Changes for next week

[Guest MFC4Life]

Yes if I believed that I could identify with reasonable assurance another player with the assessed quality of Cheney or McNamara.

I think the issues the CJ has are his issues not any present or past coach and I dont believe he will make it as a great player.....certainly not at St Kilda!

Good call.

P.S. McNamara looks like a great pick-up. Yes we shouldn't get ahead of ourselves but I reckon we may have found another Rivers.

[Rogue 585]

I wouldn't drop CJ after one game. However, like many, I'm also not sure he'll make it.

Surely Garland is the #1 in line to be demoted, notwithstanding any match-up issues.

Buckley adds a lot, Bailey wants the run and carry game and he is one of the only blokes who has the ability to run with the footy and back himself in, he adds a lot and should not be compared with bell.

From what I've seen, Buckley's workrate when he should be presenting an option, or when we don't have the ball, simply hasn't been good enough.

His pace is welcomed, and I like that he backs himself - contrary to some, I'm not too fussed about his turnovers atm - but he needs to improve his workrate to earn a senior gig.

[Whispering_Jack 29,772]

If reports are correct that PJ has a broken hand then someone will have to step in for him. Most likely Mark Jamar but possibly Stef Martin.

Or both could come in if the club feels it needs the extra height in defence to cover Nathan Thompson.

[w00dy 146]

If reports are correct that PJ has a broken hand then someone will have to step in for him. Most likely Mark Jamar but possibly Stef Martin.

Or both could come in if the club feels it needs the extra height in defence to cover Nathan Thompson.

just confirmed by channel 10... out for a month... whenever he finds some form, he gets injured... can't take a trick...

[PhilReadFury 1]

In: Martin, Whelan

Out: Garland, PJ

Am looking forward to Stef Martin's debut - Mature body and attiude - Have a feeling he will develop quickly

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

just confirmed by channel 10... out for a month... whenever he finds some form, he gets injured... can't take a trick...

Great pity. One of the few real positives for us so far this season.

[drdrake 3,160]

Reading some of the posts you have to laugh, we put to much faith in some players

Moloney, how slow do you want to make our midfield, IMO you can't have Moloney, Mclean, Jones and McDonald in the same line up. Further that he hasn't played anywhere for 2 weeks, needs a run at Sandy with Valenti then we can see which one to keep next year.

Bate, hasn't played for 4-5 weeks once again IMO he needs a run at Sandy to get some touch if you don't he will struggle at AFL level to find form for weeks. A little easier to get kicks at VFL level first get a bit of confidence then back into the AFL side.

Newton the same he is not good enough to come straight into the team needs to show something at Sandy.

So this weeks team

Whelan Carroll Frawley

Bell Rivers Wheatley

Sylvia Mclean Davey

Bruce Miller Green

Aussie Neitz Robertson

White Jones Bartram

Jamar McDonald Morton Dunn

In Whelan Frawley Jamar

Out CJ Garland PJ

Bartram goes to Harvey

Bell-Jones

Whelan-Grant

Wheatley-Harding

Carroll-Thompson

Frawley-Brown

Rivers-Petrie

[Jaded No More 68,867]

I guess you would put CJ in with Robbo in your rose coloured bag. How are they going against Bruce ATM?

Rhino, all I said was that he deserves more than 1 game under Dean Bailey to show if he has what it takes to stay on our list beyond this year. Who knows, he could become handy depth. Not everyone on your list are going to fall into the best 22 basket, that's just impossible.

If I remember correctly we were offered a very low pick for him, around the 50's or so, and we didn't take it. That to me indicates that Bailey sees something in CJ and so I too would like to see it.

One game however is not long enough to measure any player, especially someone who has played so little.

And no, I don't blame Daniher for his development, but if he turns out to be a wasted draft pick, I'll blame Daniher for not giving him more opportunities so that we could have found that out sooner and got rid of him earlier (maybe even got a better pick in return).

