We're where we are because we haven't won a flag in 43 years. We lack supoport because we hardly won a game in the 1970's. How long ago was Fitzroy's last flag ? It explains their demise. Why did South move to Sydney ? Their lack of success. Success breeds success. Winning breeds winning.

And then you talk about my favourite chestnut, "respect". I couldn't give a rat's toss bag about 'respect'. I couldn't care less what the general footy community thinks of my club, because, you know what, if you're winning the rest follows. @#$% respect. How often do I hear our players talk about regaining respect at the beginning of a season ? Way too often is the answer. Win games of footy and you'll have all the respect you crave.

I too have children. Two boys - 6 and 7. One wore his Dees guernsey all day after Auskick. But if I thought that they'd be no flag for them by the time they're my age I'd tell them to follow another team.

If you're not winning flags, or puting yourself in a position to win them, then you're wasting the competitions time. And you'll end up like Fitzroy, or South.

So is my love of the MFC qualified ? Absolutely. It's not unconditional. Any relationship is a two way street. A flag has to be the unwavering goal. I'm glad you don't run the club Warren. It's softys like you that have got us in this position. It's not a lack of marketing. It's a lack of winning. And why haven't we won ? Because we're too pleased with second best and just satisfied existing, so your children have a club to support when they're your age. Big deal. There are 15 others.

Well thanks for clearing that up! I'm sorry your support of the Demons for the past, what 30 or so years, has been so unfulfilling. I have 30 years of great memories of afternoons spent with my Dad and brothers, visiting the old suburban grounds and talking about the feats of Flower, Wells, Lyon etc with my two kids who happen to be of similar age to yours. Sure, I really want a flag, but I love the Melbourne footy club. Oh and I don't ski, Idrive a Falcon and I vote Labor. We are a broad church - conditional or unconditional love for the club. See you at the game tomorrow night!

"cos if anyone on this board knows footy it is me" - YM, having reviewed heaps of your posts, most others on this site have more footy knowledge in their little toes.

Maybe you should stop being such a [censored] and support the club with a positive outlook to the future.

Jealousy is a curse

Rise above it

No

When there is a coach available that has won 4 flags, whilst the other candidates have done sweet [censored] all, I think it is a fair to say the giuy with 4 flags at the elite level is the best coach

Now please edit your post so that it says you have no clue, cos if anyone on this board knows footy it is me

Sheedy last coached a Premiership team in 2000 which is 8 seasons ago.

A question for you

- How do you think he has coached since the 2000 flag?

For mine that is the point. He was a great coach no doubt but that does not mean he is now. Essendon have slipped into mediocrity since 2000 and are years away from being in the flag race.

and I vote Labor.

I suspect we'd agree on little. Especially when I look at your bio of favourite players.

It explains much.

I suspect we'd agree on little. Especially when I look at your bio of favourite players.

It explains much.

Hannabal, you're beginning to sound as bitter and twisted as our friend over on Ology.

I'm sorry someone didn't turn you onto the Hawks at the start of the 80s and told you to follow them, you'd have lead a much richer and more fulfilled life. Why haven't you told your sons to barrack for someone else... we don't choose our teams they choose us . That's footy, very few get to play in a premiership, we shouldn't trivialise the achievements of those who haven't been lucky enough.

FWIW I think some of your arguments have merit, we don't want to become a club like St Kilda that celebrate the cult of the individual above the team, hopefully Bailey's appointment is a step towards what we all crave.

Happy Father's Day BTW.

I'm as disappointed as anyone that Sheedy wasn't appointed because I felt we needed a coach with his experience and the profile he could have brought to the club. Obviously, I didn't take part in the process so I can't criticise the final decision and I think we should also start looking ahead to what the new era will bring. The fact that we chose to go the way we did and not take a coach who could also potentially bring substantial sponsorships, memberships and publicity to the club in its 150th year puts an even greater onus on our Board to come up with initiatives to reestablish our financial independence. There will be no excuses from now on as far as that is concerned.

I fully support the appointment of a younger applicant to the coaching position and when the final five candidates were announced I favoured Bailey or Hardwick.

The arguments for Sheedy that have been presented were, to me, built on a false premise. As Whispering Jack states above a large part of the Sheedy package was based on the sponsorship and membership he could have brought to the club. But this is NOT the role of a cqach, revenue raising is the role of the CEO. The coaches role is to build a squad that can win games and while people point to Sheedy's experience they now have to go back to 2000 and 2001 for success.

