i mean id love to keep travis and really push the finals the next 3 years which we are capable of.... but its out of our control.... we were never going to get a top 10 pick guys we should be happy with 14.... hopefully a gem slips to 14 this often happens!!

but yeh brisbane will be a ripping side next year if bradshaw can return fit and firing.... get on black for the brownlow if they win enough games... even a dablle on TJ as black will be constantly feeding him the ball with those great hands

i mean id love to keep travis and really push the finals the next 3 years which we are capable of.... but its out of our control.... we were never going to get a top 10 pick guys we should be happy with 14.... hopefully a gem slips to 14 this often happens!!

but yeh brisbane will be a ripping side next year if bradshaw can return fit and firing.... get on black for the brownlow if they win enough games... even a dablle on TJ as black will be constantly feeding him the ball with those great hands

Leunberger/Charman, Power, Black, Lappin, TJ, Adcock,Sherman, Rischettili? is an awesome midfield.

Johno Brown, Bradshaw and an erratic Brennan would absolutely murder sides next year.

We should only go for pick 8 for Travis Johnstone for a straight swap with Brisbane.

To only receive pick 14 for Travo would just be ridiculous.

Here are my two bob's worth on the matter:

I'm disappointed to lose Johnstone. Clearly this is a decision made more for off-field culture reasons than on-field. I'm not privvy to the goings on behind the scenes at the club, but I'd imagine that if the club is so desperate to [censored] him off for an ordinary draft pick and continue to pay part of his salary, that he mustn't be Nelson Mandela off the park. So from that point of view, I can understand the club wanting to move on.

However, anyone expecting me to crack open the Maison if the deal gets done as reported is sorely mistaken. On-field, this is confirmation for me that we're prepared to take some hits on-field for the next couple of years in order to seriosuly challenge in three or four years time. My mind tells me that is logical, but I'm disappionted none the less. We've lost one of our top 5 players for a speculative pick. As others have noted, he could be Daniel Bell or he could be Nick Smith. If we're trading players based on inconsistency or lack of on-field output, then we'd be saying by-bye to quite a number of players this offseason. Cameron Bruce, bye bye. Sylvia, Carroll, Yze, Wheatley, Miller, C Johsnon, Ferguson, Warnock and Jamar, just to get the ball rolling.

Purely looking at this as a simple Trav for pick 14 with the MFC paying a part of his salary, I can't be happy with the deal.

Disgraceful trade, if we just settle for pick 14. We're losing our silkiest and classiest player for a speculative draft pick.

I'd demand a player in the package.

I hope all you guys enjoy Trapper dominate games for Brisbane and help them get in the finals, while marvelling at our 18 year old kid play his 22 games of Surburban Footy because CAC chose another Isaac Weetra or a Heath Neville.

Disgraceful trade, if we just settle for pick 14. We're losing our silkiest and classiest player for a speculative draft pick.

I'd demand a player in the package.

I hope all you guys enjoy Trapper dominate games for Brisbane and help them get in the finals, while marvelling at our 18 year old kid play his 22 games of Surburban Footy because CAC chose another Isaac Weetra or a Heath Neville.

I don't care what Johnstone does at Brisbane. It's what he doesn't do for us that is the point.

I'll back Cameron over Johnstone every day - Jones, Bell, Bate, Dunn, Frawley, Petterd - I'll take any of them for Johnstone and that's effectively what we're getting.

I'll back Cameron over Johnstone every day - Jones, Bell, Bate, Dunn, Frawley, Petterd - I'll take any of them for Johnstone and that's effectively what we're getting.

Lets hope so!!!!

I guess I'm not one for rebuilding. Come trade week, I look forward to picking up players rather than draft picks. But I guess we may be in for a couple of cold years if this is the direction were heading towards ie - No more Byron Picketts.

We should only go for pick 8 for Travis Johnstone for a straight swap with Brisbane.

To only receive pick 14 for Travo would just be ridiculous.

I agree that we should get nothing less than Pick 8 from Brisbane. This years draft is much thinner than the last few and even pick 8 will not give Melbourne a player comparable to what Trav gives, even with his inconsitancies taken into account. Pick 14 is a slap in the face, but I guess you have to expect it now as Melbourne did not shop Trav in the correct manner and I am sure he has now demanded to be traded no matter what the cost to Melbourne.

I am not saying I will not re-sign, but I can guarantee that the Footy Department will help the MFC loose thousands of Members for season 2008 as a direct reaction to this trade if it goes through for Pick 14 and nothing else?

Are the people complaining the same people who trot out the tried and true "we are always accepting mediocrity" line? I'd say it probably is.

The fact is that TJ is a supremely gifted player who does not affect the game as often as he should. And he is the style of player who needs to be very damaging offensively because he doesn't do much defensively at all.

