59 minutes ago, rjay said:

I understand your point but we don't know that Max refused, or wanted to ruck purely on his terms.

My thoughts on this are that Max has never been able to play as a forward, he just can't do it.

As you well know (as a forward yourself) it's not that easy.

We had tried it before when the wisdom of the FD of the time tried to make Max a forward and Spencer the number one ruck (at Casey). It didn't work there and was never going to work at AFL level.

So we tried again, and it again failed. No surprises there.

Maybe rather than Max refusing or wanting to play only on his terms which is an interesting narrative, the FD realised we were better as a team with Max in the ruck and that Grundy was not a forward.

It could really be a simple as this.

Sure, but on the night in question (SF vs Carlton) we had T-Mac on one leg as our lone KPF ... he was also our 2nd ruck

The only other viable choice was Max

In my view it was Max or a complete liability (T-Mac)

On 24/10/2025 at 11:05, Macca said:

In my view, 8 - 10 wins looks the most likely outcome for 2026 (hopefully on an upwards curve)

Reality is that we are short on real talent and our disposal skills are not of a high standard

The above can be improved upon with recruiting (and that takes time)

Guerra would have had a big input whilst King & Smith would have been consulted (at the very least)

Not sure on Viney or even Gawn ... Green, Lamb & Richardson sure. But how influential? We may never find out

The perspective coaching applicants were asked to present their best 23 ... did King include Clarrie & May in his team? Or even Petracca?

As for Gawn, is he such a good leader?

Putting aside the good bloke factor and Max's outstanding football ability, it was under his watch as captain when things went pear-shaped within the playing group

As for Viney, he's coming off a poor season where his ball-getting ability and disposal skills were well below par. Not sure he'd be one of those consulted on the clubs future

I love Max as much as the next man. Criticising him feels like shooting Bambi.

But there’s absolutely zero doubt that the most important person for the “culture” of the football club is the captain.

People are so quick to blame Roffey, Pert and Goodwin for the downfall of the club the last few years.

But the President has very little to do with the players. Ditto the CEO. The coach isn’t (often) with players in their social time. When people criticise the “culture” of the club, it’s not the culture of the front and back office team they’re talking about, it’s the culture of the playing group.

Max is a terrific trainer and a great clubman but off the field he’s also a lad. I won’t go into any further details other than saying he likes a good time. And not just when he’s with his fellow elder statesmen. The culture of the club, and it has been under the duration of Max’s watch, is that they train hard but also that they “play hard” and that’s indoctrinated into the young players when they join.

He’s taken us to the promised land but I wonder how we’d have fared under a Selwood or Jack Steele solid citizen type skipper. We’ll never know. But people blaming the board and the administration team are naive.

The buck stops with Max.

Dont rate Max as a captain and never have.

Champion player but.

5 minutes ago, Dee Boys said:

But people blaming the board and the administration team are naive.

The buck stops with Max.

Sorry, but that is rubbish.

The buck stops with the board.

That's what they are there for, to oversee the operations of the whole club and given its main business is football that's where they needed to pay most attention.

If Max was a problem or not doing his job as skipper it was up to the board to put it right.

11 minutes ago, rjay said:

Sorry, but that is rubbish.

The buck stops with the board.

That's what they are there for, to oversee the operations of the whole club and given its main business is football that's where they needed to pay most attention.

If Max was a problem or not doing his job as skipper it was up to the board to put it right.

You can dispute it all you want but it’s not rubbish, it’s a fact.

What on earth do you want the board to do about the off field habits of the playing group? Chaperone them on their nights out? Address the playing group and tell them to pull their heads in? You reckon they’re going to listen to a couple of middle aged men and women in suits telling them to lay off the legal and illegal substances? They’d be laughed out of the room.

Or you want the board to sack Max as captain? Geez that’d go down well. There’d be absolute uproar.

It’s the height of naivety to suggest what players do on their nights out is a board issue. It’s just completely unrealistic. If you’re a young player at a footy club, who do you reckon you’re looking at for inspiration and leadership? Your captain or a board member?

