Brad Miller boots 6 for Sandringham!

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

The people are just so friendly around here!

Ok try and stay with me, if I can find the damn article on Bell I will. Basically the club nearly gave up on him ok? He was injured constantly poor form etc. They didnt give up they stuck with him through all of it and he has COME GOOD THIS YEAR.

Miller is only 2 YEARS OLDER, great for Bell he has come good earlier, my point is that we stuck it out with Bell even though we nearly gave up and he came good MILLER can do the same

[Jaded No More 68,937]

The people are just so friendly around here!

Ok try and stay with me, if I can find the damn article on Bell I will. Basically the club nearly gave up on him ok? He was injured constantly poor form etc. They didnt give up they stuck with him through all of it and he has COME GOOD THIS YEAR.

Miller is only 2 YEARS OLDER, great for Bell he has come good earlier, my point is that we stuck it out with Bell even though we nearly gave up and he came good MILLER can do the same

Please find the article where he said the club nearly gave up on him... I'd be really interested to read that since I know for a fact that the club had every belief in his ability even while he was injured and struggling.

I think in the article you're talking about, Bell said that he himself had no confidence but that with more game time, and no injuries, his confidence has grown. I don't remember reading anything about anyone 'giving up'.

Lets put it another way...

In 2001 (that's 6 years ago) we drafted:

9- Luke Molan

25- Steven Armstrong

26- Aaron Rogers

55- Brad Miller

Please count for me how many of these 4 are still on our list. In fact, only 50% are still on an actual AFL list.

So to say we are giving up on him, or that he hasn't been given plenty of opportunity is just silly.

Btw, I realised I made a mistake about Miller and Rivers being drafted the same year. Rivers was drafted a year later.

[deanox 9,928]

The people are just so friendly around here!

Ok try and stay with me, if I can find the damn article on Bell I will. Basically the club nearly gave up on him ok? He was injured constantly poor form etc. They didnt give up they stuck with him through all of it and he has COME GOOD THIS YEAR.

Miller is only 2 YEARS OLDER, great for Bell he has come good earlier, my point is that we stuck it out with Bell even though we nearly gave up and he came good MILLER can do the same

but we have already stuck with miller LONGER than we stuck with bell! he hasnt been out injured, he just hasnt played well. simply put he is not as good a footballer.

i think he has some great attributes and could make a consistent performer but stop trying to say that he will be a superstar. and stop saying that we gave bell more chances. because he wont be and we havnt.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

Why is just because u disagree with me I have to shutup? I give up I am retiring from this site. Miller sucks total loser he is whatever

[Jaded No More 68,937]

Why is just because u disagree with me I have to shutup? I give up I am retiring from this site. Miller sucks total loser he is whatever

Nobody told you to shut up, but this is generally how things go.

You put forward your opinion, people will argue, and you have to back it up with something.... stats, evidence, anything.

Simply saying the same thing over and over doesn't actually make it true or win you credibility, it just makes you... well, Yze_Magic!

[deanox 9,928]

it just makes you... well, Yze_Magic!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

and what a fantastic 3000th post!

[old55 23,598]

Everyone seems to forget he was everywhere in our final against Fremantle, that game has stuck in my mind cos he was our shining star and clear best on ground. Thats what he can be all the time and I believe that.

Subi is a very long ground and particularly suits Miller's big workrate and his ability to keep presenting on the lead up the field. Other grounds don't have the same length. Miller did play well in that game, he took 14 marks but many of them were a long way from goal and his indecision and inability to pass possession to an MFC player further up the ground made him relatively ineffective, despite his big numbers. It would be a long search to find a team who lost when their CHF took 14 marks.

I think it's no coincidence that we have won the past two games with Miller not at CHF. I'm not saying that's the whole explanation by any means, but it's a factor. Miller is not the answer at CHF, that's unfortunate because he's got the right body shape for the traditional power forward role in that position. I think we need to get over it. If he didn't have the character and work ethic he has then I'd have no problems with a trade or de-list, but he has something we lack and we should try hard to find his niche. BTW, that doesn't include the suggestion made elsewhere of playing him in the midfield - he's has very limited skills when the ball hits the ground.

[demon magik 0]

Simply saying the same thing over and over doesn't actually make it true or win you credibility, it just makes you... well, Yze_Magic!

that just about sums it up....

great 3,000th post i second that ...

absolutely awsume jaded ...

[CHAMP 347]

Subi is a very long ground and particularly suits Miller's big workrate and his ability to keep presenting on the lead up the field.

