4 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

I really don’t understand this Viney’s deal was a sugar hit report from Barrett. The Roos were after him, Clarkson sounded him out in a press conference, he was our best mid by a street this year, won our B&F and clearly would’ve wanted an extension for his family security and used the Roos and other interest to get himself the best deal. If the club waits another week to announce it so it doesn’t look like it’s coming off the back of the Trac stuff what difference does that make? Are they suggesting Viney’s letter wasn’t genuine? Rubbish!

The same reporter claiming Viney’s extension was PR stunt was leading the charge on him going to the Roos until the extension was signed. There’s plenty of negatives floating around about us at the moment, and there’ll be more after the review is done but this is a completely transparent media beat up. 

I love Viney, and yes he won the BnF in a horrible year (personally thought Gawn was significantly better) but he's 30 and his stats were trending down this year and we gave him an extra two years when he still had a year to go on his contract. Personally I would have given him one extra year for the security as a reward for his loyalty not two.

7 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

I love Viney, and yes he won the BnF in a horrible year (personally thought Gawn was significantly better) but he's 30 and his stats were trending down this year and we gave him an extra two years when he still had a year to go on his contract. Personally I would have given him one extra year for the security as a reward for his loyalty not two.

Trending downwards?! What rubbish. This was his best year by a street. He’s improved his kicking, his pressure is immense, he’s great at the contest, quicker than he’s been on the outside and improved his ability to rotate through the forwardline. 3 more years is exactly right. 

7 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

Trending downwards?! What rubbish. This was his best year by a street. He’s improved his kicking, his pressure is immense, he’s great at the contest, quicker than he’s been on the outside and improved his ability to rotate through the forwardline. 3 more years is exactly right. 

Compared to his own record? Yes he was. For comparison hes the same age as Jones was in 2018 who's form dropped off substantially the following year and within two years was struggling to get selected.

58 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Compared to his own record? Yes he was. For comparison hes the same age as Jones was in 2018 who's form dropped off substantially the following year and within two years was struggling to get selected.

His career average disposals was 22.6 vs 21 this year, but his handballs went down from 12.2 to 9.8 while his kicks went UP from 10.4 to 11.2, this was because he was playing a different role in the midfield, rather than being the extractor he was on the end of chains kicking the ball. His marks were basically the same at 2.6 vs 2.8, his tackles went UP from 5.8 to 6.2 (both ELITE) his totally clearances basically the same 4.6 vs 4.9. He kicked one more goal and one less behind and his kicking efficiency was up. That’s not trending down my friend, that’s a slightly different role.

If your argument is we should’ve haggled over one more season with our VC, 3x B&F and best mid for the season I hardly see how that proves that it was a confected feel good story, North would’ve given him 4 years in a heartbeat, as would many other teams.

 

Edited October 15, 2024Oct 15 by deejammin'

34 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

His career average disposals was 22.6 vs 21 this year, but his handballs went down from 12.2 to 9.8 while his kicks went UP from 10.4 to 11.2, this was because he was playing a different role in the midfield, rather than being the extractor he was on the end of chains kicking the ball. His marks were basically the same at 2.6 vs 2.8, his tackles went UP from 5.8 to 6.2 (both ELITE) his totally clearances basically the same 4.6 vs 4.9. He kicked one more goal and one less behind and his kicking efficiency was up. That’s not trending down my friend, that’s a slightly different role.

If you’re Argument is we should’ve haggled over one more season with our VC, 3x B&F and best mid for the season  I hardly see how that proves that it was a feel good story, North would’ve given him 4 years in a heartbeat, as would many other teams.

 

Career averages are a bit of a misnomer as players tend to have a bit of a bell curve over their career as they go from their early years to their prime to their twilight. Viney has also struggled a lot with injuries throughout his career which has affected his performance in some seasons. I haven't seen any significant change in his role between the flag and this year but maybe I'm missing something.

Looking at Viney's recent years and you can see his 2024 was trending downwards from the previous two years. Not massively, but it was there. He's still a good player but the signs are there. No one beats father time.

He's over 30 as a crash and bash midfielder. For those guys when the end comes it comes fast. We've signed him up until the end of 2028, which is a long time for a player of his age and type. He will be 34 when the deal finishes up and I would be very surprised if he's able to keep up to the AFL level for three years let alone four.

North may have offered him the same amount but that's what you often have to do if you want to extract a player out of their club. Ultimately we still had him signed up for another year so there wasn't any need to get spooked by the North offer and we still could have given him another year or two as a sweetener, but not three. I think we blinked to put the story to bed when the club was under the pump.