45 minutes ago, rjay said:

Sorry, but that is rubbish.

The buck stops with the board.

That's what they are there for, to oversee the operations of the whole club and given its main business is football that's where they needed to pay most attention.

If Max was a problem or not doing his job as skipper it was up to the board to put it right.

"The buck stops with the board." Speaking of which a letter from the incoming President.....

The Board’s role involves governance, risk identification and mitigation and ensuring we are financially solvent. If anyone should of been required to curb Max’s off field behaviour and culture setting it is the CEO, Footy Manager and Coach

49 minutes ago, Dee Boys said:

I love Max as much as the next man. Criticising him feels like shooting Bambi.

But there’s absolutely zero doubt that the most important person for the “culture” of the football club is the captain.

People are so quick to blame Roffey, Pert and Goodwin for the downfall of the club the last few years.

But the President has very little to do with the players. Ditto the CEO. The coach isn’t (often) with players in their social time. When people criticise the “culture” of the club, it’s not the culture of the front and back office team they’re talking about, it’s the culture of the playing group.

Max is a terrific trainer and a great clubman but off the field he’s also a lad. I won’t go into any further details other than saying he likes a good time. And not just when he’s with his fellow elder statesmen. The culture of the club, and it has been under the duration of Max’s watch, is that they train hard but also that they “play hard” and that’s indoctrinated into the young players when they join.

He’s taken us to the promised land but I wonder how we’d have fared under a Selwood or Jack Steele solid citizen type skipper. We’ll never know. But people blaming the board and the administration team are naive.

The buck stops with Max.

Despite my misgivings, I've still got Max as captain for 2 reasons

1) I highly doubt that he'll be replaced so I'd rather stand with Max over the next 2 development years (we need to train up the young blokes)

2) Who else is there? Viney? Steele?

My criticism is more about being the goings-ons being under his watch because by contrast, Max himself has led by example in exemplary fashion. And hasn't transgressed himself

Maybe, just like Goodwin, he just placed too much faith with certain players

So Max stays on as captain but I hope the club can keep everyone in line this time around

Best culture? That's a laugh

As an aside, earlier this year, the Ox had some very interesting things to say about the player behaviour (off-field)

Considering @Dee Boys knows a player within the club on a person level really well, then I'd be hesitant to question his insight on this.

I have previously spoken to a now ex player of the club on this and whilst he rates Max as a decent guy, he simply doesn't rate him as a leader. Said Nathan Jones was the best captain he's played under during his time at the club.

Who will be / should be captain next season?

I think with all the changes it’s probably time for a new captain but not sure who.

14 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Considering @Dee Boys knows a player within the club on a person level really well, then I'd be hesitant to question his insight on this.

I'm not questioning his insight...

...but to say the board and administration aren't ultimately responsible for problems at the club is wrong.

The buck stops with them, not Max.

1 hour ago, Dee Boys said:

Or you want the board to sack Max as captain? Geez that’d go down well. There’d be absolute uproar.

Of course they don't get down in the trenches..

If there are issues then they have the ultimate responsibility to see that they (the issues) are fixed.

The board are responsible for putting in senior management to control the day to day running of the club.

If those people are not doing there jobs then they get moved on, like in any organisation.

Change has now happened but maybe some of these things should have been addressed earlier.

39 minutes ago, #11-TonyAnderson said:

The Board’s role involves governance, risk identification and mitigation and ensuring we are financially solvent. If anyone should of been required to curb Max’s off field behaviour and culture setting it is the CEO, Footy Manager and Coach

Yes, but ultimately its the boards responsibility.

Edited 13 hours ago13 hr by rjay

46 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I have previously spoken to a now ex player of the club on this and whilst he rates Max as a decent guy, he simply doesn't rate him as a leader.