In my opinion coaches, like players, have a used by date. Whilst having a great deal of respect for Sheedy's achievements I think there are clear indication that Sheeds has reached his coaches used by date. He was not fully focused on his job at Essendon and involved himself in many activities outside coaching including media, sportsmans nights and corporate work. This is not indicative of someone who is fully committed to a coaching role.

Contrary to opinion Essendon have not performed well over the last 4 or 5 years which is also indicative of a coach losing his focus. And remember, Sheedy has had all the football facilities he wants and all the support staff he wants. Those resources won't be available to him at Melbourne.

And finally Essendon didn't want him. Who better to know whether he'd reached his used by date than his employer?

Sheedy may have been a good coach of Melbourne but I thought there were some very worrying signs. And one thing is clear. The decision on who should coach our club should always have been based SOLELY on their coaching ability. Promotion, sponsorships and the like are not the role of the coach and should not have influenced the decision. And thankfully this seems to have been the case.

But where Jack and I agree is that the onus is now fully on Steve Harris as our CEO and the team he chooses to produce results off the ground. We have had disappointing results on and off the field this year, it's time for the performance in both areas to improve.

And finally Essendon didn't want him.

They didn't want Bailey, either! Apparently his Victorian profile isn't big enough in their opinion. Does this mean we have made a mistake? I hope not. I think he'll be a good coach, as Sheeds would have been.

Hannabal, you're beginning to sound as bitter and twisted as our friend over on Ology.

Happy Father's Day BTW.

Graz, I also doubt that you and I would agree on much, though I'm sure that won't cost you sleep. And as far as Rono goes ? I like him. Always have. I don't always agree with his views, but I like supporters that challenge the status quo.

I just don't get supporters that accept less than premiership success. And I am often embarrassed to support this club. It's just the way it is. But I live on in hope that we'll succeed in finding the Holy Grail. It's what keeps me going. It's also why I love young players coming into the team, as our hopes rest in youth. It's also why I dislike the fact that we, as a club, haven't turned our list over quickly enough. Too many players that were never going to take us to a flag remain on the list.

If my kids changed clubs tomorrow, and they are young enough to, I'd not put up much of a fight - depending upon who they chose. Although, I hasten to add that I don't encourage this. You see, I don't understand the Warren Dean type supporter, and nor does he understand me. I don't enjoy barracking for this club year after year without premiership success. Look, I know it's too late for me to jump off, and I've had too many fights defending this hack club's honour over nearly 40 years, but I still don't get how the average supporter is so tolerant of a club that doesn't win premierships.

My favourite player is Robert Flower, but you may be surprised to know my second all time favourite is Michael Voss. And he didn't even play for my club.

My favourite football memory was being at the Western Oval in round 22, 1987. How pathetic is that ? My favourite footy memory isn't even a final.

Either I'm off my nut, or Melbourne supporters have grown accustomed to not succeeding. They enjoy their footy and if a flag came great, but if not it's ok. Well, I just don't get that mentality.

I'd like to look back and celebrate Demon premierships over a beer. Currently I celebrate nothing. Maybe one day a few players may take over Voss' mantle. But they'll need a medal around their neck.

I cringe when there's discussion about the best Demons team you've seen. Or the best 80's or 90's side. Or who the best players were. It's cringeworthy because we're so far behind just about every other club in the competition. You may have great memories Graz, and so may Warren, but I don't. I can't celebrate anything other than what drives this competition. Flags.

It's just the way it is.

(And thanks for the father's day wishes.)

I would have been happy to get Sheeds, but not without reservations. Over the past few weeks since he's become involved in the Melbourne selection process there have been a few odd signs.

Every time he was asked by a reporter about what he thought were his chances of getting a gig at Melbourne, his replies were less than encouraging. It was all "ohh, I'm just seeing what's going on" or "we're just having a chat" or "just trying to work out if it's a good fit". Yes, he was probably being cagey, but I got this nagging feeling he thinks he has nothing left to prove and saw the Melbourne coaching job as nice way to round off his career, rather than an appointment to be grabbed and shaken for all it was worth.

It would have been preferable had we taken the hungry, nasty, young Sheeds of 1981 (we opted, of course, for Barassi because we didn't want to appoint a full-time coach) rather than the elder statesman Sheeds of 2007, who may, or may not, have lost his edge.

