32 minutes ago, Robbie57 said:

Where was our midfield yesterday? It was painful to watch the Crows waltzing out of the centre. Trac was in full panic mode (beast mode been missing for a while).

We desperately need a proven forward. I dont care who, BBB made a huge difference to us in retrospect.

That said we must persist with JVR who showed promise, then we made him ruck draining the soul out of him so he got no momentum. Must play every game now. He is our best kick at goal.

As for Jeffo, poor second efforts but equally dropping him now would be a wasted opportunity. He is physically like BBB. He will cause us to pull out our hair but there is absolutely no downside to rolling the dice for the balance of the season. (get BBB or anyone to help him)

Have I mentioned kicking practice? Our first quarter was appalling.

Who would you play in the ruck then?

1 hour ago, Dee Boys said:

Petracca did play predominantly forward.

Oliver, Petracca and Viney didn’t attend a single centre bounce together.

What game were you watching?

1 hour ago, Dee Boys said:

Petracca did play predominantly forward.

Oliver, Petracca and Viney didn’t attend a single centre bounce together.

What game were you watching?

Petracca had 82% CBA, Oliver 75, viney 57

They were 3’of the 4 mids to get CBAS

Rivers, Langdon, Langford, Salem 0

The only reason they “didn’t attend one together” is because of Pickett The only midfielder we have suited to the modern game

Last year was a ****show but we found something in Rivers and this year he hasn’t gone in once

1 hour ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

We have indeed. It's very sad.

And you're right - a few of them can still play good or very good footy. But not every week.

In fact, I agree with pretty much everything you've said (I'd differ with you slightly and suggest a couple from that list are looking more like liabilities than gently fading stars) but the reason I'm responding is that in the press conference Goodwin seemed to suggest, once again, that he had total faith in this group. He talked about being "in a hurry" to settle the big change in the way we play and then responded to a question about Max and Petracca not having a chance at a second Flag with Melbourne by essentially saying "there's still plenty of time".

I know a lot of people will say "what else would he say?" I'm a bit of a weirdo, though, in that I think you can always take something from a press conference. And this week I realised - Oh, Goodwin still believes what he said earlier in the season: that you can turn situations like this around and then you're off and away. Rather than falling off a cliff, he thinks we're reaching the apex of a very difficult climb and are about to go "weeeee!" down the other side.

So when you said you hope the club is prepared to answer the question of who do we keep, who do we ask to be more adaptable and who do we release, I wonder if we are. If we're sticking with Goodwin, we're sticking with his plan. And part of his plan is absolute belief in a group of players who helped him get the ultimate success.

I can see us making one major change... possibly instigated by a player. Maybe two if it just blows up again like last year. But I can't see us doing the big list shift we obviously need. And the worst part is, if we DID bite the bullet, we'd be getting very little back, picks wise, in a draft widely considered somewhere between mediocre and poor.

I don't like the position we're in. And I think we're in that position because we acted too, slowly. Not on sacking the coach after the second finals failure as some have suggested (although I think the constant refrain that we were a kick away from a second flag or that we lost two finals by a combined total of such and such, or that it was completely down to injuries is complete nonsense). But on demanding that the coach make changes - to the way we play and to the list.

Now the coach is saying "we're in a hurry". Yeah, everyone who procrastinates or kicks unpleasant jobs down the road end up needing to hurry eventually.

Couldn’t have said it better myself and it’s that part about Goodwin genuinely believing that this core is capable of another finals run that worries me more than anything

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Who then ???

Take as long as you like ..

Just whose [censored] job is it to have the team ready, focused and primed for a game ??

Take as long as you like...really. Put that thinking cap on. Not too tight.

Tic toc... tic tic..

The players are responsible for the players kicks at goal.

Especially the experienced players, even more especially, the Premiership players. They’re responsIble.

Doesn’t require a lot of thinking tbh.

Seems very obvious.

