We currently have 28 players on the list who are 25 and under, we will hopefully bring in another 4 during the draft including Oscar Berry. To strengthen our list we need to bring in another 4-5, 26+yo players, that would mean trading / delisting at least 8 players to continue the refreshment of the team.

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I dunno, I see this point to a degree but in footy close can be deceiving (ie so close yet so far).

Pies and Lions were likely in heavy training blocks when we played them so we got them at a good time.

A great point that INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, never gets talked about on demonland?!

I wonder why..

Doesn't fit the narrative!

Edited 19 hours ago19 hr by Howard_Grimes

1 minute ago, Howard_Grimes said:

A great point that INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH, never gets talked about in demonland?!

I wonder why..

Doesn't fit the narrative!

It was discussed at the time actually...

3 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

It was discussed at the time actually...

I'm sorry...

The discussion is never about how other clubs fare against us based on their 'training block' or where they're at in their 'loading cycle'.

Never.

It has always been about how it has affected our performance be it an unexpected loss or a spike against a better side.

18 minutes ago, Howard_Grimes said:

I'm sorry...

The discussion is never about how other clubs fare against us based on their 'training block' or where they're at in their 'loading cycle'.

Never.

It has always been about how it has affected our performance be it an unexpected loss or a spike against a better side.

Nah.

It was specifically mentioned in both podcasts before and after those two performances.

11 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Nah.

It was specifically mentioned in both podcasts before and after those two performances.

A huh, my bad. I should have specified that 99% of the time it's about how it affects us.

9 minutes ago, Howard_Grimes said:

A huh, my bad. I should have specified that 99% of the time it's about how it affects us.

It didn't suit your narrative, did it?

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

Does any club get told to delist players more than Melbourne?

20 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

What's damning is that the reality is we're not rebuilding.

Round 1 we had 4 first year players debut for the club. I didn't count Harry Sharp or Matthew Jefferson at all because they have been in the system for a number of year. So 5 in total considering Jeffo hadn't played an AFL game yet.

Two of those players that played their first games were teenagers in Lindsay and Langford, the rest were mature age players.

Since round 1 we've had a combined total of 0 players debut since and we are currently at round 20

Both St Kilda and Carlton have had more players debut this year then Melbourne have. Obviously haven't counted the likes of North, Richmond and Essendon who also have more we have.

We have zero depth coming through and yet even what we have at Casey dont seem to be enough to warrant games.

Our development of players has completely turn to 💩 due to the management of some of our younger players in JVR, Tholstrup, Jefferson and Windsor. Refusal to reward hard work and form at Casey for the likes or Laurie, Culley and Adams.

Watched Calsher Dear last night and even Logan Morris this year and both are only in their 2nd year of AFL level and yet their impact they're making at senior level is remarkable because their respected coaches just continue to back them in and play them week in, week out.

I see poor Jefferson has been dropped tonight and yet every single Melbourne supporter know that will completely rock his confidence. Perfect opportunity this time of the year being a dead rubber and nothing to play for just to continuing to get games into him while we can.

Agree 1 million % Dazz and this is all down to our clueless inept coach. The sooner he goes the better for MFC!

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by picket fence

6 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

It didn't suit your narrative, did it?

One would think that if 'loading' played such a significant role and determined certain results throughout a home and away campaign, we'd be hearing a whole lot about all clubs. Not just ours.

So no, it's not about a narrative that I hold. If it were a 50/50 split of who it affected, do you think I'd say boo?

The reason I bite back is because it seems to be about us almost entirely every time. (save the 1% that you've noted). And it's spoken about conveniently when we spike after a shock loss A LOT!

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by Howard_Grimes

Whilst we're on the 'loading' or 'fitness issue', I have a question for those who think it is a strong contributor..

Given the myriad of post-round analysis television and talk-back radio shows within the sport, please tell me why these contributing factors aren't talked about in the same vein as they are on demonland?

Genuine question? Like, seriously? What are your answers?

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by Howard_Grimes

It is no good having a team rebuild unless you get rid of the coach and assistant. Goody does not have the balls to drop keys players when they are not performing. What message does it send to younger players who know they are going to be overlooked at best they are only going to become an emergency. Our club selected the players in the first place and therefore are responsible for their development and well being. Reserves football sometimes disguises a player's ability to play their best. If we are not winning we have to take chances on players like Adams, Pup, Sestan and Kentfield.

Put father son Nick/Josh Daicos into Melbourne and we win minimum two more flags!

Father/Son is luck. Pies have done other things well but no Daicos brothers no 23 flag and wouldn’t be on top this year.

No Ashcrofts or Fletcher last year and Lions probably don’t make it.

Take Ablett, Scarlett & Hawkins out of Geelong.

Melbourne need to get close to everything right as a smaller club! We need to improve

• Trading

• Skill development

• Fitness

• Goal kicking

• Coaching

• Board & Football club management

Collingwood, Richmond, Carlton, Essendon & Hawthorn big supporter bases and cash!

Geelong so many advantages it’s not funny.

Interstate clubs have a range of advantages from academies up north to only 2 teams in football states in SA & WA!

Demons are stuck with Saints, North & Dogs who have lucked out with father son!

Hopefully Smith is a very good Chairman and Guerra is a good CEO!

White junior makes it to Melbourne and becomes a gun!

One or two trades they work out and maximise our draft selections and team can start to turnaround!

6 hours ago, BW511 said:

We’ve traded in Ed Langdon, Brodie Grundy and Lachie Hunter since 2019.

They could be considered walk up starts but we didn’t play Grundy so I’m not so sure where that leaves us.

How the hell do we find 4 in 12-24 months?