Edited October 15, 2024Oct 15 by KozzyCan

47 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Career averages are a bit of a misnomer as players tend to have a bit of a bell curve over their career as they go from their early years to their prime to their twilight. Viney has also struggled a lot with injuries throughout his career which has affected his performance in some seasons. I haven't seen any significant change in his role between the flag and this year but maybe I'm missing something.

Looking at Viney's recent years and you can see his 2024 was trending downwards from the previous two years. Not massively, but it was there. He's still a good player but the signs are there. No one beats father time.

He's over 30 as a crash and bash midfielder. For those guys when the end comes it comes fast. We've signed him up until the end of 2028, which is a long time for a player of his age and type. He will be 34 when the deal finishes up and I would be very surprised if he's able to keep up to the AFL level for three years let alone four.

North may have offered him the same amount but that's what you often have to do if you want to extract a player out of their club. Ultimately we still had him signed up for another year so there wasn't any need to get spooked by the North offer and we still could have given him another year or two as a sweetener, but not three. I think we blinked to put the story to bed when the club was under the pump.

Agree to disagree. Let’s revisit it in a couple of years. I think he’ll be one of our best players and most important leaders for the whole period of this contract. Let’s see.

if i wanted to weed out a leak i would tell people goodwin and jones met and then tell people different cafe names and see which one morris ran with....

2 minutes ago, biggestred said:

if i wanted to weed out a leak i would tell people goodwin and jones met and then tell people different cafe names and see which one morris ran with....

Isn't that what Essendon did? Then once they worked out the leaker they told him Hird had been sacked and let Caro make a fool of herself.

feel good story and gives supports the warm and fuzzy feeling bit like making Green the Chairman....just stops the great unwashed from being upset at the disaster that the club has become.

9 minutes ago, Fuchsias Forever said:

feel good story and gives supports the warm and fuzzy feeling bit like making Green the Chairman....just stops the great unwashed from being upset at the disaster that the club has become.

Definitely no relation to Confucius, me thinks...

5 minutes ago, Fuchsias Forever said:

feel good story and gives supports the warm and fuzzy feeling bit like making Green the Chairman....just stops the great unwashed from being upset at the disaster that the club has become.

Please elaborate on the disaster? Issues, sure. 
But we have strong membership, our attendance is regularly in the top 5-7 in the league, we’re financially solvent and in a much better position than the debt demotion days, our brand was ranked the sixth most valuable across AFL and NRL, we’re at the business case stage for FINALLY getting a home base, our AFL team is the most consistently competitive we’ve had since the late 80s/90s and we won a premiership, we pioneered AFLW and have a premiership there too and our VFL program has been consistently strong with a premiership also, only failing when the seniors have injuries. 
What is the disaster? A board split? An unpopular CEO? Someone leaking against the unpopular CEO? Ex employees suing us? That’s bad, sure, we need to fix it and restore unity but most clubs have similar things going on, surely a disaster was what we were when Jackson took over, we’re nowhere near that!

4 hours ago, rufus said:

This is a good point, and ultimately I reckon it's the key reason why we ended up with 1 flag and no more from this group.

If you add Oliver to the 5 you've listed, I reckon we have 1 in that group who is both a good enough player and good enough leader to drag the team over the line in big games. I reckon another 2 seem to be great leaders but probably just not quite good enough players. And the other 3 who are good enough players but who just don't have the leadership qualities. At the end of the day, a club can do everything possible off the field, but ultimately it's only the guys that go out on the field that can drive the final result.

But leadership is beyond performance. Max can move mountains, but he can’t inspire a group to maintain their professionalism or minimise their ego to achieve success.

19 hours ago, BW511 said:

The 300 that attend the B&F are certainly in the minority of supporters

Yes, you are right, I didn't hear them whining.

I would be delighted to have Nathan Jones back at the Demons in an assistant coaching and/or leadership role.

 

1 hour ago, deejammin' said:

Agree to disagree. Let’s revisit it in a couple of years. I think he’ll be one of our best players and most important leaders for the whole period of this contract. Let’s see.

Handshake agreement and witnessed (screenshotted) 

On 14/10/2024 at 11:02, Ethan Tremblay said:

Hi Nev, Jones was Head Coach of the boys team at Peninsula Grammar School this season. I also think that he would’ve played a big part in mentoring and providing on-field leadership and coaching to Clarry, Petracca and Brayshaw. 

Out of idle interest looked up the team results - (it's my old school), 7 losses 1 win over Marcelin by a goal. I still think Nathan has a clue about what is going on though.

On 14/10/2024 at 03:55, waynewussell said:

Jonesy was often underestimated during his playing career... nothing's changed!

My view is that Jonesy like Green brings the Demon spirit back to Melbourne.

whatever that means. 

Probably hasn't had his contract renewed at 7, hence shopping around for opportunities