18 minutes ago, Macca said:

Oliver hasn't played at all well for 3 years ... C- grading when factoring in the $Millions we've given him for 'supposed' elite performance

And we're now paying him $3.5Million to play elsewhere

The.Worst.Contract.Ever

And nothing comes close

By comparison, the Walsh contract is low risk

Walsh also adds a lot in terms of character, unselfishness and leadership. He's a team player and a good footballer

The sort of player that any sort of club needs ... a bit like our acquisition of Jack Steele (4 years)

People of good character

Oliver? The antitheses

Mmmmm dunno Macca. We signed Oliver in 2022 when he was easily one of, if not, the best players in the league. What came afterwards is immaterial to the standing he had at that time that we signed him as obviously nobody could’ve predicted the meltdown to come. He had just come off a premiership, it was before our straight sets exit of 22’ and 23’ finals. He also won coaches MVP 21 and 22.

The player Oliver was in 2022 vs the player (excluding leadership capabilities) Walsh is now, is worlds apart. Walsh has never been at Oliver’s elite level and injury wise alone, there’s 2 seasons worth of evidence that his playing capability has been affected.

There’s more chance Walsh’s body breaks down by the time he’s 31 than there is him becoming a dominant top 10 player for the next 5 years.

Was there anyone in 2022 sounding the alarm about Oliver explicitly being a massive risk?

Walsh has averaged 19 games per season since he stated playing ... so he's missed 4 or 5 games per year (when factoring in finals)

When Cornes critiques anything to do with football or footballers he argues in a completely one-sided way ... that's what shock-jocks do. They are like politicians in that sense

Never balanced, never fair but highly influential for those that want to buy-in.

4 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Mmmmm dunno Macca. We signed Oliver in 2022 when he was easily one of, if not, the best players in the league. What came afterwards is immaterial to the standing he had at that time that we signed him as obviously nobody could’ve predicted the meltdown to come. He had just come off a premiership, it was before our straight sets exit of 22’ and 23’ finals. He also won coaches MVP 21 and 22.

The player Oliver was in 2022 vs the player (excluding leadership capabilities) Walsh is now, is worlds apart. Walsh has never been at Oliver’s elite level and injury wise alone, there’s 2 seasons worth of evidence that his playing capability has been affected.

There’s more chance Walsh’s body breaks down by the time he’s 31 than there is him becoming a dominant top 10 player for the next 5 years.

Was there anyone in 2022 sounding the alarm about Oliver explicitly being a massive risk?

Well, I'm arguing outcomes (Oliver) and potential outcomes (Walsh)

Yes, it's true that Oliver was at the top of his game but if things go pear-shaped, it's still an accountable outcome

I can't imagine the Walsh contract heading the same way. Even if he only has 1 top year that will exceed the Oliver contract (not one top year)

On outcomes, the Blues are likely to be miles ahead of where we ended up

We're up for $3.5Million for the next 5 years (for diddly-squat)

Carlton? Who knows but will it involve $Millions in subsidies? Highly doubtful

In the end it all comes down to value for money

Oliver - Massive failure. Epic. And we got nothing for him as well

As previously stated, it's the biggest contract failure I've ever seen

Walsh - Risky yes but not that risky. All contracts are risky

If Oliver plays well at the Giants it won't count. He needed to do it at the Demons

Walsh is a future captain and highly regarded. The back complaint is the risk but we'll know more by seasons end

Luke Jackson got an 8 or 9 year deal and even McVee got 5 years at Freo (after a forgettable year in 2025)

There are numerous long term deals being handed out. We did it with Petracca, Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw & Kozzie. In 2024 we extended JVR's contract until the end of 2029

Warranted? In today's environment, probably

1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

It wouldn’t be a Demonland thread without a classic @Bring-Back-Powell single stat/match reference to make a point.

That game was 2.5 years ago. Clubs of course don’t make decisions based on one game. They also don’t make decisions based on form from 2.5 years ago. If they did, we’d still have Trac and Oliver on our list.

Alternatively, perhaps someone should offer Joel Amartey the next biggest contract in the AFL, given in Round 14 2024 he kicked 9 goals in a game.

Firstly, you do realise Walsh has put in a little more body of work over his career than just the 2023 semi final.

Secondly, clubs like Geelong, Hawthorn and St Kilda have gone super hard for him to suggest that he would’ve gotten a very long term contract elsewhere in order to turn his head.

Thirdly Amartey isn’t in the same stratosphere as Walsh as a player. One player has the runs on the board. The other plays a couple of good games a year.