Edited July 6Jul 6 by PaulRB

Going at it from a different angle, reckon the Crows also let us off the hook early by their own bombing into F50 instead of hitting up targets, probably due to the pressure around the ground/half forward. When they lowered their eyes they hit up targets all across the ground. Be interesting to see their DE in first Q as opposed to rest of the match. Reckon the scoreboard flattered us tbh, we hung in there on effort but still see the same issues. Fritsch, Petracca, Oliver, Jefferson, Koltyn.....to name a few. Seems like Melksham is the only Melbourne forward who actually leads in the last 15yrs.

2 hours ago, Dee Boys said:

Petracca did play predominantly forward.

Oliver, Petracca and Viney didn’t attend a single centre bounce together.

What game were you watching?

What game were you watching?

3rd centre bounce they were all in there........

13 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

The players are responsible for the players kicks at goal.

Especially the experienced players, even more especially, the Premiership players. They’re responsIble.

Doesn’t require a lot of thinking tbh.

Seems very obvious.

You avoided most of the question.

Goal kicking i agree with essentially.

11 minutes ago, PaulRB said:

The players are responsible for the players kicks at goal.

Especially the experienced players, even more especially, the Premiership players. They’re responsIble.

Doesn’t require a lot of thinking tbh.

Seems very obvious.

What a great out for a coach. Not my problem.

After 4 years of kicking ourselves out of games. 'Gee it sucks we can't kick goals but not my problem'

Our two best kicks at goal are JvR and Disco. Both with great techniques. Contrast that with Gawn, Viney, Petracca.

Make it work ffs. You lose a lot of games if you can't kick straight. And in our case you lose finals.

59 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

TTD ... a very good read.

Apology for grabbing this one paragraph but it does to me highlight the essence of our predicament.

It resonates sorrowfully with the notion of the dumblucked gambler who forever needs that 'one more rool-of-the-dice' .. the winner is just around the corner, the next horse will be that big winner. Just out of arms reach chasing shadows. If only !! This is Melbourne, just hoping it finally clicks into place and all will be right, just another game or two... we'll get it right NEXT season you'll see.

Ahhh Simon from La Mancha ...

And mostly I can't stand this sentiment.

(I fundamentally disagree with the widely held belief that we should look at the Carlton semi-final as a "SO CLOSE!" moment. Collingwood were a very good team and there was no shame in losing to them in the qualifying final. Carlton were and remain a wholly inferior team. Fancy letting Blake Acres kick the winner against you in a game to make a prelim. I nealy vomited when Matt Owies kicked an important goal.)

The problem is, this sentiment is not always wrong.

I remember scoffing at people who told me that at the end of 2020 there were clear signs of strong, meaningful improvement. I saw nothing of the sort. I heard people talking about so many close losses and such a great percentage and "Ooh, only one win outside the eight" or "We won six of the last nine" - and thought they were dreaming. We played every team once for the first time in... what?... ever... and were found wanting. Simple.

And then we won the flag the next year.

Now we're back to that "just one more roll" mentality - but without a 23 year old Oliver, a 25 year old Petracca and Brayshaw, a 26 year old Salem, a 27 year old Viney, a 28 year old Gawn, Fritsch and Lever in WAY better form, Tom McDonald resurgent, without Luke Jackson, Hibberd, Harmes, ANB and Jordon.

In truth, for a long while I thought 2026 might be a one-last shot season. Then I thought it might be a good launching-pad year for a new era. Now I think neither is true. Even if most or all of my original hopes came true - Oliver returning to top fitness, May and Lever staying fit, JVR becoming a solid and dependable key forward, strong improvement from mid-agers like Rivers, Chandler and McVee - we just don't have anywhere near the depth to compete. We're 5 and 11 with a percentage of 86 and Jack Billings is still right on the cusp of selection.

Kozzie, Turner, Langford, Lindsay, Windsor, Bowey, Chandler and Petty give me hope. But hope that we don't become North circa 2018... or worse... St Kilda since 2012. Not the kind of hope Goodwin is hinting at in his press conferences.

