deanox

Sorry, I wasn't saying we had said that. I was saying it's why we might be happy to do so. We could drive a real hard bargain based on 2 year contract and get nowhere. If we were demanding more than anyone would offer, then this wouldnt be public. So it is possible that we decided to accept a more reasonable compensation to make sure he moves, so that we can improve our overall list position. If Preuss leaving for a slightly lower pick than we think he is worth allows us to improve ourlist position overall, then why would we play hardball on principal and miss out?

Agree with this. You can get players through the draft, through trading or FA. Draft probably represents best chance of value: could get a bargain, but its riskier and takes time to develop. Trading is the lowest risk but there are limited resources we can use on trading and it is the most expensive (players are developed so more confidence in what you are getting). FA allows you to get good players for no resource (other than cap and list space, which we need to use and fill up anyway). In our situation plugging a few gaps for 2-3 years while developing younger players from the draft allows us to accelerate our improvement short term.

I think we are saying the same thing but imo it is the tone/connotation which are different. You seemed to imply derisively that he was choosing short term success for a selfish reason and that it is not the best decision for the club. I disagree and think that you are playing both sides: if he trades/drafts for finals you will say it "was to save himself" but if doesn't make finals you'll be one of the first to say he needs to be sacked. Am I correct?

Both have had injuries this year and struggled to find rhythm. It cant have been an easy year when out of form. I don't think either are to blame, but the quesrion is "who is more likely to hit form in 2021? I think that Brown (kicking 32, 41, 63, 61, and 64 goals in the 5 seasons before 2020) has a more consistent body of work behind him than TMac (one season above 23 goals) who although he has had periods of top flight football, it has been in patches and in different positions. Ben had an average 2020 (injuries and personal reasons). Tmac had an average 2020 (also injuries) but also a poor 2019, so has been out of form longer. Based on that, one could assume Brown is more likely to regain form, than TMac who has been in the wilderness for a couple of years now. TMac has always been a chaos player and he gets bogged down in structures which is why he gets thrown on the wing every now and then for a bit of freedom. Unfortunately chaos and freedom isnt a great way to find form at the top level, where even if you aren't in form, you need to find a way to do the basics and play your role. It seems Brown may have had a falling out with the coaching staff around their response in a difficult personal time (documented elsewhere). So it also could be that for both players, a fresh start, new environment, new coach, new game plan, will reinvigorate form.

Again. Why wouldn't that be the goal? We have a publicly stated aim of finals and a premiership in the next 3 years. We have Hibberd and Jetta aged 31, Melksham, Gawn and May aged 29. (We spent up on May for the purpose of finals) We have a core of players between 23 and 27, including 11 who will have played 100 games next year. It includes 3 of the better mids in the comp. Why wouldn't we be planning for finals next year? Do you really think he should reduce our chance of finals in the next 2-3 years in order to be more competitive in 5 years? His job IS to make finals the next couple of years and win a flag. Not to set us up for 2026.

I love trade time. I imagine Mahoney walking in to the Telstra Dome, calling a bunch of the over managers into a room together and announcing: "A bit of a long one but bear with me here everyone..."

Well he should be recruiting to play finals in 2021. I'd be more concerned if a) he wasn't trying to play finals in 2021 and/or b) we were going to the draft this year with a view to rebuilding for 2025. What are you expecting him to be aiming for?

This may be why we are happy to move Preuss on for relatively little, instead of driving a bargain. It becomes Preuss + 40 for Polac + 39 + the salary.

I understand the constitution includes an objective to maintain a team of footballers that compete in the AFL and any other competition as deemed relevant by the directors. To me the word compete implies trying to win matches. If winning was part of it, the constitution could instead state our objective was to simply "field" a side. I do think its fair to say that our objective is not to win matches, but it is to attempt to win them. That is probably semantics, but you started it!

That's not quite true. We are members, which is effectively the NFP/imcorporated associations version of shareholders. In a for profit company, you buy shares in a company that's purpose is "for profit" so you joib up for that same purpose. With a NFP company, you join as a member with the purpose of pursuing the aims of the organisation (competing in and winning football matches).

OMac was developed as a zone defender: read the play, hit the contest. Not as a lockdown one-on-one defender. And in this role he is not bad. Lever is also a zone defender. Both were recruited pre 666 when we were playing a full zone defence. So you comments about replacing OMac with a different key defender wasn't going to happen. And Lever wasn't meant to play as a 3rd tall, he was meant to be part of a zone defence. We trialled 20+ players on a wing trying to make them work, it didnt so we went out and bought two options, one who finished top 4 in our bnf, the other plays 13 games, even if not all on the wing. We have tried small forwards for years: Garlett, JKH, Johnstone, Spargo, ANB, Bedford. Dan Butler was traded in the same trade period we got Pickett, so wasnt there a year earlier. Which othet successful small forwards have been on the market? Apparently Papely was available but Im not sure what you'd say about two first round picks for him. How many players do you think we can replace in one year?