[Scoop Junior 3,435]

I'd play Martin this week. I've seen what Jamar has to offer. A little bit of competitive ruckwork but little else. Nothing to get excited about.

North have some big forwards and I'd be happy to give Martin a crack and then switch in the ruck to allow White some rest.

To those who say no way, ask yourself this:

Could he do any worse than Garland or Weetra in the past few weeks? And what value does Jamar provide the side?

[dees_rule_4eva 22]

So this weeks team

Whelan Carroll Frawley

Bell Rivers Wheatley

Sylvia Mclean Davey

Bruce Miller Green

Aussie Neitz Robertson

White Jones Bartram

Jamar McDonald Morton Dunn

In Whelan Frawley Jamar

Out CJ Garland PJ

Perfect team given the injuries. Although I would perhaps give CJ another go, as one game does not determine whether he makes it or not. Leave him in, and let Frawley continue to develop for another week, with Bruce at half back and Dunn at half forward.

[grazman 7,406]

Perfect team given the injuries. Although I would perhaps give CJ another go, as one game does not determine whether he makes it or not. Leave him in, and let Frawley continue to develop for another week, with Bruce at half back and Dunn at half forward.

I think Dunn will be continued to play as a run with player pushing forward when the opportunities arise. Unfortunately he didn't really stop Bartel (but that's easier said than done) but was able to exploit the Cats by pushing forward for a couple of easyish goals. I think this is a good ploy, he's a natural goal kicker and the tendency for the tagged player is to try to get as far from the tagger as possible leaving Dunn more space running forward.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rhino, all I said was that he deserves more than 1 game under Dean Bailey to show if he has what it takes to stay on our list beyond this year. Who knows, he could become handy depth. Not everyone on your list are going to fall into the best 22 basket, that's just impossible.

If I remember correctly we were offered a very low pick for him, around the 50's or so, and we didn't take it. That to me indicates that Bailey sees something in CJ and so I too would like to see it.

One game however is not long enough to measure any player, especially someone who has played so little.

And no, I don't blame Daniher for his development, but if he turns out to be a wasted draft pick, I'll blame Daniher for not giving him more opportunities so that we could have found that out sooner and got rid of him earlier (maybe even got a better pick in return).

He has had 22 games in 4 years and shown nothing. Handy depth is akin to not good enough and if your depth is not pushing for regular Top 22 particularly in a bottom side then it is good bye.

If we were offered something in the 4th round then it becomes a lottery with mainly NQR recruits and possibly better the devil you know. Its hardly an endorsement. At the time of the draft DB had not seen CJ so there was no endorsement.

He turns out to be a wasted pick (and a F/S one at that) then he was no good.....period. And that is not Daniher's fault. He had just less than three years under ND and it would have been bit harsh to have cut him after two years as he was not bog awful. ND did not finish the year laast year and your estimation of his market value makes him a no issue for the draft. He just has not kicked on and the issues and blame are CJ's. If only ND gave Ferg more opportunity he would be a better player.

[grazman 7,406]

If only ND gave Ferg more opportunity he would be a better player.

If only we'd traded him for Sewell. The Hawks would have had to have played Fergs until he reached 150 games just to shut up their supporters.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If only we'd traded him for Sewell. The Hawks would have had to have played Fergs until he reached 150 games just to shut up their supporters.

Yes thats more the truth.

[Jaded No More 68,867]

He had just less than three years under ND

He was drafted in 2003, he had three and a half years.

Still, the point is that if he wasn't so awful, why wasn't he getting a game ahead of some truly ordinary players who kept getting picked in the side week after week after week?

Funny how Bailey could make an assessment on many other players who he chose to trade or delist, but not CJ. I don't buy that.

Bailey would have gone through numerous tapes of each player before deciding what to do with them.

A fourth round pick could get you a player who is NQR, it could get you another Bartram. Bailey chose CJ over a pick that could potentially help us acquire a very good player. Why did he do that?

I bet that CJ will get at least two or three more games before a decision is made either way, but I guess we'll see what happens on Thursday night.

