brock has never been good enough for captain .... and this year shows how right i have been

must overrated player on our list possibly in the afl.... he has been pathedic all year injuries or not.... he looks like he is running in cement.

Why do you keep posting here? Do you like getting up everyone's goat? Surely you don't post because you think anyone's really listening, or taking the slightest bit of heed of your comments...

Brock's '04-'06... he was ahead of the pace. Not at the pace of a Judd, for example, but still ahead of the curve somewhat. His '06 got stronger and stronger... He's had one bad year in which he's missed a LOT of game time.

The only reason you're slamming him is because you're sick of him being "over-rated" and Cam Bruce being "under-rated." Brock's performances speak for themselves... But no, you keep stripping him back... it's noble work you're doing...

when has brock mclean played well?

i can remember about 2 occasions.......... grossly overated

Brock has played well for nearly 3 years straight. Note I said "played well," not "played brilliantly." The way he works and carries himself, how he speaks in the media and how hard he goes in for the pill are what put him ahead of his peers... yet you never seem to mention these things?

This year? I agree. He HAS had about 2 good performances. Yes... This year has hurt him in terms of reputation and captaincy material. He is STILL ahead of his peers though.

not a captain material..... next year thats for sure, barley a leader.

Just say what you mean, mate. "Not a captain for next year, that's for sure." That's something anyone can agree on.

"Barely a Leader"

????????

Fair Dinkum... Do you know what a leader is? Did David Neitz ever get injured or play a bad one in his youth? Has Neitz played a bad year in his time? Has Neitz played a bad year when a mature footballer?

Does Brock go out clubbing 'til all hours? Does he inspire and expect the most from his team-mates? Does he have the physical attributes and skill sets?

Stop getting on here and offering up this mindless opinion exposition and say something real...

All you're doing is coming on and bitching like an old woman every time Brock has a mis-kick... It's getting old.

Take a leaf out of everyone else's book and start (just occassionally) putting the love of your club, and one of it's hardest working players ahead of your own political "demonland" agenda.

I like Brock, always have. I like his work ethic, I like his leadership, and in particular I like his calmness under pressure. His disposal is top shelf. This year hasn't been good for him, he's been injured and that has hampered him, he's also learning that sometimes you need to temper your ego and concentrate on the basics if you want to take the next step (Rob Harvey would be a very good mentor for him) Anyone that doubts his captaincy credentials has rocks in their head... the boy is ultra competitive, but he's still immature, he will get better.

agree wit everything u said dappa dan! im not saying he is crap or anything just needs to learn to get rid ofthe ball a bit quicker as it showed last nite. BB did u see him play last year against the dockers in our first final? if it wasn't for him we wud have lost the game. he showed true leadership and courage to win us the game.

brad green showed why he should be a potential captain 2night ....... he was the first of all players from both sides to get a huddle forming and have a talk... after the bell hit..... good to see.... his delivery was very good to our forwards

Actually the most prominent in getting the huddle together was Jeff White, waving his arms around and calling everyone in! What does that say?

i have never been on his bandwagon...

oh thats right, you've got your own bandwagon you like to ride...

the yze and bruce bandwagon...

He's had a poor year, injuries have contributed, and you'd naive to ignore that, but he still young and as Jaded has so gracefully put the point across, he seems to be carrying the hopes of long-suffering Melbourne supporters everywhere who are desperate for a superstar.

Last year was a great year for him, but look at the differences. He has only played 12 games this year, he has been in and out of the side, and to because a lot of "star players" like Bruce and Green have been equally injured, he has been taking the no. 1 tagger.

Last year i believe he missed about 3-4 games, and he was just starting to be recognised. While that St Kilda final was fantastic to watch, it probably made his job twice as harder for this year because he announced himself on a Friday night final.

I sort of agree with you RR, in that next year he should be producing better than this year, but you've got to give him some friggen leeway.

One final point, i think a lot of people see him as our Chris Judd, but remember that Judd has been in a side with Kerr and Cousines. It's a hell of a choice as to who you tag!

