what sort of confidence would the likes of Ferguson, ward or Godfrey have when a guy like miller is kept on the list instead of them?

No way will they be able to recover from that.

Miller is hands down the worst player on our list, including our rookie list. Why is has got another chance and contract I do not know. He has no leadership potential because he has no potential of being able to play afl or even vfl standard football. He is consistent, but consistent at a very very low level. He has consistently shown that he doesn't have what it takes to kick goals as a forward, despite what role given to him, as even backs kick more goals than he does.

The reality is miller did have trade value and we turned it down. a silly decision. A 192cm frame with a weight of over 90kg sounds enticing for a CHF but i would much prefer a Yao Ming in a wheel chair who satisfies both of these credentials. If Miller has 5 more years of playing days than that is when this club can start to act seriously about winning a flag.

The fact that Dunn and Newton were slow-played due to the likes of Miller is like playing me in the back pocket for the crows and snuffing out Andrew Mcleod to play in the reserves.

If Miller stays, than they all should stay. Miller staying at the club should act as a precedent for all of the other players on the list. If miller stays, than they all should have stayed.

what sort of confidence would the likes of Ferguson, ward or Godfrey have when a guy like miller is kept on the list instead of them?

No way will they be able to recover from that.

Miller is hands down the worst player on our list, including our rookie list. Why is has got another chance and contract I do not know. He has no leadership potential because he has no potential of being able to play afl or even vfl standard football. He is consistent, but consistent at a very very low level. He has consistently shown that he doesn't have what it takes to kick goals as a forward, despite what role given to him, as even backs kick more goals than he does.

The reality is miller did have trade value and we turned it down. a silly decision. A 192cm frame with a weight of over 90kg sounds enticing for a CHF but i would much prefer a Yao Ming in a wheel chair who satisfies both of these credentials. If Miller has 5 more years of playing days than that is when this club can start to act seriously about winning a flag.

The fact that Dunn and Newton were slow-played due to the likes of Miller is like playing me in the back pocket for the crows and snuffing out Andrew Mcleod to play in the reserves.

If Miller stays, than they all should stay. Miller staying at the club should act as a precedent for all of the other players on the list. If miller stays, than they all should have stayed.

Rubbish.

The fact that another club and one that won a premiership recently wants him suggests that your assessment of Miller as a player is way off the mark. You say he doesn't even have the potential of being able to play "even vfl standard football" but when he did play there he booted 6 goals against a grand finallist in that competition. I suggest that we give the new coach a go at reviving his career before we bg the shyzen out of this player.

Agree Devil's advocate, miller could and should be a better player than those you have listed, its just a matter of whether bailey and co can coach him better than ND and co.

Freak, I am almost 100% certain that Miller, at some stage in the past, slept with your girlfriend/mum.

Your hated towards him is actually quite amusing.

Miller is younger than the delisted players you mentioned above, he is a KPP and has good leadership traits.

Clearly Dean Bailey thinks your assessment of him and his ability is rubbish. I'm definitely trusting Bailey on this one.

he is a KPP

he's as much a KPP as ( I want to call you my lady ) Holden is relevant to anything musical.

yes both participate in their respective fields and neither hit their MArks !!

condemed and Jaded, your on the money.

I am going to keep batting on about the very point that both of you have made until well into Dean Bailey's tenure as our coach.

Miller, along with every player on our list, deserves a chance under Bailey. Bailey and Roos, two appartently proffesional football brains, see something in Miller that you don't. These coaches see players like Miller with a clear head. No passion, no history, no frustration, just as a player in the game.

2008 is about development for the MFC, it about exploring the potential in players, like Miller, we have seen, but not seen realised.

We as supporters have to back this period of development, enjoy it's success and accept it's failures. But I for one feel optimistic about the path the MFC is on.

Freak your rant is fact and content free, full of your usual pretentious and shallow Miller bile and ulitimately boring. Its no surprise that you have the reached the vacuous and hollow conclusion you have.

Even to the most untrained eye, Miller offers a little more than Godfrey and Ferg. Its illogical and stupid to disagree with one retention and then to use to castigate the delisting of clearly NQR players in Ferg and Godfrey.

Your pretentious rubbish is further shown up by the fact no AFL cluba are queuing eagerly to secure the services of Godfrey and Ferg.

Freak your rant is fact and content free, full of your usual pretentious and shallow Miller bile and ulitimately boring. Its no surprise that you have the reached the vacuous and hollow conclusion you have.

Even to the most untrained eye, Miller offers a little more than Godfrey and Ferg. Its illogical and stupid to disagree with one retention and then to use to castigate the delisting of clearly NQR players in Ferg and Godfrey.