[chapter 2 0]

I'd play Martin this week. I've seen what Jamar has to offer. A little bit of competitive ruckwork but little else. Nothing to get excited about.

How good is Martin as a ruck? I'd like to have him as a defender but i haven't heard much about his ruckwork ....

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

He was drafted in 2003, he had three and a half years.

Still, the point is that if he wasn't so awful, why wasn't he getting a game ahead of some truly ordinary players who kept getting picked in the side week after week after week?

Funny how Bailey could make an assessment on many other players who he chose to trade or delist, but not CJ. I don't buy that.

Bailey would have gone through numerous tapes of each player before deciding what to do with them.

A fourth round pick could get you a player who is NQR, it could get you another Bartram. Bailey chose CJ over a pick that could potentially help us acquire a very good player. Why did he do that?

I bet that CJ will get at least two or three more games before a decision is made either way, but I guess we'll see what happens on Thursday night.

He was recruited bottom age and his first 2 years were development for AFL. If thats your line, its even more damaging. I am cutting CJ some slack.

Bailey was appointed until just before the draft. CAC was in charge of list management and the delists were obvious. Also CJ had another year on contract. I doubt whether DB could make a valid assessment just on a few video tape highlights. And lets face it ....it would be a short tape!

For every fourth round pick that gets a Bartram there are at least 20 duds. Do the sums and analysis and it probably no better than 1 in 15! Their loser odds in poker.

Whether he gets one or more games will be dependent on what he shows like any other player. Nothing more or nothing less. Either way you will complain he was not given opportunity or we wasted a draft pick. You wont lose Jaded!!

[Jaded No More 68,867]

Whether he gets one or more games will be dependent on what he shows like any other player. Nothing more or nothing less. Either way you will complain he was not given opportunity or we wasted a draft pick. You wont lose Jaded!!

But that's just the thing, we don't know if he's been a wasted draft pick, and after 5 years at the club, you'd think we would.

I know exactly what McLean and Sylvia can and can't do, how come the same assessment can't be made for CJ?

What is his best position?

Can he play as a small forward?

Does he have sufficient pace to compete at AFL level given Bailey's game plan?

Maybe it's my fault for not knowing these things. I have zero time to get down and watch him at Sandringham, and I find it hard to judge a player on 22 games scattered over 4 years (22 games with an average of less than 50% ground time I bet).

If he was a wasted draft pick, so be it. He won't be the last and he is certainly not the first. I just would like to know either way, and given that he is still on our list having played just 22 games, you'd think Bailey would like to get the same answer.

And Rhino, as far as I'm concerned, there are two kinds of people in this world; those who concede defeat, and those that never lose

[rpfc 28,261]

And Rhino, as far as I'm concerned, there are two kinds of people in this world; those who concede defeat, and those that never lose

Jaded, this is not easy for me to say this to a fellow Melbourne supporter but...

I'm pretty sure George Bush agrees with you...

Just saying...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

But that's just the thing, we don't know if he's been a wasted draft pick, and after 5 years at the club, you'd think we would.

I know exactly what McLean and Sylvia can and can't do, how come the same assessment can't be made for CJ?

What is his best position?

Can he play as a small forward?

Does he have sufficient pace to compete at AFL level given Bailey's game plan?

Given he has been on the football list for 5 years with this year being his sixth. Its reasonable to think that a player of his size would either show that he has it or not within that period.

We took CJ with pick #36 in the 2002 draft as a concessional F/S pick. At the time he was regarded as being a player that would have gone early had MFC not played the F/S card. Its a third round pick. Some hit some dont. I dont sweat those as much as first round picks going astray.

Over that time, the MFC footy department would have enor

Maybe it's my fault for not knowing these things. I have zero time to get down and watch him at Sandringham, and I find it hard to judge a player on 22 games scattered over 4 years (22 games with an average of less than 50% ground time I bet).

