14 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

The club turned a blind eye to all of these shenanigans.

People directly and indirectly knew but we kept winning to mask any sort of media coverage on it.

When the pressure grew too much it just all exploded beyond repair.

Chapter closed.

End of story.

Max Gawn is the gatekeeper to all these truths, he knows everything that went down.

The club knew, the media knew, other clubs knew.

I spoke with a player that was looking to move back to melb for an Asst Coaching role who said he would never go to melb because of the player problems and behaviours (this was back in 2023)

I have kids in their 20s who would regularly see certain melb players at nightclubs playing up.

It's not like it was a state secret.

The key is how the leadership group and the coaches deal with it and there the record speaks for itself.

16 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

The club turned a blind eye to all of these shenanigans.

People directly and indirectly knew but we kept winning to mask any sort of media coverage on it.

When the pressure grew too much it just all exploded beyond repair.

Chapter closed.

End of story.

Max Gawn is the gatekeeper to all these truths, he knows everything that went down.

It's like Sandpaper-gate in the cricket ... there's a good chance that they all knew including the keeper and the bowlers (especially)

As it stood at the time, the coach (Lehmann) resigned during that series

On 28/10/2025 at 10:18, Macca said:

He's good in many areas but not perfect. Post 2021, as a pillar of the club, he has to accept some sort of responsibility for the list going off the rails

Many here are/were quick to point the finger at Goodwin but Gawn is the captain

We heard that the players were given autonomy with regards to how they prepared for games. That's ok until the losses start incurring

So what is the skipper doing? And that unholy mess with Grundy?

Could be that he was a good captain and now, not so much

Mind you, it's not like we have any adequate replacements for Capt. & VC

I cant envision max being a dictator or authority figure to the group, leader on field and training standards maybe, but i couldnt see him pulling someone aside and telling them they have done wrong, thats just me viewing from the outside though

for a dawn-of-a-new-era thread there's a lot being regurgitated here about the previous era

50 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

The club knew, the media knew, other clubs knew.

I spoke with a player that was looking to move back to melb for an Asst Coaching role who said he would never go to melb because of the player problems and behaviours (this was back in 2023)

I have kids in their 20s who would regularly see certain melb players at nightclubs playing up.

It's not like it was a state secret.

The key is how the leadership group and the coaches deal with it and there the record speaks for itself.

I knew something was up when we hired Nathan Bassett and Nathan Jones last year.

No one wanted to come to us.

2 hours ago, Demonology said:

I cant envision max being a dictator or authority figure to the group, leader on field and training standards maybe, but i couldnt see him pulling someone aside and telling them they have done wrong, thats just me viewing from the outside though

I agree with this. I see Max as the consummate athlete, a great ruckman, but I have never seen him act as the director on the field, like a Selwood or a Hodge - he seems to worry more about his own game and not that of his teammates. This to me doesn't smell like the traits of a good captain. He also seems to panic under pressure - when the good captains thrive, he often lets himself, and the team down - ie goal kicking at crucial moments; trying for a torp across goal in the last line of defense in the dying seconds (leading to the May rebuke); no centre square leadership in the St Kilda game. As a media front man he is great; as a footballer he is a great; but his on-field leadership appears to be sadly lacking imo - and we are now in need of better than Max in this department. But who?

11 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

I agree with this. I see Max as the consummate athlete, a great ruckman, but I have never seen him act as the director on the field, like a Selwood or a Hodge - he seems to worry more about his own game and not that of his teammates. This to me doesn't smell like the traits of a good captain. He also seems to panic under pressure - when the good captains thrive, he often lets himself, and the team down - ie goal kicking at crucial moments; trying for a torp across goal in the last line of defense in the dying seconds (leading to the May rebuke); no centre square leadership in the St Kilda game. As a media front man he is great; as a footballer he is a great; but his on-field leadership appears to be sadly lacking imo - and we are now in need of better than Max in this department. But who?