I think there is merit on both sides of this argument, and, if I may say, some consistencies!!

Brock has been a shining light since he joined the club. His second and third year produced performances that had him talked about as an emerging elite midfielder. By the end of 2006 he was in the top shelf of Melbourne's footballers.

But 2007 has been a disaster for him. From memory he missed a month or so of preseason and then of course injured his foot in game one missing a couple of months. His thigh and foot injuries meant he lost a lot of fitness and therefore his ability to run.

What is concerning is that having played 11 of the last 12 games he has failed to approach the form he showned in previous years. Three months is a fair time to "find form" and fitness.

He's an interesting footballer. He's not fast and he's not super agile but in previous years he had the wonderful knack of "finding the ball" both in play and stop plays. But not this year.

Injuries have had their impact this year but he has alway had injuries and has always played well very quickly on his return.

The optimists and apologists will sweep all this under the carpet. The realists and pessimists are worried because we are seeing things we didn't expect.

2008 will tell us much but clearly the talk of "next captain" should stop. He's nowhere near it.

I think there is merit on both sides of this argument, and, if I may say, some consistencies!!

Brock has been a shining light since he joined the club. His second and third year produced performances that had him talked about as an emerging elite midfielder. By the end of 2006 he was in the top shelf of Melbourne's footballers.

But 2007 has been a disaster for him. From memory he missed a month or so of preseason and then of course injured his foot in game one missing a couple of months. His thigh and foot injuries meant he lost a lot of fitness and therefore his ability to run.

What is concerning is that having played 11 of the last 12 games he has failed to approach the form he showned in previous years. Three months is a fair time to "find form" and fitness.

He's an interesting footballer. He's not fast and he's not super agile but in previous years he had the wonderful knack of "finding the ball" both in play and stop plays. But not this year.

Injuries have had their impact this year but he has alway had injuries and has always played well very quickly on his return.

The optimists and apologists will sweep all this under the carpet. The realists and pessimists are worried because we are seeing things we didn't expect.

2008 will tell us much but clearly the talk of "next captain" should stop. He's nowhere near it.

Great post Fan.

I don't know if there has been a modern Melbourne side as bereft of leadership as Melbourne 2007. I thought someone would have stood up in the last four years but no-one has.

Who said he should be traded?

He has put in a long line of shockers this year and if he runs out on the ground he is accountable for his performance.

Its not good enough.

And he has been one of major disappointments this year. And there have been a few.

He needs to produce next year..his 5th season. Its payback time.

He has produced above expectations in each season bar this one. Which player from that draft has performed better or is a better performed player than him over that period? People underestimate the extent abductor issues and no fitness basehave on a player particularly an inside midfielder. Has anyone seen Judd play recently? Agreed he should not be playing and doubt he would have played last night if not for the occasion. Doubt he will play next week or the rest of the season for that matter.

Brock great attitude and big heart, unfortunately imo what will hold him back is that he is a one paced player.

Why do you keep posting here? Do you like getting up everyone's goat? Surely you don't post because you think anyone's really listening, or taking the slightest bit of heed of your comments...

Why do ppl even respond to him.

Brock however has a problem where he tries to do too much and gets caught. Sometimes u just gotta kick it.

His work ethic and attitude will see him through. Neita will go on next year but i still have him next in line.

i can remember about 2 occasions.......... grossly overated

not a captain material..... next year thats for sure, barley a leader.

You have zero credibility on football related issues BB. You put Pickett in your votes for last night, which says to me you have no idea. Brock is having a bad run, partly because of injury\lack of fitness. If you have only seen him play 2 good games you either never watch games or you have no idea, I'm tipping the latter.

Brock's '04-'06... he was ahead of the pace. Not at the pace of a Judd, for example, but still ahead of the curve somewhat. His '06 got stronger and stronger... He's had one bad year in which he's missed a LOT of game time.

The only reason you're slamming him is because you're sick of him being "over-rated" and Cam Bruce being "under-rated." Brock's performances speak for themselves... But no, you keep stripping him back... it's noble work you're doing...