It’s not currency related, it’s getting 4 separate good players interested

Getting 1 solid 22 player is hard enough..let alone 4 of them. It will be near impossible IMO so its off to the draft unfortunately. If we could 2-3 first rounders for any combo of Trac, Clarry, Lever, May and Fritta, then you just have to take it.

This is where Hawks were ruthless and just got on with business. If we try to make our next list include any of these blokes, then it will only slow down our rejuvenation efforts. I completely understand the difficulty it will be moving these players on, but there are a lot of clubs that are peppering on success looking out for any one of these blokes to make a difference and get them a chance at a final.

North, Essendon, Bulldogs will be the clubs id be speaking to for anyone of these players. Fritta has a lot more appeal but it would be hard to get a first rounder coming back.

6 hours ago, ANG13 said:

I am not so sure the FD does know where we are at.

Which is when you end up like West Coast.

7 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Which is when you end up like West Coast.

Yep spot on.

I am looking forward to the off season but at the same time I am scared. We need to make changes but I don’t have faith in the people in charge making the right decisions.

1 hour ago, Howard_Grimes said:

One would think that if 'loading' played such a significant role and determined certain results throughout a home and away campaign, we'd be hearing a whole lot about all clubs. Not just ours.

So no, it's not about a narrative that I hold. If it were a 50/50 split of who it affected, do you think I'd say boo?

The reason I bite back is because it seems to be about us almost entirely every time. (save the 1% that you've noted). And it's spoken about conveniently when we spike after a shock loss A LOT!

There’s a recent podcast with Burgess who said it’s very rare that you can have a heavy loading period during the year. He referenced Sydney last year that had top 4 wrapt up early as the opportunity to do that in season.

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I dunno, I see this point to a degree but in footy close can be deceiving (ie so close yet so far).

Pies and Lions were likely in heavy training blocks when we played them so we got them at a good time.

Swans we beat at our home ground, not theirs and also got them at their lowest point ie also at a good time. Play them this week and I think we lose.

Crows started poorly then ran all over us and we could not stop them. Same as the Suns game, whenever we threatened they put the foot down and we couldn't keep up.

The worst thing a club can do is incorrectly evaluate their list/where they are at. Thinking we are just one or two players away is I think foolish and will see us end up like West Coast in another year or two.

"Likely in heavy training blocks".

Crows "ran all over us and we could not stop them".

FFS the revisionism on here is so tiresome.

Can't we just acknowledge that at times this year we've actually played good footy? Do we have to try to downplay anything that went well this year just to suit a broader anti-Goodwin or pro-major change narrative?

There's nothing at all wrong with saying "yep, we played great in those games, but the inconsistency which has seen us also lose to St Kilda, North, Essendon and Carlton more than outweighs those good games, and means it's dangerous to assume we're close to being good again"?

FWIW, Adelaide has one loss at home all year, which was to Geelong in Round 5. The closest anyone else has come is Brisbane (5 point loss). We're second closest, with a 13 point loss. Their score of 90 against us was their only score in the last month which is less than 100 (which includes games vs the Dogs at Marvel and Gold Coast, who themselves are in form). And they only outscored us in the second half by 3 scoring shots and 3 goals (8.4 to our 5.4).

Edited 13 hours ago13 hr by titan_uranus

23 hours ago, Go Ds said:

Umm, but did they? I already asked this. Collingwood might have gone backwards one step due to losing one or both of those players. But if the introduction of the likes of McRae, Nick Daicos and Bobby Hill moved moved them forward FOUR steps it would be easy to overlook that overall Collingwood moved three rather than four steps forward and that Grundy and Treloar's moving on were actually mistakes.

Anyway, I expect some upheaval come our finals-less September. Hopefully this will be done by competent people showing due diligence.

They moved on Treloar in 2020, Grundy in 21, made a prelim in 22 and a flag in 23.

So no it didn't hurt them and the cap space opened up allowed them to get guys like Bobby Hill in, for example.

They managed themselves very well after a mini disaster, yes. That's the point. They adapted and didn't sit still.

Macrae's a great coach, I agree. They knew their old coach was cooked and moved him on. Maybe we should too.

10 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

"Likely in heavy training blocks".

Crows "ran all over us and we could not stop them".

FFS the revisionism on here is so tiresome.

Can't we just acknowledge that at times this year we've actually played good footy? Do we have to try to downplay anything that went well this year just to suit a broader anti-Goodwin or pro-major change narrative?

There's nothing at all wrong with saying "yep, we played great in those games, but the inconsistency which has seen us also lose to St Kilda, North, Essendon and Carlton more than outweighs those good games, and means it's dangerous to assume we're close to being good again"?

FWIW, Adelaide has one loss at home all year, which was to Geelong in Round 5. The closest anyone else has come is Brisbane (5 point loss). We're second closest, with a 13 point loss. Their score of 90 against us was their only score in the last month which is less than 100 (which includes games vs the Dogs at Marvel and Gold Coast, who themselves are in form). And they only outscored us in the second half by 3 scoring shots and 3 goals (8.4 to our 5.4).

In previous years I believe some of our mid year performances were impacted by heavy training blocks, it's fair to assume other teams at the top of the ladder have similar midyear programs. Yes we played well in those games, doesn't take away from the fact our opponents weren't at their best. If we played Brisbane or Sydney today what do you think the result would be? Let's see how we go against Collingwood in the final round.

We came out of the blocks against the Crows but from midway through the 2nd it was basically one way traffic with them kicking 8 of 9 goals. After that they held us at arms length for the rest of the match. I wouldn't be hanging my hat on that performance. We only lost to the Suns by 19 as well, doesn't make it a good performance.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by Dr. Gonzo