If he was a wasted draft pick, so be it. He won't be the last and he is certainly not the first. I just would like to know either way, and given that he is still on our list having played just 22 games, you'd think Bailey would like to get the same answer.

How could you or anyone know the same level of detail as the Footy department unless you are as involved? As a spectator you are watching the whole game and following the ball in many instances. In the coaching box there are a variety of focusses on specific parts of the ground. Your frustration is what you and others dont see in the humdrum and excitement of the game.

Over that time, the MFC footy department would have enormous insight into CJ. Indeed, DB is no fool and CJs shortcomings would not be lost on him. He will give him an opportunity to make it but CJ would not want to burn it as a fringe player. He does not have many credits to burn.

The issue of lack of opportunity is a furphy and the issue of a wasted pick is a distraction. If anything the Footy dept needs to understand why a player who looked alright in a pre season game does not have the characteristics to take it to the next level. If he needs support to take the next step give him that support. Having been on the list for 5 years would suggest that has been the case. But FCS dont charity games to players because supporters believe they have not got the opportunity. I think ball is in CJ court like it has been for 2 or 3 years. Does he want it bad enough? I am not convinced he does from performances at Sandy and his lamentable efforts in the big league.

Jaded, by playing the alternating lack o opportunity/wasted pick line, I take it you never lose.

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

Yes thats more the truth.

Sewell for Fergburger would have been a real steal for the club.

Whats the bet Sewell would be struggling instead of starring if he was at Melbourne now?

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

In: Benny, Whelan, Martin

Out: PJ, Garland, Sylvia

[Cards13 9,117]

i doubt they'll drop CJ. This is what Daniher did to him throughout his career. Granted he's no superstar but to continually give him one game then drop him is no good for his confidence. Im sure Bailey would have said to him, you've got 3 weeks, show me what you can do.

As for ins and outs, although I am a big Garland fan, it's probably time for him to get some confidence playing for Sandy, remember he was taken in the same draft as Frawley and Petterd so ease up on the kid.

In Whelan Out Garland.

Moloney, Petterd and Bate all need games for Sandy, we should be raring to go Round 5 v the Blues.

Finnaly some sense... those 3, if Bails follows his 100% rule will be running around at Sandy this Sunday (?) unfortunately.

Jamar will be in for one, Garland might get the chop and maybe Robbo (unlikely unfortunately)

[The Emblem 1]

Finnaly some sense... those 3, if Bails follows his 100% rule will be running around at Sandy this Sunday (?) unfortunately.

Jamar will be in for one, Garland might get the chop and maybe Robbo (unlikely unfortunately)

I think given the Russian's so-so form a promotion now would be a retrograde step, despite his good work in the goal square when resting forward his lack of mobility accentuates our problems in this area. With PJ out for 4 and Meesen with a crook ankle I'd like to see us blood Martin as backman and pinch hit in the ruck from time to time to give White a rest.

In: Whelan, Martin, Bate

Out: Garland, PJ [inj], Robertson

Appreciate that bringing Bate straight back is a tough ask but feel these 3 in's would give us a better overall balance and increase our mobility which is in keeping with the new game plan.

P.S. Did not see CJ's game on Sunday...did see the boys run around on Saturday...given that the posts on CJ's perfromance have been less then glowing then an additional change may be CJ out, Frawley in.

[Stromberg45 0]

Sorry but one bloke here who is escaping all critisism is Davey. Having Oz in the team made me think back to how good davey was when he cared - he runs around all day with nothing short of token pressure, he does not look the slightest bit dangerous.

Out - Garland, Robertson, Chris Johnson, Davey, Miller

In - Bate, Buckley, Newton, Frawley, Maric

Radical changes but the blokes listed as ins are not lony better then the out they are also younger and have more potential. Davey is an exception he just needs a wake up call he has given us nothing in a very long time.

Now I guess I am open to public lashing

I like these changes! I think Robertson and Davey are in the same boat however. Both need to be told to 'WAKE THE f%*# UP!'