Brock has played well for nearly 3 years straight. Note I said "played well," not "played brilliantly." The way he works and carries himself, how he speaks in the media and how hard he goes in for the pill are what put him ahead of his peers... yet you never seem to mention these things?

This year? I agree. He HAS had about 2 good performances. Yes... This year has hurt him in terms of reputation and captaincy material. He is STILL ahead of his peers though.

Just say what you mean, mate. "Not a captain for next year, that's for sure." That's something anyone can agree on.

"Barely a Leader"

????????

Fair Dinkum... Do you know what a leader is? Did David Neitz ever get injured or play a bad one in his youth? Has Neitz played a bad year in his time? Has Neitz played a bad year when a mature footballer?

Does Brock go out clubbing 'til all hours? Does he inspire and expect the most from his team-mates? Does he have the physical attributes and skill sets?

Stop getting on here and offering up this mindless opinion exposition and say something real...

All you're doing is coming on and bitching like an old woman every time Brock has a mis-kick... It's getting old.

Take a leaf out of everyone else's book and start (just occassionally) putting the love of your club, and one of it's hardest working players ahead of your own political "demonland" agenda.

he was ahead of the pace.... and half the MFC supporters got ahead of the pace. and now hes taken giant steps backwards.... i have many reasons to be unhappy.

there is no need to bring cameron bruce into this.... brock has played 1 good game this year out of 12.... and i would expect him to impose himself more even is he is lackin some fitness.

i am not a sheep, everyones opinon will differ.. and mine does i have my favs. Hard work doesnt always mean u get the best results.... and thats life.

because he doesnt go clubbin doesnt make him a leader... invalid point.

agree wit everything u said dappa dan! im not saying he is crap or anything just needs to learn to get rid ofthe ball a bit quicker as it showed last nite. BB did u see him play last year against the dockers in our first final? if it wasn't for him we wud have lost the game. he showed true leadership and courage to win us the game.

do u mean st kilda.... there were better players on the night....had an average first half too.

Actually the most prominent in getting the huddle together was Jeff White, waving his arms around and calling everyone in! What does that say?

i beg to differ....

the yze and bruce bandwagon...

bruce is one of my favs... and is that a problem... he has no problems finding the ball when back from injury.

Why do ppl even respond to him.

Brock however has a problem where he tries to do too much and gets caught. Sometimes u just gotta kick it.

His work ethic and attitude will see him through. Neita will go on next year but i still have him next in line.

when u get ahead of urself u often try to do to much.... most of the demonland posters did get ahead of themselves.... and he is suffering

You have zero credibility on football related issues BB. You put Pickett in your votes for last night, which says to me you have no idea. Brock is having a bad run, partly because of injury\lack of fitness. If you have only seen him play 2 good games you either never watch games or you have no idea, I'm tipping the latter.

rhino put bate in his votes.... this would appear more strange to me... 2 goals and lots of pressure .... i thought he did welll.

because of injury and fitness.... so be it... hes havin a bad run..... and u admit that... so wats the problem? im not doubting his POTENTIAL but his performance this year and possibly for the future.

i remember 2 goals collingwood got in the first qrt resulting from mcleans efforts...

overran the ball when he should have marked.....

went to ground on davis...

caught holding the ball twice in the last not good enough.

pffft he had an average first half against the saints.. its a bit weird how your brain functions! brock got 25 possessions and kicked 2 goals. his first half was brilliant and kept us in the game. your boyfriend cameron bruce is soft as they come. cant kick for [censored] and doesn't get in and under for the hardball. he is lazy and does not show leadership. brock is going through one of those phases in football life. brock is dealing with the heavy tag and its a wonderful experience for him. bruce can get alot of the ball but 95% is being turned over. what does he want to be like his best mate daniel ward??

