grazman

I think you're trying to shove a square peg into a round hole... Opportunity isn't about where you're team finishes, it's about the chance you get to play senior footy and no small part of that is the money you make from doing it. You may well disagree with my assertion that Carlton's depth is worse than ours, but which of the following don't you agree with: 1. CJ wasn't highly valued by the FD, hence he was offered up twice for trade. 2. He's actually not that good a player, hence no one actually offered us enough to trade for him. 3. He was offered two years by us and chose to go to the PSD for an offer from Carlton, hence they're offering him more money. Warnock and Prismall are inconsequential to the argument, they chose to go elsewhere for far more money than we were prepared to pay for them. It's got nothing to do with perception and everything to do with making a living. You may as well raise Chris Judd, tell me that money had nothing to do with his decision.

Clearly you're a thinking man and clearly those whose job it is to do such deals aren't the lateral thinker you are - or maybe, just maybe - all options were explored and Carlton (which has zero depth) knew it wouldn't have to give up anything to get CJ because no other club wanted him!

It shouldn't be dismissed at all, but it's important to keep it in perspective. It's disappointing we weren't able to get some sort of compensation for CJ in the form of a trade in the last two years, but that in itself should be instructive as to his perceived value. The club was interested in both Warnock and Prismall (as were others), but they went elsewhere, I'd hazard a guess that the other clubs wanted them more by offering them more money - substantially more money in the case of Warnock I think. CJ was initially offered a one year deal and in an effort to keep him that was extended to two years. He decided to go. How much the contract was worth is purely speculative, but I think it's pretty logical to assume that he left us for more money. I don't see that as having anything to do with the love of the club. Clearly in the eyes of many supporters he was judged to be in that NQR range, a view shared by the club given they offered him up for trade in consecutive years. There's been many criticisms of the club and how it goes about recontracting it's players. We didn't pay over the odds for CJ just to keep him at the club - clearly like Prismall, Warnock and those that requested to be traded from Hawthorn this year he saw more opportunities elsewhere (not surprising given Carlton's lack of depth). It isn't about loving the jumper, it's about earning a living, players of this ilk have to make hay while the sun shines. I'd be more concerned if we lost a top ten B&F due to the fact that we were overpaying fringe players. I'm not particularly upset about losing CJ, and how genuine the two year offer was is debatable (they'd have a fair idea from his manager what other offers had been put on the table). He's had enough opportunities to show that if he was going to be a gun he'd already be there. He's a nice kick (beautiful kicking action), but not necessarily a good one (I was disappointed this year with how many times he failed to hit targets even under minimal pressure). People will disagree, but it's one less NQR on our list, it might hurt our depth a little, but it does create another opportunity.

ABSOLUTELY!

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...5012432,00.html

That's the most significant line in the whole article. I don't care if he plays for Toolybuc. He's gorn... and good riddance.

We re-signed Juice for another couple of years, that's enough of a full time project for the Footy Dept to work on without young Tom. (and I'm not suggesting they have similar problems beyond the very broad brush of 'attitude') It'll be interesting to see where Newton and Hislop are in two years time.

Yes it was a gratuitous put down, but hey it's the media and it was of our own making. We were the ones that advertised we thought the money he was asking for was reasonable, but it was doubtful that we could afford him.

JJC I think you'll find most of the action happening over on the draft/trade forum. As for the actual topic of conversation, I've nothing to add, other than I'd be extremely grateful for any largesse the ex-player in question threw our way.

Oh the pain! Let's not go there.

I'll have to look up my galactic manual of omnipotence, but if you think you can get more than a 6th round draft pick for either of them, then you should submit your CV to the club for consideration. Apologies for the sarcasm, but I'm really dumbfounded every year by the number of supporters that believe they can swing deals based on pure fantasy as opposed to the hard cold facts. Both White and Yze are over thirty, if they've been delisted before the draft period it's for a reason. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Thanks. A good honest player, seems to have fallen out with Laidley (anyone left at Arden St that hasn't), but too old for us. If he's going to Port, It'll be Harris and loose change for Thomson.

Sydney making room for Daniel Kerr. West Coast making room for two extra first round picks. I suspect that O'Keefe would be headed to the Dogs, but if he goes to the Blues he'll no doubt be given the very demanding job of a Visy spokesman on youth homelessness on the streets of South Yarra or some such crap. Robbie Warnock's already got the position of looking after lost Bunny rabbits and kittens.