2 minutes ago, Macca said:

Walsh has averaged 19 games per season since he stated playing ... so he's missed 4 or 5 games per year (when factoring in finals)

When Cornes critiques anything to do with football or footballers he argues in a completely one-sided way ... that's what shock-jocks do. They are like politicians in that sense

Never balanced, never fair but highly influential for those that want to buy-in.

Well, I'm arguing outcomes (Oliver) and potential outcomes (Walsh)

Yes, it's true that Oliver was at the top of his game but if things go pear-shaped, it's still an accountable outcome

I can't imagine the Walsh contract heading the same way. Even if he only has 1 top year that will exceed the Oliver contract (not one top year)

On outcomes, the Blues are likely to be miles ahead of where we ended up

We're up for $3.5Million for the next 5 years (for diddly-squat)

Carlton? Who knows but will it involve $Millions in subsidies? Highly doubtful

Yes, if things go pear shaped it is an accountable outcome.

So given Walsh’s injury, it’s not a wildly improbable outcome that he doesn’t play footy with 3-4 years left of his contract. Prospectively, $3.6-4.8million dollars to pay. Hell it’s a disc injury so he could injure it again in 2 years and he’s stuffed. Then it’s 6 years to pay.

Not much point in comparing things that have happened vs things that haven’t so I guess we’ll see how it plays out.

1 minute ago, BoBo said:

Yes, if things go pear shaped it is an accountable outcome.

So given Walsh’s injury, it’s not a wildly improbable outcome that he doesn’t play footy with 3-4 years left of his contract. Prospectively, $3.6-4.8million dollars to pay. Hell it’s a disc injury so he could injure it again in 2 years and he’s stuffed. Then it’s 6 years to pay.

Not much point in comparing things that have happened vs things that haven’t so I guess we’ll see how it plays out.

BoBo, I keep going back to the current environment of these long contracts and why all the clubs are offering them (long term deals)

The top players are getting what they want as the clubs just don't have a hold of the top players anymore. If you don't secure them, they'll walk.

And even if you have them secured, they can still walk (Petracca)

Player agents are probably going to the clubs with info that 'Such & such' a club are offering this, and another club is offering this

Before you know it, it's a virtual auction (wittin the 4 walls)

As @Bring-Back-Powell remarked above, it looks like Walsh (or his agent) were fielding offers from other clubs (with long term deals)*

As Gerard Healy said today, you need to keep players around the club that are 'the club'. It can't be all rookies, draftees and low-on-experience types

*The Viney extension happened soon after when North were making overtures for his services

1 hour ago, Macca said:

What about the Viney extension? 4 extra years and he might already be cooked*

We can hardly point point the finger when we're not very flash ourselves

The Brayshaw payout hurts as well in terms of cap space**

But thankfully, the Petracca contract was taken up by the Coasters (as well as gifting us 3 first rounders)

*I really hope he gets back to his best

**That lack of cap space could cost us the chance at a decent free agent

Viney, Brayshaw, and Olivers contract, just terrible mismanagement.

Viney swindled the club, Oliver didn't warrant the dollars (behavioural issues were well known), and Brayshaw we signed to a huge deal after concussion issues were already concerning. We will still feel the effects of those deals, however, Petracca upholding his part of the deal, has allowed us to cover for the other bad contracts. Great clubs don't make the mistakes we've made.

A basic, simple, hypothetical ...

So Sam Walsh 'was' out of contract at the end of 2027

2 clubs offer 7 - 8 year deals but Carlton only want to offer 5 years

Sam's agent fronts the Blues and says unless you offer him 8 years, he'll request a trade at the end of 2027

Blues buckle and offer the 8 year extension to Walsh

Walsh signs

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Macca

8 minutes ago, VoiceOfReason said:

Viney, Brayshaw, and Olivers contract, just terrible mismanagement.

Viney swindled the club, Oliver didn't warrant the dollars (behavioural issues were well known), and Brayshaw we signed to a huge deal after concussion issues were already concerning. We will still feel the effects of those deals, however, Petracca upholding his part of the deal, has allowed us to cover for the other bad contracts. Great clubs don't make the mistakes we've made.

I'm happy to admit that there is a bit of bad luck as well ... for instance, no one could possibly foretell what was going to happen with Clarrie. Not in a blue fit

With Brayshaw, he would probably still be playing if he wasn't king hit by a thug. His concussions were an issue but he was being managed well, so much so, that he hadn't missed a game since 2020 (played 3 full seasons (2021-2023)

But we jumped a bit early with Viney in my view. He was never leaving but did win the B & F in the year that his contract was extended (2024)

My argument on this thread is more so that why are we pointing the finger at Carlton & Walsh when all the clubs are handing out long contracts?

We got lucky with Petracca ... GC overpaid for him, in my view