pffft he had an average first half against the saints.. its a bit weird how your brain functions! brock got 25 possessions and kicked 2 goals. his first half was brilliant and kept us in the game. your boyfriend cameron bruce is soft as they come. cant kick for [censored] and doesn't get in and under for the hardball. he is lazy and does not show leadership. brock is going through one of those phases in football life. brock is dealing with the heavy tag and its a wonderful experience for him. bruce can get alot of the ball but 95% is being turned over. what does he want to be like his best mate daniel ward??

so u were talkin about the saints game? i thought u said freo was our first final...

for wat its worth

cameron bruce 29 possesions 9 marks 1 goal 2 behinds and 7 tackles

he has showed leadership in the past

this year....

he failed as captain

given away silly free kicks

caught holding the ball to often

i dont know if u watched the game but brock had a poor first half.... its a fact... he did well to get backinto the game

im surprise u were even watching brock? yes bruce does get a heap of the ball but he turns it over big time!! he basically kicks more points then goals and imo he is grossly overated. u dont get much 21 year old get the job to skipper there club once in a while? has bruce done that no. A fit and firing brock mclean would easily cream over Bruce.

yes big deal wow bruce got 29 touches. But u wont know this but in 2005 round five against sydney he got 12 kicks 3 marks 10 handballs kicked 2 goals straight and laid 13 tackles!! this kid was only 19.

last year against the roos round 20 he picked up 36 possessions and laid 7 tackles. thats what a fully fit Mclean can do!!

oh cut him some slack one of the gutsyest players in da leauge, jones also great player

brock got 25 possessions and kicked 2 goals. his first half was brilliant and kept us in the game.[/quote]

im surprise u were even watching brock? yes bruce does get a heap of the ball but he turns it over big time!! he basically kicks more points then goals and imo he is grossly overated. u dont get much 21 year old get the job to skipper there club once in a while? has bruce done that no. A fit and firing brock mclean would easily cream over Bruce.

yes big deal wow bruce got 29 touches. But u wont know this but in 2005 round five against sydney he got 12 kicks 3 marks 10 handballs kicked 2 goals straight and laid 13 tackles!! this kid was only 19.

last year against the roos round 20 he picked up 36 possessions and laid 7 tackles. thats what a fully fit Mclean can do!!

last year and 2005 that is the problem we have seen too little of him this year.... he is injured alot and struggles to return to form....

Great post Fan.

I don't know if there has been a modern Melbourne side as bereft of leadership as Melbourne 2007. I thought someone would have stood up in the last four years but no-one has.

Lack of leaders has been our main problem since Viney and Lyon retired.

Todd Viney /sigh, what I'd give to have him playing for us right now.....

Injuries have had their impact this year but he has alway had injuries and has always played well very quickly on his return.

The optimists and apologists will sweep all this under the carpet. The realists and pessimists are worried because we are seeing things we didn't expect.

Round 9 vs. Kangaroos (first match back): 22 disposals, 5 marks, 9 tackles

Round 10 vs. Adelaide: 21 disposals, 4 marks, 4 tackles

Round 11 vs. Collingwood: 26 disposals, 3 marks, 5 tackles

Round 15 vs. Brisbane: 31 disposals, 5 marks, 3 tackles

Round 18 vs. Sydney: 19 disposals, 5 marks, 4 tackles

That's 5 good games (2 of which were outstanding) out of 11. Not horrible considering he's lost a lot of fitness in those 2 months he had the broken foot.

I'm not so sure people have actually stopped to look at his season. He was brilliant when he came back from injury, only to get injured again (when it happened, we don't know).

Guys please, bruce fit is a very good player who use's the ball well, mclean is the same, but this year both have had injury riddled years where they have been well below there best, and hopefully next year we will be arguing over who deserved the 3 votes due to both having 30+ touches, 2 goals each and 4 tackles

i have many reasons to be unhappy.

As do I. But not enough for me to be on here CONSTANTLY slagging him off like you do.

there is no need to bring cameron bruce into this....

Oh Jesus. The ONE post you fail to mention Kenny and you act holier than thou about mentioning him? What kind of education did you have?

brock has played 1 good game this year out of 12....

Garbage. Even you said he'd played 2... refer Jaded's post...

Hard work doesnt always mean u get the best results.... and thats life.