It looks like Bailey is focussing on a team who works hard both ways: attack and defence. TJ doesn't do that and Bailey obviously doesn't think he can change the way he plays.

I'll back him to the hilt on that.

I hope all you guys enjoy Trapper dominate games for Brisbane and help them get in the finals, while marvelling at our 18 year old kid play his 22 games of Surburban Footy because CAC chose another Isaac Weetra or a Heath Neville.

Weetra and Neville weren't first round picks. We might get another Lynden Dunn, or Matthew Bate with pick 14. They were taken at around that point in their draft.

I think with trade time some people must deliberately park their Brain in Neutral.

Travis has spent 10 years at the club and has finished in the B&F twice He's played two consistent years in ten, he may very well rip it up for Brisbane next year and I'd expect to see some sort of biopic saying something like "expect a big season from the former number one draft pick as he has something to prove" Well guess what he never proved it with us, so time to move him on. If he plays well for Brisbane how does this really hurt us, he's being traded for a whole range of issue we gain more by improving the playing culture than simply getting pick 14.

People were so dead against getting Shaw, but a quick statistical comparison shows that there was neglible difference in his output to Trappers, yet people want a top ten pick for Travis- geez get real.

Just for the record Travis played 15 games in 08 he averaged 20 possessions at four and a half errors a game for a total prowess ranking of 48.7. Shaw played 14 games in 08 and averaged 2.5 possessions less, but with two less errors a game for a total prowess ranking of 46.3. Yet reading this forum you'd be forgiven for thinking one was the missing link in the premiership chain and the other a usless dud...

As for pick 14 I don't think people should concern themselves with the likelihood the club will pick the likes of a Luke Molan or Nick Smith again....

I don't care what Johnstone does at Brisbane. It's what he doesn't do for us that is the point.

Thanks Old, It took me 20 minutes to think out my tripe and you've summarised it in one sentence.

Is it not amazing that Cameron Wood is worth pick 14 and Shaw?! That’s a hefty price that if I were Collingwood I would not be giving. They can have Jamar for a quarter of that price!

Not to mention that we should be pushing for pick 14 and either a very late pick or a very young average player such as a Sherman from Brisbane. This whole think feels like Melbourne are just desperate to get rid of Johnstone, but only Brisbane are making the smart moves.

14 is not bad...but lets get some more for our slickest player!

Disgraceful trade, if we just settle for pick 14. We're losing our silkiest and classiest player for a speculative draft pick.

I'd demand a player in the package.

I hope all you guys enjoy Trapper dominate games for Brisbane and help them get in the finals, while marvelling at our 18 year old kid play his 22 games of Suburban Footy because CAC chose another Isaac Weetra or a Heath Neville.

Hardly a valid comparison. Weetra and Neville were both speculative picks in the 60s (and we don't even know what Weetra will do yet). Not quite the same as pick 14 for Johnstone, which is much less speculative.

You have to realise that the success rate of all draft picks probably averages about 50%, much higher for earlier ones and much less for later ones. While a 50% failure rate might bring you a Neville, Molan or Smith, a 50% success rate can bring you a Bate, Bell, Dunn or Jones. Assuming the TJ trade goes through, we will have two good chances this year of getting quality players with first round picks.

And it's stupid to bring up a list of previous picks of any particular number and show how bad they were. Maybe you should all believe in numerology rather than demonology if you think certain picks are jinxed.

Recruiting is physiological and psychological assessment combined with educated guessing. It is compounded later by a whole range of factors, from how a player settles in to a new environment, to injury, to homesickness, to players simply deciding that the grind of AFL is not their future. About half of each year's VCE students enter university not knowing in the slightest what they really want to do ... what makes you think a few aspirant footballers won't also come to realise they've made a mistake and "drop out"eventually?

As for TJ, personally I have very much liked watching him play over the years. But I also reckon he's been missing a few targets this year and his skills might be on the decline. I also realise that successful teams (look no further than every premier this decade) have a work ethic that accepts no passengers. As someone said, Johnstone would probably be happier playing an Xbox than lifting weights. And if we're talking of keeping mature players for some experience and work ethic, I don't think Johnstone fills the bill at all. He's basically a 27-year-old kid. We need "ruthlessness", not "comfort".

The time is right to move him on, in my opinion.

Amen Graz & Maurie, I wrote something very similar to both you guys late last night in response to someone whining about the impending TJ trade on another thread.

Is it not amazing that Cameron Wood is worth pick 14 and Shaw?! That’s a hefty price that if I were Collingwood I would not be giving. They can have Jamar for a quarter of that price!

Not to mention that we should be pushing for pick 14 and either a very late pick or a very young average player such as a Sherman from Brisbane. This whole think feels like Melbourne are just desperate to get rid of Johnstone, but only Brisbane are making the smart moves.

