On 06/10/2024 at 04:46, dazzledavey36 said:

My top 5 Phantom draft.

Richmond: Sam Lalor

North: Finn O'Sullivan 

West Coast: Jagga Smith

Adelaide: Sid Draper

Melbourne: Harvey Langford 

If we get Langford I believe we’ll be very happy 

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by Roost it far

  On 06/10/2024 at 00:42, The Jackson FIX said:

Battle is a few years younger and is ‘rarer’ in terms of the position he plays.  Stk looked after a bit with the compo, yes, but the contrast to what we’ll get for Nibbler isn’t outrageous 

I just think the system is currently interesting for clubs. I’ve always felt like historically clubs have offered contracts to avoid FA taking someone away. If the compensation is going to be considerably better than what someone would get in a trade it might swing back the other way a bit, and make FA more attractive to everyone to explore. Might be the reasoning behind the consistent overs on compensation.

You never want to lose your top 5 players to FA, but perhaps after that it becomes more attractive.

  On 06/10/2024 at 01:09, Deemania since 56 said:

Improved coaching and player development initiatives (combined) must be called upon to better those who we pick up within our 'allocated' priorities- and those that we take specifically for 'development' down the track. 

Is that a quote Deemania or is this your observations, either way very good.

Bloos have put their F1 & F2 on the table for GCS' pick 13

  On 06/10/2024 at 06:43, adonski said:

Bloos have put their F1 & F2 on the table for GCS' pick 13

Cripes that's serious coin if they finish outside the 8

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by Roost it far

  On 06/10/2024 at 06:46, Roost it far said:

Cripes that's serious coin if they finish outside the 8

Our F1 would hold some serious value in the eyes of some clubs too.

  On 06/10/2024 at 06:43, adonski said:

Bloos have put their F1 & F2 on the table for GCS' pick 13

Is that allowed?

I thought there were still rules in place for future pick trading. Unless they've changed it recently it was that if you traded a f1 then you couldn't trade any other picks in subsequent rounds. Conversely, if you traded a f2, you could trade as much as you like in later future rounds but you couldn't trade your f1 unless you replaced it with another f1.

  On 06/10/2024 at 06:54, Nascent said:

Is that allowed?

I thought there were still rules in place for future pick trading. Unless they've changed it recently it was that if you traded a f1 then you couldn't trade any other picks in subsequent rounds. Conversely, if you traded a f2, you could trade as much as you like in later future rounds but you couldn't trade your f1 unless you replaced it with another f1.

Theyre gonna trade pick 34 for a F2 accordingly to the article

  On 06/10/2024 at 06:54, adonski said:

Theyre gonna trade pick 34 for a F2 accordingly to the article

We trump with that with F1 and 28 this year 

  On 06/10/2024 at 06:54, Nascent said:

Is that allowed?

I thought there were still rules in place for future pick trading. Unless they've changed it recently it was that if you traded a f1 then you couldn't trade any other picks in subsequent rounds. Conversely, if you traded a f2, you could trade as much as you like in later future rounds but you couldn't trade your f1 unless you replaced it with another f1.

Depends who's asking.  In the Animal Farm League, some clubs are more equal than others. 

A good argument to send to GC is don’t deal pick 13 to a club that’s going to use it on Houston.

If they deal it to Coll or Carlton they’ll get Houston and he probably moves their ladder position for their future first by a couple of spots.

Meanwhile, we’ll use it on a kid who won’t impact our ladder finish!

Wishful thinking? Maybe? But worth raising it 

  On 06/10/2024 at 07:31, Kevin dyson said:

We trump with that with F1 and 28 this year 

That would be risky.

  On 06/10/2024 at 03:32, dazzledavey36 said:

We'll pick off the remaining player off this list in Lalor, Smith, FOS, Langford and Draper.

I’d be shocked if we took Jagga and surprised if we took Draper. Look at the quotes from the age article.

On Smith:

 The general view is that he is, perhaps, not as talented or damaging as some in this range.
 

On Draper:

Draper’s kicking skills and decision-making are considered a tad below some of the best midfielders in this crop.