Agreed. However, hard work gets better results more of the time. Talent, experience, ability, physicality... none of these things mean squat without hard work. It's the only variable a player can TRULY control. But hey BB, we'll just say it doesn't always mean you get the best results... therefore... arguement won, right?

because he doesnt go clubbin doesnt make him a leader... invalid point.

Rubbish. MANY so-called leaders party harder than they should. The fact he's known for having his head screwed on straight is one of the factors that determines a leadership role. Would Shane Warne have been captain if he wasn't such a peanut? Likewise Fevola? Likewise Schwartz? Brock is ALREADY leading. The proof has been there to see for nearly 12 months now. The only thing lacking is a title, and his off-field demeanour and profile as a role model play a part, however big or small, in that decision.

do u mean st kilda.... there were better players on the night....had an average first half too.

Incorrect. Mclean had the biggest say on the result. Watch some football for a change will you?

bruce is one of my favs... and is that a problem...

No. He's one of mine too. Went to school with him. He's a wonderful, wonderful bloke and deserves more respect than he gets on here.... But at least I can see he's had a not-so-great year, considering his class. In fact, with injury considerations, as well as youth, I'd say Bruce's year is on a par with McLean's, maybe slightly ahead.

he has no problems finding the ball when back from injury.

Wrong. When he got dumped by Guerra after getting the 3 votes in the first 3 rounds, he came back some months later and showed little for the remainder of the year. In fact, your golden boy probably did about as much as Brock has this year give or take.

when u get ahead of urself u often try to do to much.... most of the demonland posters did get ahead of themselves.... and he is suffering

Oh, like you haven't? Who on here has said anything but that Brock's output has been diminished somewhat this year? The exception we take is when you come on and gasbag on about him not being a leader. He's had a bad year, just like EVERY footballer in the history of the game. The only sign he may be anything but what we dreamed in years to come is his inability to shake a hard tag. And honestly, I'd take just about any odds that in the next couple of years he'll turn into the type of player that plays EVERY game with a tag (Judd, Cousins, Hird), and that he'll learn to cope.

because of injury and fitness.... so be it... hes havin a bad run..... and u admit that... so wats the problem? im not doubting his POTENTIAL but his performance this year and possibly for the future.

WHAT?!!! Don't backpedal!

You said he's definitely not a leader for next year and that you doubt him in the future? Why are we still on this? Why can't you OPEN YOUR EYES!!!

I remember Tim from 'Ology and I had a pointed debate about this very topic. In the end we found some common ground that Brock would be a LIKELY captain in a few years, but that he was way too young just yet. I remember I clung to my logic until he said one thing... that everyone would be harping on about Jones for captain in 12 months... and while we aren't quite there yet, his point was well made.

The fans on here get VERY excited about our number 5. My point here is, BB, that you come on here, and you don't use logic, you just sling faeces on his reputation without any credible points... and it's not to make yourself sound smarter, or more world/footy wise, or even to bring Brock down. You want to get revenge for all the nastiness aimed at Cam Bruce...

You are VERY transparent. You would do better by spending your time gaining some credibility so that when you DO sing a player's praises, posters will read and listen... and not get irate. Worked for Jaded with Belly and Juice...

My agenda? I'd like to see MFC have a player that is UNIVERSALLY loved by his fans, a la Buckley/Hird/Judd/Cousins... Except for you there are VERY few people who bring Brock down. Almost none in fact. I'd love to see MFC fans get as excited about Cam as you (though he hasn't QUITE earned it just yet)... but if you can't get excited about more than Brock's "potential" then you're justn plain missing the point of footy...

Unfortunately brock has been near useless since the game they made him captain.

Remember all the write-ups and hype he was getting going into that game,

and how good we felt when he went to toss the coin and we realised he was captain.

And then he played bad. And continued to do so ever since.

Write off this year Brock, you'll be back to first class form next year (and yes there should be no debate about it, he IS a first class player). But no, don't make him captain.

Give it to Green - he's been the best of the standin captains this year.