11 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

I agree with this. I see Max as the consummate athlete, a great ruckman, but I have never seen him act as the director on the field, like a Selwood or a Hodge - he seems to worry more about his own game and not that of his teammates. This to me doesn't smell like the traits of a good captain. He also seems to panic under pressure - when the good captains thrive, he often lets himself, and the team down - ie goal kicking at crucial moments; trying for a torp across goal in the last line of defense in the dying seconds (leading to the May rebuke); no centre square leadership in the St Kilda game. As a media front man he is great; as a footballer he is a great; but his on-field leadership appears to be sadly lacking imo - and we are now in need of better than Max in this department. But who?

Apologies my post was more directed at our off field antics more than on field. Max definitely isn’t a strong on field leader either though. I’d give the captaincy to Jake lever imo. He may not be around too much longer but he’s a competitor, directs well, and is very good in front of media etc.

3 hours ago, Demonology said:

  14 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

I agree with this. I see Max as the consummate athlete, a great ruckman, but I have never seen him act as the director on the field, like a Selwood or a Hodge - he seems to worry more about his own game and not that of his teammates. This to me doesn't smell like the traits of a good captain. He also seems to panic under pressure - when the good captains thrive, he often lets himself, and the team down - ie goal kicking at crucial moments; trying for a torp across goal in the last line of defense in the dying seconds (leading to the May rebuke); no centre square leadership in the St Kilda game. As a media front man he is great; as a footballer he is a great; but his on-field leadership appears to be sadly lacking imo - and we are now in need of better than Max in this department. But who?

And yet we had the best midfield for three years in a row lead by this man who everyone is now trying to pick apart.

11 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

And yet we had the best midfield for three years in a row lead by this man who everyone is now trying to pick apart.

Im not trying to pick him apart, he just knows all that went down.

That's why he's the Gatekeeper.

22 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

And yet we had the best midfield for three years in a row lead by this man who everyone is now trying to pick apart.

Easy Dee, I'm not trying to pull him apart. Just because, IMO, he isn't a great on field leader, doesn't detract from him being a football great, as I've stated. I have no knowledge of off-field issues, so haven't gone there at all. And during those 3 years you refer to, when we, at that time, had the best 3 midfielders in the AFL in your team, you'd expect to dominate the midfield tussles.

8 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Easy Dee, I'm not trying to pull him apart. Just because, IMO, he isn't a great on field leader, doesn't detract from him being a football great, as I've stated. I have no knowledge of off-field issues, so haven't gone there at all. And during those 3 years you refer to, when we, at that time, had the best 3 midfielders in the AFL in your team, you'd expect to dominate the midfield tussles.

In my mind and statistically we more than held our own in ‘21-‘23 NC.

8 hours ago, DeeZone said:

And yet we had the best midfield for three years in a row lead by this man who everyone is now trying to pick apart.

what? where have i tried to pick him apart? i love the man. absolutely love him. I just cant see him being that kinda guy to rip another player to shreds for off field antics thats all

24 minutes ago, Demonology said:

what? where have i tried to pick him apart? i love the man. absolutely love him. I just cant see him being that kinda guy to rip another player to shreds for off field antics thats all

You are probably correct Demonology but great leaders rarely need to tear shreds off members of the group, a stare, touch on the shoulder an encouraging word is more Max’s style, taking someone into their inner sanctum to stop them wheel spinning in public. His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses and I wasn’t reacting to your comments so much as a number of others that made unsubstantiated references to Max’s behaviour on and off the field.👍

2 hours ago, DeeZone said:

You are probably correct Demonology but great leaders rarely need to tear shreds off members of the group, a stare, touch on the shoulder an encouraging word is more Max’s style, taking someone into their inner sanctum to stop them wheel spinning in public. His strengths far outweigh his weaknesses and I wasn’t reacting to your comments so much as a number of others that made unsubstantiated references to Max’s behaviour on and off the field.👍

