Jones & Clark have been good. Bartram, McKenzie, Grimes, Garland, McDonald, Rivers, Howe & Magner have been ok in patches & the rest pretty much fail - it's been a very disappointing season to date.

I tend to go numerically, I don't really know why but I've always been kind of obsessed by jumper numbers. Also FWIW I've only reviewed the 33 players that have played senior football this year - for those wondering why Gysberts, Taggert etc were excluded.

Part Three: Macdonald to Magner Joel Macdonald - a jobber. Joel Mac is a pretty good negator but struggles with the ball in his hand. He has played reasonably well in his 5 games so far this season but at this stage of his career he's probably a depth player only. Scrapes into the top 10 for most average disposals in the team (pun intended). He'll probably bow out at the end of this year as a good ordinary player. Not too many players play 100 games at the highest level, he has made the most of his ability. Rating 4/10 - has played pretty well, when in the side. James Sellar - was a bit of a surprise selection in the 2011 draft. Sellar was quite underwhelming in his first few outings for the Dees. As a CHF he couldn't lead or mark & as a ruck he couldn't win hitouts. However, he appears to have found his niche as a gorilla taming backman. At 24 & boasting a 196cm, 100kg frame he is significantly bigger than other KPDs on Melbourne's list & has the potential to be a Presti/Al Nicho/Merrett 'see ball, spoil ball' type of KPD. Initially he may be a horses for courses type of player but he's shown he is good enough to play a strictly negating role. Rating 4/10 - recent outings against Collingwood & Essendon have increased his stocks. Stefan Martin - has suffered an injury cruelled year. It is bitterly disappointing as he showed great improvement in 2011. With Mitch Clark doing well as a number 2 ruck as well as Garland & Rivers seemingly having first dibs on forward line try outs, Martin will not walk back into the team. He is a player with plenty to offer so hopefully he can find his way back into the line up before the season is out. Rating: 1/10 - hard to judge on 1.5 games but his form wasn't great. Luke Tapscott - love his aggression. But he really needs to get his hands on the ball more to utilize his raking boot. Averaging 10 disposals a game just won't cut it & he needs a clearly defined role in the team. The backline is over crowded (although Bartram's role is a possibility), he lacks the pace to play midfield & seemingly the endurance to play forward. He does play with a lot of spirit, which is what the side needs. Hopefully he can find some form upon his return from suspension. Rating: 3/10 - has a crack but just isn't quite there at the moment. Aaron Davey - see Green. Davey's pace has faded in recent years which has really limited him as a player. When he has played he is trying but his body just won't follow. The lack of pace means he can't repeatedly chase down opposition defenders when he was a young whippet, nor be the line busting quarterback he was in 2009 nor swoop on spilled crumbs in the forwardline as he can't accelerate to the fall of a contest. The lack of pace has further exacerbated omnipresent problems in his game such as commitment to ground and aerial one-on-one contests, he used to be able to use his pace to stack the odds in his favor but now he shirks the genuine 50/50's. Like Green, Davey has been a wonderful servant of the club & should be acknowledged as such despite recent form. His leadership with the club's other Aboriginal players has been invaluable & he should be congratulated for it. Again like Green, he will probably be in & out of the side for the remainder of 2012 & whatever else is left of his career. Rating: 3/10 - better than 2011 but his body looks shot. Jeremy Howe - has added another string to his bow in 2012 playing through the midfield. Howe's aerial theatrics have been as impressive as ever in 2012 following his promising debut season. His work through the middle as a link player has also been good. However, his set shot kicking has left a lot to be desired which has been a blot on an otherwise good season. With increased experience & endurance Howe could develop into the player Colin Sylvia should've been, maybe even better. Hopefully Neeld continues to give Howe & others a chance through the midfield because the old Melbourne midfield setup was B grade at best, D4 Ammos at worst. Rating: 6/10 - a good season but some of his set shot misses have been laughable. Mark Jamar - a bit of a worry. Jamar hasn't had the greatest year & his weaknesses are being further exposed as his body wearies. He has no real competition for the number 1 ruck spot, which is a greater problem for the club than Jamar with the ink fresh on his new 3 year deal. He wins a lot of hitouts but so few go to advantage which is chicken or the egg? Is it Jamar's fault for not hitting it to the midfielders? Or - is it the midfielders fault for not capitalizing on the Russian's good work? Jamar has never been a high disposal getter but his ability to get to contests, provide an out, be a link, clunk marks & kick goals are almost non-existent in 2012. It is good that he showed faith by sticking with the club but he still owes more than his current output. Rating: 3/10 - a pretty poor year from the Russian. You tend to expect more from an AA ruckman. Rohan Bail - at the crossroads. Bail has been cursed with injury since arriving with the club. Every time he seems to be getting some momentum into his game he gets injured. 2012 has been no exception. Bail has good pace, is strong over the ball & at the contest but his kicking often lets him down. He does have an opportunity, with an injury free run, to claim Clint Batram's spot in the backline. He will need to lift his disposal but it isn't an insurmountable task. If the injuries & errant kicks persist though, he's not long for this world. Rating: 3/10 - some really poor games early & then not getting any continuity of form through injury has cost Bail. Josh Tynan - was a bit stiff to be dropped after round 1. Injury in the VFL also halted his season & he has been unable to add to his solitary game for the club. If he can overcome injury woes & find form at Casey, Tynan is another who could vie for Bartram's spot. Rating: NA - I can't assess player based on one game in a collectively [censored] effort. FWIW I give the whole team zero for round 1. Jack Fitzpatrick - another who has only played one game. Fitzy had a stinker against the Hawks (he wasn't on his Pat Malone there) & still looks a gangly beanpole. He needs a few more pre seasons under his belt & kgs added to his frame if he is to become a player. His recent diagnosis of diabetes could help him & the club in better understanding what his body needs. Rating: NA - again it's hard to judge off one game in a horror team effort. James Magner - Mitsubishi started like a house on fire. Hard over the ball, Magner has impressed with his strong frame & clearance work. More recently his role in the team has changed with Howe & Grimes getting more centre square action. Magner has been used as a tagger/defensive forward, his overhead marking is good for a guy his height. His disposal & general class may mean that he isn't a very long term prospect beyond 2012 but for now he is very low on the list of worries for the Melbourne Football Club. Rating: 6/10 - started well but has tailed off in recent weeks. Would probably be top 6 in the B&F at this stage.