Old, you should cast your mind further back than the final against Freo last year. It has coloured your judgement. In fact over his other 6 games at Subiaco Miller has averaged 2.7 kicks, 4.3 handballs, 3.3 marks and half a tackle. These stats are about 30% down on his career average output. He plays the ground no better.

[demonfanjezza 1]

Can this thread end?

[Deano74 156]

Amazing how things can change in a week.

[old55 23,598]

Old, you should cast your mind further back than the final against Freo last year. It has coloured your judgement. In fact over his other 6 games at Subiaco Miller has averaged 2.7 kicks, 4.3 handballs, 3.3 marks and half a tackle. These stats are about 30% down on his career average output. He plays the ground no better.

Fair enough Champ - good research. My explanation for why he played "well" in that final at Subi is because the ground suits him, the fact that he didn't play well there before does not necessarily negate that - he may have been playing in the backline on Pavlich or just played poorly at CHF - not unusual for him. I'm happy for you to come up with an alternative explanation - one I don't buy is that it proves he can play CHF generally.

[deanox 9,928]

i wonder how many threads in the history of demonland have had this many posts?

old fwiw i agree with you on this one. he did play well then, and that sort of ground suits him. he is least suited to geelong, adelaide and sydney (and i spose TD). the problem is while he may have played good games, he has never influenced a result has he? (with the possible exception of that game against richmond, however even that day neita booted 6 goals, two more than he). miller looks like he could get 15 touches and kick a couple and be servicable. i think thats a key point.

EDIT: in that game against richmond, robertson also kicked 2 goals 5 behinds, so it was a pretty good day for our tall forwards. however miller managed to pick up 2 brownlow votes. (although nathan brown picked up 3 votes with 21 disposals and a goal, while cam bruce had the pill 33 times for the 1 vote)

[BrownlowBruce 1]

Nobody told you to shut up, but this is generally how things go.

You put forward your opinion, people will argue, and you have to back it up with something.... stats, evidence, anything.

Simply saying the same thing over and over doesn't actually make it true or win you credibility, it just makes you... well, Yze_Magic!

putting bell iin ur best every week doesnt win u credibility either... nor make it true,

like it or not jaded... miller is on our list and has another 11 games to continue to play good footy he has been one of our best in the harder games this year.... taking into account he has not been all that consistant tho .. we know... either has melbourne

its just an opinion if miller is in our best 22, right now he will have to earn back a spot

lets see how he goes...

personally i think he will make alot of people in this thread look like fools.

[deanox 9,928]

putting bell iin ur best every week doesnt win u credibility either... nor make it true,

but bell has been amongst our best most of this year? except the WC game of course, where it is safe to say we didnt need to list a best...

miller has been in our best prob 3 times this year as well. but when he hasnt been listed in our best he has been horrible-not getting a touch at all and making terrible decisions. when bell hasnt been in our best couple he has still played a servicable game and had not many kicked on him.

[Harcourt 146]

Put Bate at CHF - the bloke has sticky hands, is versatile and can kick a mile.

Leave Miller at Sandy and try and get a third/fourth/fifth round pick for him at the end of the season. He is done IMO.

His puts in 100% effort and should be comended for that but he is at his most damaging in positions on the field where he can do no damage (ie the wing).

I don't think any opposition coach worries when he takes a mark on the wing as they know he won't hurt them with a precision kick to a leading forward.

[BrownlowBruce 1]

but bell has been amongst our best most of this year? except the WC game of course, where it is safe to say we didnt need to list a best...

miller has been in our best prob 3 times this year as well. but when he hasnt been listed in our best he has been horrible-not getting a touch at all and making terrible decisions. when bell hasnt been in our best couple he has still played a servicable game and had not many kicked on him.

thats not my point... my point is jaded... to often loses credibility IMO with extreme biest opinions... on bell especially

which is natural... but none the less... my point is as stands

[occo 2]

Please find the article where he said the club nearly gave up on him... I'd be really interested to read that since I know for a fact that the club had every belief in his ability even while he was injured and struggling.

I think in the article you're talking about, Bell said that he himself had no confidence but that with more game time, and no injuries, his confidence has grown. I don't remember reading anything about anyone 'giving up'.

Lets put it another way...

In 2001 (that's 6 years ago) we drafted:

9- Luke Molan

25- Steven Armstrong

26- Aaron Rogers

55- Brad Miller

Please count for me how many of these 4 are still on our list. In fact, only 50% are still on an actual AFL list.

So to say we are giving up on him, or that he hasn't been given plenty of opportunity is just silly.