I reckon the Kako mail might be real (of course it probably gets matched) but failing that we go hard for a tall or even someone like Travaglia 

  On 06/10/2024 at 10:01, DeeSpencer said:

I’d be shocked if we took Jagga and surprised if we took Draper. Look at the quotes from the age article.

On Smith:

 The general view is that he is, perhaps, not as talented or damaging as some in this range.
 

On Draper:

Draper’s kicking skills and decision-making are considered a tad below some of the best midfielders in this crop.

I reckon the Kako mail might be real (of course it probably gets matched) but failing that we go hard for a tall or even someone like Travaglia 

Trading down a few spots, perhaps with the Don's, may be a play

Will also give us more picks to play with, to try and grab GCS' P13

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by adonski

  On 06/10/2024 at 10:01, DeeSpencer said:

I’d be shocked if we took Jagga and surprised if we took Draper. Look at the quotes from the age article.

On Smith:

 The general view is that he is, perhaps, not as talented or damaging as some in this range.
 

On Draper:

Draper’s kicking skills and decision-making are considered a tad below some of the best midfielders in this crop.

I reckon the Kako mail might be real (of course it probably gets matched) but failing that we go hard for a tall or even someone like Travaglia 

You do realise every draftee has faults and deficiencies that will need improving coming into an AFL system right..

  On 06/10/2024 at 10:05, dazzledavey36 said:

You do realise every draftee has faults and deficiencies that will need improving coming into an AFL system right..

Sure, but Jason Taylor’s never drafted a small mid unless you count Laurie.

Draper has a good solid frame and some strength but if he’s not rated as a good ball user he better be a great inside player, not sure he is.

Jagga’s small, light frame, doesn’t break lines with pace, doesn’t have a dangerous kick. What’s his weapon? Nice balance, nice hands, runs hard but most AFL players do that.

It’s less about weaknesses and more about lack of strengths. JT’s early picks have generally targeted guys with rare traits.

  On 06/10/2024 at 10:41, DeeSpencer said:

Sure, but Jason Taylor’s never drafted a small mid unless you count Laurie.

Draper has a good solid frame and some strength but if he’s not rated as a good ball user he better be a great inside player, not sure he is.

Jagga’s small, light frame, doesn’t break lines with pace, doesn’t have a dangerous kick. What’s his weapon? Nice balance, nice hands, runs hard but most AFL players do that.

It’s less about weaknesses and more about lack of strengths. JT’s early picks have generally targeted guys with rare traits.

I think Baz Laurie was originally drafted as a small fwd/flanker

He was given the Chandler treatment at VFL lvl and allowed time on ball - fair enough

But then, inexplicably, some of those midfield minutes carried over to AFL level too

  On 06/10/2024 at 10:55, adonski said:

I think Baz Laurie was originally drafted as a small fwd/flanker

He was given the Chandler treatment at VFL lvl and allowed time on ball - fair enough

But then, inexplicably, some of those midfield minutes carried over to AFL level too

In fairness to the coaches he’s rarely played afl midfield because they don’t trust his contest work. But is too slow to get pressure on as a forward.

Agree he was drafted as a forward, that’s why I said ‘unless you count Laurie’

  On 06/10/2024 at 10:41, DeeSpencer said:

Sure, but Jason Taylor’s never drafted a small mid unless you count Laurie.

Draper has a good solid frame and some strength but if he’s not rated as a good ball user he better be a great inside player, not sure he is.

Jagga’s small, light frame, doesn’t break lines with pace, doesn’t have a dangerous kick. What’s his weapon? Nice balance, nice hands, runs hard but most AFL players do that.

It’s less about weaknesses and more about lack of strengths. JT’s early picks have generally targeted guys with rare traits.

Think you need to actually take the time to.watch these kids..

It hasn't stopped the likes of Nick Daicos dominating from day one with his light frame? Daicos was only 73kg when he was drafted and Smith is about similarly weight and exactly same height.

Zac Butter who Jason Taylor tried desperately hard to trade up for in the 2018 draft is another similarly to Smith plays.