I don't want Boyle and I don't want Clarke, but if they really want Carroll they can have him

Junior is my choice as well, but I think you're wrong about Brock. He matured a lot this year, and taken a lot of on-field responsibility, he should be captain when Junior retires.

Not meaning to be picky, but we played in seven in a row as well. 54-60. and yep that get's my vote.

I agree. Johnson and Bartel should've been moved forward at the start of the last quarter to isolate themselves in the forward fifty. Neither Ottens or Mooney was working for them and Varcoe and Stokes were a liability. Rushing behinds ensured that Hawthorn kept control of the ball and may have added to Geelong's mental torture in being able to steer one through the big sticks.

I would've traded him.

Mate, I'd have to say that is one of the more intelligent and well thought out suggestions I've read in relation to trading for a while. Though I don't think there's a chance in hell we would get pick 6 for Matty Warnock and Pick 17, particularly because once it's on the table to Dockers are going to want it. I think the other side to pencil in here is North. Laidley is a strange fish. He's intimated heavily that North have to readjust their list to go further. He's probably only got one maybe two years left to deliver some chocolates and has the hot breath of Dennis Pagan breathing down his neck. I think they'll trade heavily for immediate returns and their first pick may not necessarily be off limits. I'd love another first round pick and like you I'm happy to hold onto any players the club thinks it needs, but we can't live in fantasy land. Trade time will be interesting, particularly because the Saints have expressed interest in the likes of CJ, and White before (their second pick maybe?) - there's also always been muted suggestions in relation to Jimmy Frawley because of the family connections.

Next year is compromised in that GC17 have access to a number of 17 Y.Os in the QLD U18 team only.

I knew I missed someone, at least someone got 'it'.

You obviously weren't posting on the forum last year when it went down into meltdown with people that thought it was the end of the club... it's marvellous what one little word does to change people's perceptions (it's called hindsight). This time every year people who have to take none of the responsibility and have none of the available information claim that the club's problems can be solved by trading players X, Y and Z for picks 5, 6, and 7. It is a forum after all and it's what it's for, it's called the bravery of being out of range.

After watching the GF today and bemoaning another Hawthorn premiership... err Tassie premiership. I was despondent at the thought that this could be Carlton in a couple of years. I went to the footy record to try and make some sense out of how the Hawks had managed to assemble a premiership in the few short years since we had tumbled from pretenders to not-even-in-the-same-postcode! There's a danger in over-analysing something like this and probably a bigger danger in trying to emulate a system you can't possibly implement. From today's team Hawthorn have 12 listed players as first round draft picks of which ten played today. (the two who didn't were Muston and Thorp) They had five rookie listed players who also played today. Their two ruckman who I thought were more than serviceable were a rookie and second round pick - underlining why you probably shouldn't use pick one on a ruckman and casts a shadow over swapping an early pick for Warnock. I'm not really that big on number crunching - but that's obviously a fair proportion of their team that are first round picks (much higher than say the Swans or Eagles had in their premiership years) When I look at where we're heading I count ten listed first round picks. McLean, Sylvia, Morton, Grimes, Jones, Bate, Dunn, Bell, Frawley and Meesen. Obviously there's some problems there and the list should be shorter. I suspect that some teams will follow suit. West Coast have seven first round draftees, and I think they'll add another three this year. I think they'll trade Kerr to Sydney for their first pick and the Dogs first pick (for O'Keefe) I expect they'll also try and offload Hansen and a couple of others for early picks. I also suspect with trading Kerr that a priority pick for 09 is on the cards. It's tempting to think that with a little luck we could be ready to challenge again in a two or three years, but to win a premiership you need to be realistic, we need to get more class and hardness into our side. Everytime I watch a grand final it emphasises that courage never goes out of fashion. That's why I wouldn't trade McLean, Jones, Sylvia, Rivers or Green.

Nope it was Fergs who didn't want to go.

Pick 1 and a player maybe. I doubt that many clubs would be into it. Few drafts are equal. Hawthorn has been extremely lucky. One year later and rather than a choice of Hodge, Ball or Judd in 01 they've got a choice of Goddard, Wells or Brennan. Instead of Roughead and Franklin in 04 they could've been selecting from the 03 or 05 draft... They were fortunate.