Ah ok all good! :)

On 29/10/2025 at 14:40, reynolds46 said:

for a dawn-of-a-new-era thread there's a lot being regurgitated here about the previous era

I like their old stuff better than their new stuff

I also like Reynolds 46 tubs

Paul has struck with a new sponsor, it doesn’t say anything about shorts / jersey sponsor

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On 29/10/2025 at 12:15, The Taciturn Demon said:

Very interesting to see how Viney responds. I suspect one of the many reasons King was eager to get rid of (or at least didn't stand in the way of the departure of) Petracca and Oliver was the problem of old dogs being unable to learn new tricks. Arguably, Viney was the player most unable to adjust to the shift in Goodwin's game style when it became clear slamming it on the boot no longer worked.

Oliver was moved for off field reasons.

Petracca wanted out, we would've kept him otherwise.

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Oliver was moved for off field reasons.

Petracca wanted out, we would've kept him otherwise.

The question is Gonzo, right now, would we prefer 3 x 1st round draft picks or Petracca?

Remembering that we got nothing for Oliver other than the salary cap space and then the subsequent acquisition of Steele (and Mihocek?)

16 hours ago, Macca said:

The question is Gonzo, right now, would we prefer 3 x 1st round draft picks or Petracca?

Remembering that we got nothing for Oliver other than the salary cap space and then the subsequent acquisition of Steele (and Mihocek?)

Personally, I would've preferred Petracca over the 3x1s all things being equal but that's based on the apparent quality (or lack thereof) of this years draft crop. Last year I would've taken it and run as the top 10 last year was an outstanding crop.

6 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Personally, I would've preferred Petracca over the 3x1s all things being equal but that's based on the apparent quality (or lack thereof) of this years draft crop. Last year I would've taken it and run as the top 10 last year was an outstanding crop.

And all things being equal, for 2 off-seasons in row, Petracca wanted out

If it was just one year, then you get on with it. But it was obvious that Trac wanted out and we need a united group (were we united in 2024 & 2025?)

And his best years are possibly behind him. Very good but top notch?

I'll take the 3 x 1st rounders and back Jason Taylor in

If he can turn 2* of the 3 picks into top players (giving 10+ years of service) then we win the deal

But of course, time will tell

And who is to say that we might (somehow) land an extra 1st rounder in the 2026 draft? After all, we went into the 2025 trade week with just a pick in the mid 20's as our first pick

*Hoping for 3 top players with 3 x 1st rounders is probably a bridge too far

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

And all things being equal, for 2 off-seasons in row, Petracca wanted out

If it was just one year, then you get on with it. But it was obvious that Trac wanted out and we need a united group (were we united in 2024 & 2025?)

And his best years are possibly behind him. Very good but top notch?

I'll take the 3 x 1st rounders and back Jason Taylor in

If he can turn 2* of the 3 picks into top players (giving 10+ years of service) then we win the deal

But of course, time will tell

And who is to say that we might (somehow) land an extra 1st rounder in the 2026 draft? After all, we went into the 2025 trade week with just a pick in the mid 20's as our first pick

*Hoping for 3 top players with 3 x 1st rounders is probably a bridge too far

All fair points but I don't think we would've looked to move Petracca on if he didn't want out. That was my point, different situation to Oliver.

19 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

All fair points but I don't think we would've looked to move Petracca on if he didn't want out. That was my point, different situation to Oliver.

Well, I'm not so sure that we wanted to keep Trac that badly ... we certainly didn't do an Essendon (Merrett)

Did we fight hard to keep him? All we kept hearing was that we wanted to be compensated well. There was a fait accompli about the whole business

Did the club want to go through a 3rd year with the whole to and fro?

It's my belief that the club would be very pleased with the deal, all things considered

One thing is for sure, there will be no more talk about whether Ollie or Trac are going to stay or not

They are both gone

Edited November 2Nov 2 by Macca