Your pretentious rubbish is further shown up by the fact no AFL cluba are queuing eagerly to secure the services of Godfrey and Ferg.

Freak, nothing more than an immature post, I should expect nothing more from you.

I read the first line then gave up. Godfrey, Ferguson etc will lose confidence because Miller was retained? I can think of at least three things wrong with that statement alone, but really, why bother.

Well what do you know - another Miller bash? What a crock of poo... Looking forward to BM in 2008 relishing in a permanent forward line role where our midfield will deliver to him.

what sort of confidence would the likes of Ferguson, ward or Godfrey have when a guy like miller is kept on the list instead of them?

No way will they be able to recover from that.

Miller is hands down the worst player on our list, including our rookie list. Why is has got another chance and contract I do not know. He has no leadership potential because he has no potential of being able to play afl or even vfl standard football. He is consistent, but consistent at a very very low level. He has consistently shown that he doesn't have what it takes to kick goals as a forward, despite what role given to him, as even backs kick more goals than he does.

The reality is miller did have trade value and we turned it down. a silly decision. A 192cm frame with a weight of over 90kg sounds enticing for a CHF but i would much prefer a Yao Ming in a wheel chair who satisfies both of these credentials. If Miller has 5 more years of playing days than that is when this club can start to act seriously about winning a flag.

The fact that Dunn and Newton were slow-played due to the likes of Miller is like playing me in the back pocket for the crows and snuffing out Andrew Mcleod to play in the reserves.

If Miller stays, than they all should stay. Miller staying at the club should act as a precedent for all of the other players on the list. If miller stays, than they all should have stayed.

strange post freak. firstly who cares about the confidence of delisted players? secondly, all the delisted players were much much older than miller. thirdly, what were we offered for miller? i bet it wasn't anyting any good. fourthly, of course miller ha potential, the question is how much hope do we have of seeing that potential fulfilled. you have seen him play well, kick a few goals, take marks, crash packs, and be a leader. he has a massive upside. and given his physical attributes that up side is even more valuable. now i agree with you. he is crap. has played some horrid footy the last 2 years and deserves to go. but. if you are going to keep anyone of the players delisted so far (or miller), miller was the one you kept because of the upside that could be drawn out. it might not work. it probably wont work. but there is more chance of miller having a solid season and helping us make finals than there is of godfrey, ferg or ward doing it.

Miller has played some good footy for the club before. If Bailey get his confidence back, then he is capable. I think he still has a lot to offer. As for Ferg, Godfrey having more to offer, I am not even going to bother

what sort of confidence would the likes of Ferguson, ward or Godfrey have when a guy like miller is kept on the list instead of them?

No way will they be able to recover from that.

Miller is hands down the worst player on our list, including our rookie list. Why is has got another chance and contract I do not know. He has no leadership potential because he has no potential of being able to play afl or even vfl standard football. He is consistent, but consistent at a very very low level. He has consistently shown that he doesn't have what it takes to kick goals as a forward, despite what role given to him, as even backs kick more goals than he does.

The reality is miller did have trade value and we turned it down. a silly decision. A 192cm frame with a weight of over 90kg sounds enticing for a CHF but i would much prefer a Yao Ming in a wheel chair who satisfies both of these credentials. If Miller has 5 more years of playing days than that is when this club can start to act seriously about winning a flag.

The fact that Dunn and Newton were slow-played due to the likes of Miller is like playing me in the back pocket for the crows and snuffing out Andrew Mcleod to play in the reserves.

If Miller stays, than they all should stay. Miller staying at the club should act as a precedent for all of the other players on the list. If miller stays, than they all should have stayed.

Frea, i whole heartedly agree with you.

Unfortunatley this club has had a motto since the last day in 1964...

"ostendo sum in medicoris"

"ostendo sum in medicoris"

Yeah, the MFC were too busy offloading class acts to other clubs for jackshit compensation to worry about delisting duds!

Yeah, the MFC were too busy offloading class acts to other clubs for jackshit compensation to worry about delisting duds!

TJ a class act...hardly with 2 top 10 finishes in 10 years. That is definite mediocrity.

TJ a class act...hardly with 2 top 10 finishes in 10 years. That is definite mediocrity.

Did you see us between rounds 15-18 this year. Our midfield was a rabble.

TJ returns in round 19 (V Dogs at the Dome) for instant results as he contolled the midfield.

He will be sorely missed. As Mark Robinson summed up in the Saturday Herald Sun "The Dees got pick 14 for TJ, but TJ is worth more than pick 14. The Lions were the big winners in that trade".

When we will ever be big winners in trade week?

Did you see us between rounds 15-18 this year. Our midfield was a rabble.

TJ returns in round 19 (V Dogs at the Dome) for instant results as he contolled the midfield.