One of his biggest strengths is his kicking and ability to break the lines and motor himself to each contests.

Just one small example why this kid has been rated a genuine top 3 propsect for the best part of 18 months.

 

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by dazzledavey36

  On 06/10/2024 at 12:02, dazzledavey36 said:

Think you need to actually take the time to.watch these kids..

It hasn't stopped the likes of Nick Daicos dominating from day one with his light frame? Daicos was only 73kg when he was drafted and Smith is about similarly weight and exactly same height.

Zac Butter who Jason Taylor tried desperately hard to trade up for in the 2018 draft is another similarly to Smith plays.

One of his biggest strengths is his kicking and ability to break the lines and motor himself to each contests.

Just one small example why this kid has been rated a genuine top 3 propsect for the best part of 18 months.

 

Agreed. Not sure what DS is smoking, but each to their own.

Jagga for number pick 1 for me.

Contest, speed, agility, good ball use. Gonna be a star IMHO.

  On 06/10/2024 at 12:02, dazzledavey36 said:

Mate it's clearly evident you've actually haven't seen these kids play.

Has it stopped the likes of Nick Daicos dominating from day one with his light frame? Daicos was only 73kg when he was drafted and Smith is about similarly weight and exactly same height.

Zac Butter who Jason Taylor tried desperately hard to trade up for in the 2018 draft is another similarly to Smith plays.

One of his biggest strengths is his kicking and ability to break the lines and motor himself to each contests.

Just one small example why this kid has been rated a genuine top 3 propsect for the best part of 18 months.

 

Daicos has speed and a truly special kicking boot.

Zak Butters has speed, creativity and flies in at the contest with no regard for his safety but also with the ability to use his hips to win the ball. He's a dynamic inside and outside player.

I watched half that video. Yeah, he runs contest to contest exceptionally well and exposes the other juniors lack of two way running. He's generally a clean ball handler. I won't deny that. I will argue I'm not seeing any breaking the lines with pace.

0:17 - retreats backwards, gives the nothing handball that Ashcroft does wonders with to draw opponents
 0:20 - nice corridor kick
0:42 - retreats backwards, caught htb
1:00 - nice enough snap
1:20 - nothing handball
1:28 - backwards handball
1:36 - hacked clearance kick, Kako makes it look good
1: 47 - hacked clearance kick, turnover
2: 37 - calls for it under pressure, quickly makes it someone elses problem
2:45 quality gather and spin
2:54 nice long corridor switch
3:00 a clearance that goes forward!!! But he doesn't trust his pace to beat the chaser once Ashcroft gets it back to him, kick flubs wide to the other team
3:20 weak tackle
3:35 gets the ball forward in space, with team mates wide open everywhere he handballs to a guy right next to him

3.5 things caught my eye where as there was a whole lot that didn't achieve much.

The draft media is Twomey and a few other guys here and there, there's no real rankings that hold any weight with me until about now when you start to get a guide on what clubs really think. 'general view, not as talented or damaging'

He's a quality junior footballer and if he works his backside off at stoppage craft he could be like a Lachie Neale who just gets better and better. The best players aren't always the most skilled or have the best traits.

But right now I'm seeing a guy who's born early in the year and had the year off school to dedicate to footy and is very advanced in his in game running and clean hands but in terms of natural talent - pace, strength, overhead marking, explosive power, kicking distance, kicking penetration there's not much there.
 

  On 06/10/2024 at 12:21, Adam The God said:

Agreed. Not sure what DS is smoking, but each to their own.

Jagga for number pick 1 for me.

Contest, speed, agility, good ball use. Gonna be a star IMHO.

I'll happily change my mind if you can find me sustained examples of any of those 3.

  On 06/10/2024 at 12:41, DeeSpencer said:

Daicos has speed and a truly special kicking boot.

Zak Butters has speed, creativity and flies in at the contest with no regard for his safety but also with the ability to use his hips to win the ball. He's a dynamic inside and outside player.