16 hours ago, Random Task said:

In Jeffos defence I reckon there was at least 3 times he was clear 20-25metres out in the forward 50 where he would have had an easy shot on goal had any of our players decided to lower their eyes. Halved a few aerial contests as well. Low bar I know but I think I've seen a few snippets to see he's worth persisting with long term.

He's incredibly light and easily out-bodied by most players which doesnt help him when we move the ball as poorly as we do. I think he'll come on but is probably at least 2 years away from seriously contributing at a consistent level.

Smallest big man in tee AFL.

1 hour ago, GM11 said:

Who would you play in the ruck then?

grundy

1 hour ago, GM11 said:

Who would you play in the ruck then?

Here’s an idea.

Why not play one of the 2 actual rucks that are in the twos?

The forward line stuff up happened after we tried to put every man and their dog through the ruck position.

Then it’s been, “ oh he competes well,” or “he gives us something around the ground”. Meanwhile, they are either not in the forward line, or they’re too buggered when they get back there.

1 hour ago, GM11 said:

Who would you play in the ruck then?

If the answer is “there isn’t any other option”, all that does is highlight our poor list management.

Goodwin keeps telling us in pressers that we need to develop our younger players “the right way”, but that we’re “in a hurry” to improve.

How is that going with JVR? Never plays more than about 75% game time, of which a portion is in the ruck, has been dropped a few times, then brought back in without developing a body of form at Casey.

How is rucking him, in his 67-75% of time on the ground, helping him learn how to position/lead as a forward, or work with Petty/Jeffo/Melk, etc?

We drafted AJ to take second ruck minutes so his injury doesn’t help, but he wasn’t exactly dominating when he was in the side. Is rucking JVR really the next best option for our future?

I strongly believe it isn’t, and that some other inferior second ruck option would ultimately be better.

25 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

And mostly I can't stand this sentiment.

(I fundamentally disagree with the widely held belief that we should look at the Carlton semi-final as a "SO CLOSE!" moment. Collingwood were a very good team and there was no shame in losing to them in the qualifying final. Carlton were and remain a wholly inferior team. Fancy letting Blake Acres kick the winner against you in a game to make a prelim. I nealy vomited when Matt Owies kicked an important goal.)

The problem is, this sentiment is not always wrong.

I remember scoffing at people who told me that at the end of 2020 there were clear signs of strong, meaningful improvement. I saw nothing of the sort. I heard people talking about so many close losses and such a great percentage and "Ooh, only one win outside the eight" or "We won six of the last nine" - and thought they were dreaming. We played every team once for the first time in... what?... ever... and were found wanting. Simple.

And then we won the flag the next year.

Now we're back to that "just one more roll" mentality - but without a 23 year old Oliver, a 25 year old Petracca and Brayshaw, a 26 year old Salem, a 27 year old Viney, a 28 year old Gawn, Fritsch and Lever in WAY better form, Tom McDonald resurgent, without Luke Jackson, Hibberd, Harmes, ANB and Jordon.

In truth, for a long while I thought 2026 might be a one-last shot season. Then I thought it might be a good launching-pad year for a new era. Now I think neither is true. Even if most or all of my original hopes came true - Oliver returning to top fitness, May and Lever staying fit, JVR becoming a solid and dependable key forward, strong improvement from mid-agers like Rivers, Chandler and McVee - we just don't have anywhere near the depth to compete. We're 5 and 11 with a percentage of 86 and Jack Billings is still right on the cusp of selection.

Kozzie, Turner, Langford, Lindsay, Windsor, Bowey, Chandler and Petty give me hope. But hope that we don't become North circa 2018... or worse... St Kilda since 2012. Not the kind of hope Goodwin is hinting at in his press conferences.

We've talked much recently , as a group , of Windows opened or shut or somewhere moving in between.

No one talks about the door. If we don't do something soon we may well find the door closing behind us. Much of our game that we lament isn't new. It just shapeshifts a little. We've never really dealt with our dearth of skilled players, our kicking is problematic save for a handful. What is the obsession with pockets 🤔 🤷‍♂️. Do we need team excursions to SpecSavers as our vision is poor. These aren't overnight surprises. It's with no surprise I find myself thinking that those in charge must think , well one of two things, either they will correct themselves... with a few more games or even more worrisome that it's not our real problem. We still are terribly inefficient in the front arc. Ahh just one more season will sort that out... surely.