He will be sorely missed. As Mark Robinson summed up in the Saturday Herald Sun "The Dees got pick 14 for TJ, but TJ is worth more than pick 14. The Lions were the big winners in that trade".

When we will ever be big winners in trade week?

BBP, TJ is 28 in August next year. We gave him ten years and I remember perhaps only 4 or 5 games (when he wasn't tagged) that he tore up over that period of time. If he has a decent tagger on him he is nowhere to be seen. I think we have done remarkebly well to get pick 14 at this stage of his career.

He is class but would you prefer TJ or Enright, Corey or Bartel in the trenches?

When we will ever be big winners in trade week?

Ask again in a few years when we can finally compare the careers of players like Daniel Bell (for Shane Woewoedin), Lynden Dunn (for Darren Jolly) and 2007 Pick 14 (for Travis Johnstone).

At the moment it looks like more upside than downside to me. Especially if the culture of this club shifts from "flash-in-the-pan laissez-faire" to something more solid, based on the rewards of hard work and application.

Your hated towards him is actually quite amusing.

Almost as funny as your hate of Bizzell.

Did you see us between rounds 15-18 this year. Our midfield was a rabble.

TJ returns in round 19 (V Dogs at the Dome) for instant results as he contolled the midfield.

He will be sorely missed. As Mark Robinson summed up in the Saturday Herald Sun "The Dees got pick 14 for TJ, but TJ is worth more than pick 14. The Lions were the big winners in that trade".

When we will ever be big winners in trade week?

In round 15 to 18 MFC played PA (away), Sydney (Away) Bris (Away) and Kangas who had a superior midfield to us and dominate the game.

We then play Footscray, a marshmallow team whose wheels had fallen off and they were playing like a bottom four side. They applied no defensive pressure against MFC and were easy pickings. It was a total different and softer option than the top 4 challenging sides we had been dealing in the previous four weeks. The result reflected that. It was an easy get for TJ not a consequence of TJ being there.

It is more telling what TJ did against Freo and Collingwood where there was some pressure on Melbourne midfield. What did TJ do when the heat was on????

Disappeared....Class Act that.

I would be seriously worried if I had to rely on the Herald Sun for validation.

FWIW, MFC4 Life and Maurie have it right.

It is more telling what TJ did against Freo and Collingwood where there was some pressure on Melbourne midfield.

I thought he was OK against Collingwood in round 20. Yes he was poor against Freo, but most of the boys had no interest in performing that day, aside from Green and Robbo.

He also polled a vote against West Coast at Subiaco, where there was some pressure on Melbourne midfield.

TJ was the player most capable of polling votes as was reflected in recent years. He polled the most votes for MFC in 2006, and would've polled more than Junior had he not missed 6/7 games in 2007.

Oh well, most of you are validating the TJ trade by citing the Woewodin/Bell trade. I look foward to the next cycle in 2010 when we trade a Sylvia or a McLean or a Jones for a treasured pick 13 or 14 or 15.

He will be sorely missed. As Mark Robinson summed up in the Saturday Herald Sun "The Dees got pick 14 for TJ, but TJ is worth more than pick 14. The Lions were the big winners in that trade".

Now iv'e heard everything - Somone quoting Mark Robinson as a credible opinion rather than as a cheer leader for the AFL who states the bleeding obvious.

Oh well, most of you are validating the TJ trade by citing the Woewodin/Bell trade. I look foward to the next cycle in 2010 when we trade a Sylvia or a McLean or a Jones for a treasured pick 13 or 14 or 15.

You were the one who asked "When we will ever be big winners in trade week?" The Bell and Dunn trades will provide an answer to that question, at some stage in the near future.

So it's not "validating", more like just previous example. And if McLean, Jones or Sylvia ever reach Johnstone's level of comfort and nonchalance, I wouldn't complain about trading them either (but certainly not until then!).

Quite clearly, Johnstone's trading was not simply a response to how he played in Game X or polled in Game Y.

So it's not "validating", more like just previous example. And if McLean, Jones or Sylvia ever reach Johnstone's level of comfort and nonchalance, I wouldn't complain about trading them either (but certainly not until then!).

My sentiments exactly Maurie...

I wll miss him because despite appearances I believed he always tried his best.

You were the one who asked "When we will ever be big winners in trade week?" The Bell and Dunn trades will provide an answer to that question, at some stage in the near future.

So it's not "validating", more like just previous example. And if McLean, Jones or Sylvia ever reach Johnstone's level of comfort and nonchalance, I wouldn't complain about trading them either (but certainly not until then!).

Quite clearly, Johnstone's trading was not simply a response to how he played in Game X or polled in Game Y.

Exactly to the point Maurie.