I watched half that video. Yeah, he runs contest to contest exceptionally well and exposes the other juniors lack of two way running. He's generally a clean ball handler. I won't deny that. I will argue I'm not seeing any breaking the lines with pace.

0:17 - retreats backwards, gives the nothing handball that Ashcroft does wonders with to draw opponents
 0:20 - nice corridor kick
0:42 - retreats backwards, caught htb
1:00 - nice enough snap
1:20 - nothing handball
1:28 - backwards handball
1:36 - hacked clearance kick, Kako makes it look good
1: 47 - hacked clearance kick, turnover
2: 37 - calls for it under pressure, quickly makes it someone elses problem
2:45 quality gather and spin
2:54 nice long corridor switch
3:00 a clearance that goes forward!!! But he doesn't trust his pace to beat the chaser once Ashcroft gets it back to him, kick flubs wide to the other team
3:20 weak tackle
3:35 gets the ball forward in space, with team mates wide open everywhere he handballs to a guy right next to him

3.5 things caught my eye where as there was a whole lot that didn't achieve much.

The draft media is Twomey and a few other guys here and there, there's no real rankings that hold any weight with me until about now when you start to get a guide on what clubs really think. 'general view, not as talented or damaging'

He's a quality junior footballer and if he works his backside off at stoppage craft he could be like a Lachie Neale who just gets better and better. The best players aren't always the most skilled or have the best traits.

But right now I'm seeing a guy who's born early in the year and had the year off school to dedicate to footy and is very advanced in his in game running and clean hands but in terms of natural talent - pace, strength, overhead marking, explosive power, kicking distance, kicking penetration there's not much there.
 

He's not Chris Judd for Gods sake.

Go and watch Zac Butters junior highlights. Not flashy at all, if anything it's underwhelming compared to what Smith has shown.

You do understand not every draftee are going to have exactly every trait you've just highlighted in a footballer. 

It's utterly bizarre you think top draft prospects should be the complete package. Nick Daicos biggest weakness going into the draft was his strength and overheard marking and yet he still performs just fine.

You're nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking..

  On 06/10/2024 at 12:51, dazzledavey36 said:

He's not Chris Judd for Gods sake.

Go and watch Zac Butters junior highlights. Not flashy at all, if anything it's underwhelming compared to what Smith has shown.

You do understand not every draftee are going to have exactly every trait you've just highlighted in a footballer. 

It's utterly bizarre you think top draft prospects should be the complete package. Nick Daicos biggest weakness going into the draft was his strength and overheard marking and yet he still performs just fine.

You're nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking..

I know it's not a fair 1 to 1 fight because this is a highlight compilation but please watch this and tell me it's underwhelming or not flashy!

We've got hangers, left foot goals, ultra creative laser kicking and varied ball drops, tucking the ball under the arm with running bounces, an exceptional side step, the ability to mark and accelerate as soon as he hits the deck.

Look at how often he's driving the ball forward with pace and breaking the game open. Then compare to Jagga.

Butters is practically a mini Chris Judd! Where as Jagga is more mini Jack Macrae.

Nick Daicos doesn't have to be strong or mark overhead, he's a freak on the deck, in space and creating space. Doesn't matter if he never takes a contested mark in his career he has plenty of other weapons.

Maybe a better comparison is the Ashcrofts. Neither Ashcroft brother is all that big or physically off the charts but they both have really fast creative hands and hit the contest at pace, driving the ball forward and make great decisions with their kicks. There's a big talent difference in terms of what they do with the ball and the impact per possession.

But my point is I don't know what Jagga does well aside from run smartly contest to contest and have clean hands. I just can't see it. If there's something there I'm missing I'd like to know what it is.

Edited October 6, 2024Oct 6 by DeeSpencer

  On 06/10/2024 at 12:21, Adam The God said:

Agreed. Not sure what DS is smoking, but each to their own.

Jagga for number pick 1 for me.

Contest, speed, agility, good ball use. Gonna be a star IMHO.

Smith looks a bit like Kynan Brown to me - still haven’t decided how I feel about that 

Does Brown have more upside than many think on here or is Smith a tad over rated by some