All those close losses smack of a lack of on-field leadership. You only have to go back to the St Kilda debacle (sorry) ... Max was standing in the middle next to Nas, yet failed to pick up on what was about to happen. Max is a great leader-by-example, but he's not a great onfield coach or tactician. Once again, we're paying on-field for the loss of the likes of Guss and ANB, plus the absence this year of Lever.

19 minutes ago, rjay said:

I'm not questioning his insight...

...but to say the board and administration aren't ultimately responsible for problems at the club is wrong.

The buck stops with them, not Max.

Of course they don't get down in the trenches..

If there are issues then they have the ultimate responsibility to see that they (the issues) are fixed.

The board are responsible for putting in senior management to control the day to day running of the club.

If those people are not doing there jobs then they get moved on, like in any organisation.

Change has now happened but maybe some of these things should have been addressed earlier.

Yes, but ultimately its the boards responsibility.

Are the board responsible for Joel Smith indiscretions? Clayton Oliver off field antics? Steven May belting teammates?

Which one is it?

Edited 12 hours ago12 hr by dazzledavey36

3 minutes ago, bing181 said:

All those close losses smack of a lack of on-field leadership. You only have to go back to the St Kilda debacle (sorry) ... Max was standing in the middle next to Nas, yet failed to pick up on what was about to happen. Max is a great leader-by-example, but he's not a great onfield coach or tactician. Once again, we're paying on-field for the loss of the likes of Guss and ANB, plus the absence this year of Lever.

To add further to this i have lost count how many times we have found ourselves in moments of the game over the past two years where Max has lined up for goal to either put us in front of give us momentum and yet misses his shot at crucial stages of the game.

He does a lot right from a playing perspective and is a champion of a ruckman, but his on field leadership leaves a lot to be desired.

52 minutes ago, rjay said:

I'm not questioning his insight...

...but to say the board and administration aren't ultimately responsible for problems at the club is wrong.

The buck stops with them, not Max.

Of course they don't get down in the trenches..

If there are issues then they have the ultimate responsibility to see that they (the issues) are fixed.

The board are responsible for putting in senior management to control the day to day running of the club.

If those people are not doing there jobs then they get moved on, like in any organisation.

Change has now happened but maybe some of these things should have been addressed earlier.

Yes, but ultimately its the boards responsibility.

But what the players get up to on days and nights off away from the club is not “the day to day running of the club!”

It’s wild to me that you or anyone could think that a board should be able to control the lives of 40 odd young men that they have no day to day dealings with.

You say “change has now happened”, do you think Paul Guerra and Brad Green replacing Roffey and Pert has made a single iota of difference to the players social habits?

Edited 12 hours ago12 hr by Dee Boys

On 23/10/2025 at 18:00, rpfc said:

There’s room to grow

We can always lose those games by more

I am sensing a more sarcastic tone to your recent posting.

Also the reason why Gawn is still captain and will probably remain so for the next couple of years is because we have no one better to replace him.

That’s an indictment not of the board, but of the development of players, the coaches and the players themselves. The reason why weve gone down hill so rapidly is because there is no next wave of players coming through. A big reason to why we never got close to winning another flag.

The FD realise that our best chance of our next premiership success will be driven by the likes of XL, Langford, JVR, Windsor and picks 7 & 8. Which says a fair bit about the likes of Salem ,Langdon, Laurie, Rivers, Fritsch, Sparrow, Petty, Chandler et al.

Some wild takes in here.

Is Bont a poor captain? Smith, Hunter, Ugle-Hagan - all his fault? Nah. He’s a great captain.

Captaincy is so much about the leadership example you personally set. If people don’t want to follow then at a certain point that is a responsibility that only falls on them.

Max is a gun, and it’s crazy to me that anyone who’s watched him play for the last decade would suggest anything but that he’s a great leader. You can only lead a horse to water, and Gawn does it every time.

48 minutes ago, Dee Boys said:

But what the players get up to on days and nights off away from the club is not “the day to day running of the club!”

It’s wild to me that you or anyone could think that a board should be able to control the lives of 40 odd young men that they have no day to day dealings with.