I like Morton as a player & certainly wasn't one of those thousands of idiots who jeered him off the ground on QB. I think a lot of it with him is confidence; his terror with the thought of making mistakes becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. It causes him to make the howlers which cost goals & his dithering when deciding to commit fully to a contest. He has been dropped on at least one occasion this year. As previously mentioned I'd like him to show a bit more determination, QB was a bit better in those stakes. I think he'll be a good player for this club & wish him well but I struggle to give him a pass to date in 2012. As for Sylvia, I am guilty for marking him harshly - he is after all a senior player. I acknowledge his interrupted pre season doesn't help but his attitude stinks, I've no doubt he was dropped after the Sydney game for it. Jack Trengove is similarly hindered by his body at the moment & having a disappointing year but he still cracks in. I'd have no issue with Sylvia if he wasn't a senior player & if getting smashed every week didn't seem like such a lark to him.

I was referring more to the wrist/ankle collision injuries being out of his control. Re. The incident - he has plead not guilty, the courts will decide but I think it's apples & oranges compared to the other players you've mentioned.

While he's had a very good year I feel that Jones gets slightly overrated because of the lackluster nature of the rest of the midfield. He's been good, don't get me wrong but it's hard to say a midfielder averaging 23 disposals in this day & age is having a near perfect year. I feel Clark shades him marginally & would be just about in the top 3 KPFs in the comp on form. Jones would struggle to be in the top 20 Mids in the AFL.