14 is not bad...but lets get some more for our slickest player!

and what exactly are you basing that on? The problem with trade time is that so many supporters come out and say "that's not enough... or how about we do this deal, or why didn't we chase so and so." The trouble being is that it bears no actual resemblance to what is going on in the real world. CAC, Bailey and Connolly are very smart operators, they've been intimately involved in footy and list management for a long, long time. It's what they get paid to do. I wonder if it has actually occured to anyone that pick 14 for Travis is actually the best offer on the table?

and what exactly are you basing that on? The problem with trade time is that so many supporters come out and say "that's not enough... or how about we do this deal, or why didn't we chase so and so." The trouble being is that it bears no actual resemblance to what is going on in the real world. CAC, Bailey and Connolly are very smart operators, they've been intimately involved in footy and list management for a long, long time. It's what they get paid to do. I wonder if it has actually occured to anyone that pick 14 for Travis is actually the best offer on the table?

14 this year or when he's out of contract next year - 3 year deal, PSD or take whatever we can get ...

If Brisbane want pick 14 and Shaw for Wood (who has potential, but hasn't set the world on fire) then we should be asking for pick 8 for Travis. Either that or pick 14 and a player. I would push for getting Sherman to the club. Of course that wouldn't be enough, so i'd throw in our pick from the Saints (if CJ does go to them) plus Trav for their pick 14 and Sherman. Or Trav and the Saints pick for Brisbane's pick 8.

Coz if Wood is worth pick 14 and Shaw, Trapper + 3rd rounder is definitely worth pick 8, or pick 14 and Sherman.

14 this year or when he's out of contract next year - 3 year deal, PSD or take whatever we can get ...

I'm glad some others are seeing the sense behind this and not blinded by the occasional flash of sunshine on the persistent cloud and haze that has been the hallmark of Trappers career.

Purely looking at this as a simple Trav for pick 14 with the MFC paying a part of his salary, I can't be happy with the deal.

This is the most pertinent point of the trade. Most clubs would have shied away from his current contractual salary, hence our bargaining power was diminished.

TJ would be amongst the top 6 paid players at the club, yet has achieved 2 top 10 finishes in the B&F in 10 years. If this equates to being our best player, we have many ill-informed supporters.

Glad to trade him now, while he still has some currency.

Weetra and Neville weren't first round picks. We might get another Lynden Dunn, or Matthew Bate with pick 14. They were taken at around that point in their draft.

another lynden dunn, no way! out of all the bagging of trav and carrol people must forget how bad he is! couldnt cut it at chf so we try him as a run with midfielder! He struggled at sandy in finals when it was to hot for him. he needed to stand up and be a leader he failed!

Again explain to me your logic. One is a twenty year old Ruckman taken with a first round pick 2 years ago, who addresses a pressing need for Collingwood, the other is a twenty eight year old midfielder with good skills, but poor work ethic taken as a round one pick ten years ago. Why the hell would Brisbane put Sherman into the mix?

Sherman is supposedly out of favour, that’s why there is a trade option there. As for Wood going high in the draft two years ago that doesn't really matter. Messen went at pick 8 a few years ago but we will be getting him for a 3rd round pick. There are heaps of ruckmen flying around this year, with Moran, King, Jamar (I would hope) and a few others. So to give up so much for Wood who is a second ruckman and a very thin one would seem a bit much. Not to mention a player as well!

If 14 is the best we can get for Trav then that will be the deal, but we are also paying 400,000 of his contract. It seems they are so desperate to get rid of him they will do it at any cost. I find it hard to believe he is that bad around the club.

This is the most pertinent point of the trade. Most clubs would have shied away from his current contractual salary, hence our bargaining power was diminished.

TJ would be amongst the top 6 paid players at the club, yet has achieved 2 top 10 finishes in the B&F in 10 years. If this equates to being our best player, we have many ill-informed supporters.

Glad to trade him now, while he still has some currency.

mmm he missed out of top 10 in 2006, yet his stats were a lot better than in 2005, he missed a lot of games over the years through op!

we are now offivially eating our own! embarrasing and disgraceful!

go lions!

TJ would be amongst the top 6 paid players at the club, yet has achieved 2 top 10 finishes in the B&F in 10 years. If this equates to being our best player, we have many ill-informed supporters.

Glad to trade him now, while he still has some currency.

It also frees up a large wad of the salary cap, which will be useful in 2009 when we need to retain a few of our rising young players.

another lynden dunn, no way! out of all the bagging of trav and carrol people must forget how bad he is! couldnt cut it at chf so we try him as a run with midfielder! He struggled at sandy in finals when it was to hot for him. he needed to stand up and be a leader he failed!

He's what, 20? 21? I highly doubt it rests upon his shoulders to turn the game, even at VFL level. I think he has some talent, he knows where the goal is, and with a bit of gym-work he could be a useful midfield-cum-forward option.