Btw, I realised I made a mistake about Miller and Rivers being drafted the same year. Rivers was drafted a year later.

What a bad recruiting year. Miller is a hack. I have less confidence in him than i did with Holland 3 years ago. I dont understand why people keep backing this guy. He has shocking decision making skills - infact worse than some VFL players. He cant mark. He cant trap a ball thats on the ground (and if people say thats cause of his size look at Jonothen Brown and rethink ur decision). He doesent tackle...kick goals and handballs at every chance which half the time he makes suck bad contact with the ball that the teammates becomes under pressure.

I am really fed up with him and hope to god ND has the balls to delist him allowing Dunn or Bate to become a CHF. Not every CHF needs to have the height and weight of Miller and john Brown. Whats important at CHF is to be able to operate in the midfield and kick goals. Both bate and dunn can do this.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

thats not my point... my point is jaded... to often loses credibility IMO with extreme biest opinions... on bell especially

which is natural... but none the less... my point is as stands

Jaded is entitled to her opinion and I dont always agree with her.

But more often than not her posts are on or close to the money.

I have found nothing extreme about her posts and admire her thoughtful passion.

Her comments on Bell are pretty accurate too.

I actually find grammatically challenged posts lacking alot of credibility.

[deanox 9,928]

I actually find grammatically challenged posts lacking alot of credibility.

im glad i wasn't the only person who had to read that post a couple of times.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Hello everybody. Everyone at this party had picked up their drinks and sausage rolls and come into THIS room, and I was wondering where you'd all gone, so I thought I'd pop my head in the door and see what all the Hubbub was al about.

I almost never read or write on Miller threads. Not because they upset me or anything, they just get VERY boring.

Nut I found this post summed up my feelings.

Miller is not the answer at CHF, that's unfortunate because he's got the right body shape for the traditional power forward role in that position. I think we need to get over it. If he didn't have the character and work ethic he has then I'd have no problems with a trade or de-list, but he has something we lack and we should try hard to find his niche.

It's no longer a case of will Miller play forward or back, and what do we do to get him to play like the star we THOUGHT he was. It's been proven that he's not as good a footballer as our most pessimistic members had predicted. So what does that mean? Will the fact that he was once in the leadership group make it impossible for him to be able to just quietly disappear and become a depth player? Does he have to reassess his goals as a footballer? Do we just retain him in Benny's role for the next 10 years? Do we trade him since he's young? To be honest, I'd be very gunshy about delisting or trading young KP forwards. That's not to say I wouldn't do it. And old, I hope you're sentiments carry and that he does find a niche where he's not a liability for 12 games a year. It would be GREAT for everyone to get off his back. But in the end, if he were delisted, I'd understand.

[Jarka 767]

I actually find grammatically challenged posts lacking alot of credibility.

Interesting comment. There are many reasons why someone's grammar may not be up to your standards, perhaps English is his/her second (or even third) language, which may explain their errors. So with that in mind are you telling me that someone from a non-English speaking background lacks credibility?

[Jarka 767]

It would be GREAT for everyone to get off his back.

IMHO Daniher is to blame for the continuing Miller threads and the reason is that we are all aware of what he is and isn't capable of, the problem is that he gets opportunity after opportunity but other players who alot of supporters believe have more talent aren't given the same go.

[Jaded No More 68,937]

thats not my point... my point is jaded... to often loses credibility IMO with extreme biest opinions... on bell especially

which is natural... but none the less... my point is as stands

Oh well, you don't have to agree or respect my comments, that is the beauty of this site.

The point I made is that you can stick up for the players (and I have been one of Miller's biggest supporters), but you need to be able to back up your statements. Having a cry because somebody doesn't agree with you is something you should probably stop doing when you reach the age of 6.

And you find me a game where I put Bell in the best when he wasn't deserving of it. As others have said, he has been one of our best and most consistent performers this year.

Interesting comment. There are many reasons why someone's grammar may not be up to your standards, perhaps English is his/her second (or even third) language, which may explain their errors. So with that in mind are you telling me that someone from a non-English speaking background lacks credibility?

English is not my first language, but surely it isn't too much to expect people to not type as if they are writing an SMS. I find full-stops and new paragraphs to be extremely helpful.

Also, if you use Firefox, you can download a spell-checker for free.

As for this thread, can we just let it go already?

[Jarka 767]

English is not my first language, but surely it isn't too much to expect people to not type as if they are writing an SMS.

That clearly wasn't SMS language, no idea what it was but it definitely wasn't SMS talk.