You say “change has now happened”, do you think Paul Guerra and Brad Green replacing Roffey and Pert has made a single iota of difference to the players social habits?

I'm not talking about social habits...at all.

I'm talking about on ground performance and we're the club who were siting on top of the AFL world in 2021 have slid down to basically a rebuild with nothing more to show for it.

That is on the board.

All clubs have the same social habits, if you think they don't you're dreaming and if you think Max could stop it or any captain for that matter you're also dreaming.

15 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Some wild takes in here.

Is Bont a poor captain? Smith, Hunter, Ugle-Hagan - all his fault? Nah. He’s a great captain.

Captaincy is so much about the leadership example you personally set. If people don’t want to follow then at a certain point that is a responsibility that only falls on them.

Max is a gun, and it’s crazy to me that anyone who’s watched him play for the last decade would suggest anything but that he’s a great leader. You can only lead a horse to water, and Gawn does it every time.

Spot on...

41 minutes ago, rjay said:

I'm not talking about social habits...at all.

I'm talking about on ground performance and we're the club who were siting on top of the AFL world in 2021 have slid down to basically a rebuild with nothing more to show for it.

That is on the board.

All clubs have the same social habits, if you think they don't you're dreaming and if you think Max could stop it or any captain for that matter you're also dreaming.

Spot on...

So now the board is responsible for the on field playing performance on gameday??

Probably one of the wildest takes I've read on here 🤣

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by dazzledavey36

4 hours ago, rjay said:

Sorry, but that is rubbish.

The buck stops with the board.

That's what they are there for, to oversee the operations of the whole club and given its main business is football that's where they needed to pay most attention.

If Max was a problem or not doing his job as skipper it was up to the board to put it right.

Far out.

Fancy blaming Max for not being able to control all the chaos that surrounded the FD, some of the blow torch was a direct result of the board not being able to put out a fire with a past president, so the coach had an article about him pop up every few months that would drag everyone down with it.

The board then failed to get proper support around Goody and Richo, which goes to the CEO at the time, who was ultimately appointed by the board.

Sure, players have responsibilities, but it's a tale as old as time. Board stability and structure helps breed on field success and vice versa.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by Adam The God

26 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

So now the board is responsible for the on field playing performance on gameday??

Probably one of the wildest takes I've read on here 🤣

The board provide the environment that the team works within.

They hire the CEO, The Coach, provide the club facilities, make sure that the bills are paid ...among other things.

Adam puts it better than me...

13 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Board stability and structure helps breed on field success and vice versa.

5 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

Captaincy is so much about the leadership example you personally set.

On field AND off.

Re Ugle Hagen, there were reports last off-season about Bont taking him under his wing, trying to get him to the gym etc.

And captaincy these days is so much more than about how you play e.g. the St Kilda game again. Max was standing in the centre, why didn't he realise that we were a player short there and address the developing 6 6 6 issue before it became the infringement that eventually cost us the game? You think of the amount of directing of traffic that players like Hodge or Pendlebury do/did, where's someone like Max in all that?

5 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

That’s an indictment not of the board, but of the development of players, the coaches and the players themselves.

Perhaps, but the unexpected loss within 12 months of Gus and then ANB changed the profile of the list in terms of experience, and especially in terms of leadership. Even reports coming out of the Crows refer to the difference ANB has made in that regard.

12 hours ago, Macca said:

As an aside, earlier this year, the Ox had some very interesting things to say about the player behaviour (off-field)

I'd be interested to know what he did say, so care to share any key points or links to something that does?

That said, I find it very hard being lectured on this kind of stuff by the Ox the way he does. The club wasted so much tallent and oppertunity during his time as a player.

Say what you will about Max, but under his leadership we actually delivered 2 - 3 pretty elite seasons that have no equal in my lifetime as a MFC supporter in terms of performance and results. Even though we ultimately fell short in 22 and 23, the club has never been able to put together such a dominant stretch of form and be the force of the competition that we were from the period of the start of 2021 till at least mid way through 2022.