Great idea. Pity he spent all of last preseason with Petracca only, instead of performing his role for all players on the list.

Ah [censored] that's horrible. In that case, I hope that his mess up didnt affect our decision. He has held it together all year in a tough year, and shown he could hold it together. That's next level and if we were going to offer him a role is probably irrelevant.

I hadnt heard this. During the hub?

I hope he teaches him how to get the umpires to accept invitations for morning coffee as well.

Or perhaps the fact that Goodwin wanted Yze to join last year when Jennings left but couldn't get him because of contract, shows that Goodwin knows its an area he needs expert support and is thrilled to have him on board. If Yze helps us succeed it just proves Goodwin was right to try and get him last year!

Yeah the Hawthorn IP has long been something missing in our coaching make up. We've brought it in from Essendon, Collingwood, Bulldogs, St Kilda, and others, but an ex-Hawthorn assistant is a strong addition.

That was my post you are referring to, and now you are repeating what I said the first time. In your previous post however, you said nothing about skills and just took a pot shot at Goodwin "not listening" to anyone. With no evidence.

It may be all one year deals due to the uncertainty of the new soft cap. It might also be related to the new short term pay put clause.

Yawn. Goodwin is the head coach. Yze is an assistant. I think it is likely he will take on some of the match day strategy/analyst role that Craig Jennings had, but we havn't since filled. With the reduced soft cap, he may take an active role in skills as well. “I’m really excited to be back at the Club but more importantly, I’m excited to be working alongside Goody (Simon Goodwin) and the coaching staff,” he told Melbourne Media. “Goody and I have got a strong connection and I see us as a really good fit together." What evidence do you have that Goodwin doesn't listen to the team around him?

From his profile on the Hawthorn website: Adem Yze - Head of Match Day Strategy & Opposition Yze was promoted to Assistant Coach at the end of 2014 after establishing himself as a respected teacher at Hawthorn. Originally, Yze joined the Hawks at the end of 2011 as a specialist coach, working particularly with the forwards on their goal-kicking before being appointed as a Development Coach at the end of 2013. Basically his specialties (kicking skills, kicking for goal, match day strategy) are our weaknesses. Fantastic get.

His k/hb ratio this year was 0.8, compated to 0.6 in 19 and 18, and 0.4 in 17 and 16. So it's a clear improvement. I felt at the start of the year there was a determined effort to kick more. But as we know he was turning it over by foot a lot and was rightly hammered in the media. He turned that around by driving out of the contest with his legs, gaining space and balance and kicking with less pressure. It was effective with his kicking effectiveness increasing dramatically for a 5 week block after that media hammering (starting with the Adelaide game). It isnt a surprise that his kicking was rubbish in the Swans and Freo games. Was that the weather and subsequent game style? Or was he being down on form one of the reasons we lost? His k/hb ratio for the first half of the season (r 1-9) was 0.79, while after that it increased to 0.90, also demonstrating changes in game style. Interestingly, his kicking efficiency has been very similar over the last 3 years, but in 18 and 19, it was much more consistent between games, where in 20 in went up and down (which kicking ~20% more). Potentially showing he was trying something different. Regarding coaching, I'll highlight this article: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-twist-turning-oliver-s-game-around-20200806-p55j3g.html "Demons coach Simon Goodwin identified that emerging midfielder Clayton Oliver was working on "driving his legs out of contest areas" to become a better player. ... It's not as though Melbourne's coaches haven't correctly identified the area in which he needs to improve to become a gun of the competition. ... both Oliver and his coaches recognise that to maximise his value he needs to find space after winning the unwinnable ball. That's why three weeks ago Goodwin was able to identify the midfielder's room for improvement while backing him to get there as one of the hardest-working players he had seen." Sounds like he is getting the coaching he needs.

Dominating finals isnt a requirement, because not all players play finals. He has only played 5 seasons since being drafted. In each of the last 4 years, he has had more disposals than any othe MFC player has ever had in the history of the game. He has had the 1st, 4th, 3rd and 3rd most contested possessions in the comp in the last 4 years. He has had the 6th, 9th, 3rd, and 10th most disposals in the comp in the last 4 years. He has had the 7th, 13th, 3rd and 8th most effective disposals in the comp in the last 4 years. He has had the 5th, 7th, 3rd, and 6th most tackles in the comp in the last 4 years. He has had the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 7th most clearances in the comp in the last 4 years. These are the stats that are relevant to midfielders. He is comfortably in the best 5 midfielders in the competition. It would be arrogant if he said he couldn't get better full stop. He hasn't said that. And neither did I. He doesn't need "better coaching" to get there. It is ridiculous of you to claim he doesnt have good coaching, when he has been able to be able to develop this well.

Love the highlights clip. Kicks goals off both feet (seems to usually be a right footer but kicked a left foot snap out a pack near the end). Looks like a player!

Jist double checking Kozy Pocketts EOC age in your list. Should it be 22, the same aa Rivers?