With that in mind, I'm quite content to wait a few years to see how Bailey turns out.

My favourite player is Robert Flower, but you may be surprised to know my second all time favourite is Michael Voss. And he didn't even play for my club.

It appears we have far more in common than you may suspect! When I was a kid growing up in country NSW I had to choose a team - I didn't want to be like everyone else who just barracked for who their father or mates barracked for. So I went to the history books and used to watch "The Winners" religously, of course they didn't show much of the Dees because we were crap, but they did show five minutes of Robbie Flower and that was enough for me. I was too young to have ever watched Barassi, but I reckon Michael Voss would go close to being about the most complete footballer I've ever seen.

I understand exactly where you are coming from...when I was a lot younger my best mate used to hang crap on me all the time, because he was "lucky" enought to barrack for Carlton...(even though his dad barracked for the cats and his mum and brother the dees) he used to get stuck into me about the "hapless demons" - from a herald sun byline at the time. It was just infuriating... he had countless premierships to reflect on and he had great mirth in telling me that we hadn't won any in my lifetime. We went to the 88 GF together and I was apopleptic with rage by half time. We didn't stick around for the presentation after the game and when we were walking along punt road a huge roar went up... and he asked me if I wanted to go back and see the presentation... I actually took a swing at him... and he never lets me forget it. Short story long... he actually doesn't follow the footy that much anymore, we've both played and coached in premierships ourselves since... I still follow the Dees as closely as I ever have waiting for the elusive flag, he is content with what he's seen and prefers to follow the teams he's personally been involved in. I often wonder what'll change in how I view footy if we ever win a premiership...

I meant every word in my darkest hour rambling... There's so much more to be got out of footy than simply winning and losing. It's a great tonic to be personally involved in footy at whatever level. It's all about what influence and control you have over your own happiness. I was an ordinary footballer and simply an interested on looker as a coach, but it's a wonderful thing to be involved in a team and its a wondeful game... maybe in that regard I'm not competitive, but I never really have been. Personally I'd like to see this as developing maturity rather than accepting mediocrity... I still hate losing. I take no satisfaction in anyone other than the Dees winning, but I no longer need them to win a premeirship to validate my existence or fulfill my dreams, or appreciate footy.

I'd like to think that in my two great sporting loves - football and cricket, that when I die, I'll go to heaven and there'll be no scoreboard and there''ll be no umpires to ruin a good game.

You see, I don't understand the Warren Dean type supporter, and nor does he understand me.

That would be the type of supporter who wants both sustainable success and long term viability. The type of supporter who will continue to support the club even if it makes decisions he doesn't always agree with. The type of supporter who voted "No" to the merger because he wants to see the Melbourne Demons win a flag, not some hybrid club and the type of supporter who wants his kids to have the feeling of belonging to a club that they know is theirs. I rarely agree with the decisions of footy administrations (league or club) because I think to some degree thay have forgotten about the fan. I will, however, always pay my membership each year, because it is this action which I believe justifies my right to express an opinion. I do not accept mediocrity, but I do accept that I am Melbourne through and through, as are my kids who probably know no better. I am 100% behind Dean Bailey and I hope he can help us as supporters to fulfill our dreams, but he cannot do it by himself, and if the club whithers on the vine, then he will have no chance of winning anything and then we have no one to follow.

Go Demons!!

Warren I think what Hannabal is saying is that the journey in itself is not worth it if you don't win a flag. To him the destination is not negotiable and the only reason to follow footy.

I want to win games and I want to win a flag. Maybe we will, maybe we won't (in my lifetime). But the friendships, the excitement of unexpected wins and the interest football provides makes it a more than worthwhile interest regardless of premierships.

I don't think this view makes me "accepting of mediocrity". It doesn't mean I like losing or don't want a flag. It just means I can appreciate a broader range of experiences in footy than just a premiership.

Whilst Hannabal can't understand my point of view I can't understand his. I don't know why you'd bother. But it doesn't mean you can't have robust discussion and remain friends.

Thanks the beauty of footy!!

Fan - Melbourne v Essendon from 2001:

Essendon:

1 GF loss

3 Semi Final exits

2 bottom four finishes

Melbourne:

2 Semi Final exits

2 Elimination Final exits

2 bottom four finishes

Essendon may have been poor in 2005-6, but since 2000 they have out-performed us results-wise. And many would argue Melbourne has had the better list. If Sheedy did not perform well, how did ND perform?