The 20/21 itself has a few lessons . Not all obvious. We played a game of hold and wait. Denying teams their want to over-run us then counter.. It worked then worked better. It was like watching tides. But even then that almost wasn't enough in 21. The Dogs had experienced this and knew how to deny us. Truth be told imo had it not been for 3 or 4 players executing a number of exceptional acts the game was lost. They did, adrenalin had kicked in and we played out of our skins for the remainder of the game. That only ever works is those 'no tomorrow' games where everything is on the line. They are rarified occasions. Week in week out home & away contests can never replicate this necessity. The bulk of the season needs teams that are equipped with a good complement of skills/abilities and schooled well in sound footy processes.

Waiting for that to fall into place.. .. might as well be waiting for Godot.

Mind the door !!

1 hour ago, GM11 said:

Who would you play in the ruck then?

anyone whos not our full forward

Some shocking stats across the board however nothing changes.

afl.com.au

Monday Cal-culations: The team that doesn't know how to w...

In Monday Cal-culations, Cal Twomey sings the praises of a Richmond stalwart and says the right balance needs to be found when stopping the game for injured players

1 hour ago, GM11 said:

Who would you play in the ruck then?

spargo it would be so funny

Can't justify playing Jefferson, simply gives no effort and looks scared of any contact

Sick of Fritsch, front runner who continues to avoid any contact

Scary part is we have nobody at Casey who can step up

Bonner, Hardie and Campbell are our best at Casey

1 hour ago, DiscoStu17 said:

Here’s an idea.

Why not play one of the 2 actual rucks that are in the twos?

The forward line stuff up happened after we tried to put every man and their dog through the ruck position.

Then it’s been, “ oh he competes well,” or “he gives us something around the ground”. Meanwhile, they are either not in the forward line, or they’re too buggered when they get back there.

It would be interesting to get the stat of the scoring for the period Max was off the ground - I sense it was meaningful, given the minutes involved - although Max lost the hit-outs on the day......might frame this argument well.

no votes for big dan turner no worries! he was clear third best after rankine and may

Adelaide v Melbourne

10 Izak Rankine (ADEL)
6 Steven May (MELB)
5 Kysaiah Pickett (MELB)
5 Ben Keays (ADEL)
4 Jake Soligo (ADEL)

5 hours ago, GM11 said:

Who would you play in the ruck then?

I think many above have made the point. JVR should not be in the side to second ruck if he is being developed to be a key forward. He is just not getting a proper run at it. He may fail but the least we can do is give him a real opportunity. As I said he showed signs which in my opinion were snuffed out by his ruck duties.

I'm not interested in the argument about whether T-Mac should be in the side or not but I really want him to reach his 250 game milestone before he bows out.

Next 4 weeks will determine if Goody should stay or go.

7 minutes ago, Golden fist said:

Next 4 weeks will determine if Goody should stay or go.

I seem to remember this being said 4 weeks ago. A rolling prediction?

9 minutes ago, Robbie57 said:

I think many above have made the point. JVR should not be in the side to second ruck if he is being developed to be a key forward. He is just not getting a proper run at it. He may fail but the least we can do is give him a real opportunity. As I said he showed signs which in my opinion were snuffed out by his ruck duties.

IMHO JVR should only ruck deep forward to enable the real ruck to set up a kick behind in defence.

8 hours ago, beelzebub said:

You might get there, but you're the entre .

Winning Finals football is like Rabbit stew,

First of all catch the bloody rabbit,

No point in beating top 8 sides , or losing by a point or two, If you throw away games against the lower sides.

You need to be in the finals race. And if you are there, then the pressure is on the other side to lose 50 - 50.

Catch the Rabbit, make the final 8 . Wins can look after them selves if you are there in September, we will be on a well deserved break in Bali or somewhere sunny.