Scoop, you are comparing Sheedy's record with a coach who was sacked. And the records are very similar.

Warren I think what Hannabal is saying is that the journey in itself is not worth it if you don't win a flag. To him the destination is not negotiable and the only reason to follow footy.

I want to win games and I want to win a flag. Maybe we will, maybe we won't (in my lifetime). But the friendships, the excitement of unexpected wins and the interest football provides makes it a more than worthwhile interest regardless of premierships.

I don't think this view makes me "accepting of mediocrity". It doesn't mean I like losing or don't want a flag. It just means I can appreciate a broader range of experiences in footy than just a premiership.

Whilst Hannabal can't understand my point of view I can't understand his. I don't know why you'd bother. But it doesn't mean you can't have robust discussion and remain friends.

Thanks the beauty of footy!!

Agree entirely, Fan! Just clearing up what type of supporter I am, for the record!

Bob - Correct. And I'm not arguing that Sheedy has done a great job in the last 5 years. But Fan and yourself (any myself for that matter) have been a big wrap for ND over the journey and what I'm highlighting is that it's a bit odd to credit ND for his job while at the same time not giving Sheedy a wrap for essentially acheiving similar results.

http://footygoss.com/main/club_news/melbou...s_demons_coach/

I feel gutted Gardner and the board went for an uknown coach and just sick of our acceptance of mediocrity.

Now before you leap on me for being negative, I ask what the hell will the least known coach in the process offer the Melbourne Football Club to become a powerhouse again.

I am F$%king over the slow methodical big company like approach to select someone who I am sure can coach but will not build our brand. If no-one knew him till now, how will he help build Melbourne to the power it deserves.

We survive on dole payments from the AFL to show a decent balance sheet and a dwindling membership. Gardner spouts about profits artificially created by handouts.

I can see us in severe strife within 5 years.

Gardner is the least convincing leader whenever I see him interviewed and I have lost faith in him and the 'processes'.

If we don't shake up this list and actually think we can have a tilt at a premiership with this front running list I will screeaaammm.

Worse thing is - I can picture us having a good run next year from injuries and make top 6 with a mere top up of the list, only to fall again.

My god does anyone see the big picture? and see we as a club are looking down the barrell. How dare they overlook a man in sheedy who has built a powerhouse club, has a record so far better then Bailey its not funny, and the passion to prove he can still do it.

I am over it and gutted.

What makes you think we are just going to top up? No-one at the club and none of the short-listed coaches believes that we have a list that can win a premiership

We are rebuilding for the next 3 years, you can count on that. Sheedy's history is that he is not into rebuilding so he would not have been a good fit in that respect.

I am quietly confident that Bailey will surpise everyone a build and tough, competitive side

Exactly. I wanted to choose a coach who had credentials as a football coach! Not really a marketing guy

I think we just settled for the cheaper version. Sheedy would have had a huge price tag compared to Bailey. I think we just couldn't afford Sheedy more to the point

I just don't get supporters that accept less than premiership success.

If it was certain that we wont win a flag in my lifetime I would be out of here. I believe we will and that sustains me.

If it was certain that we wont win a flag in my lifetime I would be out of here. I believe we will and that sustains me.

Haha. I have a conflict of interests on this one. I have a Melbourne premiership on the "10 things to do before I die" list. So you can see the conflict....

If Sheedy did not perform well, how did ND perform?

IMHO, poorly. He certainly wouldn't have been Coach of MFC in that timeframe if it was up to me. Anyhow, old ground and all that

Mate, it's a simple fact of sporting life that the best way to market the club is by winning games.

It's a fair point, but conversely, I wonder how much it has helped the Roos.

Fwiw, I believe Bailey more likely to bring the ultimate success to our Club than any of the other candidates that made the shortlist.

I think we just settled for the cheaper version. Sheedy would have had a huge price tag compared to Bailey. I think we just couldn't afford Sheedy more to the point

Sheedy would not be the smarter choice. Plus, we would not have interviewed sheedy if we didn't think we could afford. Bailey supposedly had amazing presentations, ideas and match simulation.

Obviously he did the best in the process. Going an getting someone because of their profile is stupid. ie. Voss would have been stupid. Tim Watson was stupid.

Bailey may well be an outstanding coach. Ive heard him being interviewed, he speaks very well with media and I doubt he will have any issues marketing, ND couldn't market at the beginning but he turned it around. I know I'll buy my membership.