Dees 2001-2024 = West Coast (2005-2008)

[TracWhack 4]

I always compare our list to  West Coast list of 2005-2008

 

Generational Rucks : Cox (WCE) vs Gawn (MFC)

Generational Midfield : Judd, Kerr, Cousins, Embley,Fletcher  (WCE) vs Trac, Clarry, Viney, Brayshaw, Langdon (MFC)

AA Backs : Glass , Hunter (WCE) vs May, Lever (MFC)

 

both  very average fwds line.

 

Both had 3 years at in the top 4 (with 1 premieship to show for it)  albeit Eagles got to 2nd grand final (more than we did) ) . Eagles then fell away bad and up going bottom couple years later.. I wonders if history will repeat.

 

 

[dazzledavey36 54,285]

Do you mean 2021?

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,778]

1 hour ago, TracWhack said:

 I wonders if history will repeat.

Thats certainly my concern.

There’s a stench of 2021 about our 2024 season.

West Coast started that season extremely well and had a watershed win over Richmond mid season to put themselves into top 4 contention. However they totally fell off the wagon and lost 6 of their last 8, even losing to North at home.

This year we had our watershed win over Geelong and the sky was supposedly the limit for the MFC. We’ve since also had a collapse of epic proportions.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

We haven’t looked great since Round 11 2022. Even last year we were less convincing than usual. This year is a continued down trend. I suspect next year will be about the same. 

[BDA 22,735]

That west coast team partied hard. I hope that a difference rather than a similarity with our boys. 

[JTR 2,846]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Thats certainly my concern.

There’s a stench of 2021 about our 2024 season.

West Coast started that season extremely well and had a watershed win over Richmond mid season to put themselves into top 4 contention. However they totally fell off the wagon and lost 6 of their last 8, even losing to North at home.

This year we had our watershed win over Geelong and the sky was supposedly the limit for the MFC. We’ve since also had a collapse of epic proportions.

You don't think losing Brayshaw, Petracca and Smith has anything to do with this?

Or other key injuries to irreplaceables like Gawn, Lever or May?

Or Oliver being a shadow of himself due a disastrous offseason?

Or all of a sudden losing all our depth, both as a result of the above and also with guys like Jordan, Harmes & Bedford looking for opportunity elsewhere at (in hindsight) the most inopportune moment?

Or playing a bunch of kids to try and cover all these gaps, most of whom are in their first or second seasons?

[Demonsterative 3,020]

42 minutes ago, BDA said:

That west coast team partied hard. I hope that a difference rather than a similarity with our boys. 

The season is over. Let the boys party. Just don’t be arrogant [censored] and knock each other out. 
 

😳😳 milkshake and May, I’m looking at you two. 
 

😆😆

[dazzledavey36 54,285]

34 minutes ago, JTR said:

You don't think losing Brayshaw, Petracca and Smith has anything to do with this?

Or other key injuries to irreplaceables like Gawn, Lever or May?

Or Oliver being a shadow of himself due a disastrous offseason?

Or all of a sudden losing all our depth, both as a result of the above and also with guys like Jordan, Harmes & Bedford looking for opportunity elsewhere at (in hindsight) the most inopportune moment?

Or playing a bunch of kids to try and cover all these gaps, most of whom are in their first or second seasons?

You really clutching at some straws here..

First of all, the Brayshaw one I get, unexpected retirement which obviously shakes the place up and comes at a time where from a list management perspective, you simply don't get the chance to fill the void.

Smith isn't a big loss at all, he'll most likely be delisted this year and someone that continued to struggle with injuries.. makes sense in a way with his complete lack of professionalism.

On Petracca, we still had a fully fit trac against the likes of West Coast and Fremantle and it made zero difference to us getting thumped. 

On the injuries front this year alone, Gawns missed 2 games this year, May had only missed one game prior to this rib injury on the weekend and Lever had missed 4. These are absolutely not long term injuries.

This whole injuries excuse is getting tiresome.

Brisbane lost Kiddy Coleman to an ACL at the start of the year and someone who was probably a Norm Smith winner had Brisbane gotten up in last year's grand final. Incredibly important across half back who just sets them up beautifully with his precise foot skills.

They also lost Lincoln McCarthy to another ACL this year who is one of their hard working half forwards that's similar to ANB in terms of importance to the team.

They've had their second best key defender in Jack Payne miss 7 games this year to injuries and then Will Ashcroft has missed half a year to a knee injury and looks like he hasn't missed a beat.

What have they done? Made zero excuses and just got on with it. They've found soldiers to help fill the void and have even had to rely on 1st and 2nd year players as well. 

We haven't even been hit hard with injuries at all this year. Petracca is probably the only best 22 player that is out with a long term injury as it stands.

We have zero depth because we failed to address and fill that void. That's absolutely on the whole coaching staff and recruitment team. That should not be an excuse when they clearly refused to address this in the off season especially around the ruck situation. 

[Pennant St Dee 13,118]

2 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

We haven’t looked great since Round 11 2022. Even last year we were less convincing than usual. This year is a continued down trend. I suspect next year will be about the same. 

That is just not true in anyway.

Whilst things aren’t currently looking good I hate the rewriting of history

We actually looked very good heading towards the end of the home and away season 2023. We won 8 from 9 heading into finals and looked to have solved our scoring issues with Petty and Melk looking good forward with the normal fwd mix. Petty went down in Rd 21 vs North and after a close loss to the Blues we changed the dynamic with Smith, Mel, Roo, Fritta and Kozzie fwd and were travelling well.

We absolutely destroyed the Swans up there in the final home and away round but unfortunately lost Melk to the ACL and Fritta injured the foot which hampered him for the remainder of the year

So please don’t tell me we didn’t improve since Rd 11 2022. We may have won 10 in a row to start 2022 but I reckon we weren’t actually playing that well and some opponents were actually a bit overawed by us

Edited August 5 by Pennant St Dee

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,778]

10 hours ago, JTR said:

You don't think losing Brayshaw, Petracca and Smith has anything to do with this?

Or other key injuries to irreplaceables like Gawn, Lever or May?

Or Oliver being a shadow of himself due a disastrous offseason?

Or all of a sudden losing all our depth, both as a result of the above and also with guys like Jordan, Harmes & Bedford looking for opportunity elsewhere at (in hindsight) the most inopportune moment?

Or playing a bunch of kids to try and cover all these gaps, most of whom are in their first or second seasons?

Last week heading into the Dogs game we had Petrcca, a first year winger and an underperforming Salem unavailable. If that’s not enough available players to launch an assault on the finals then we’re not the team I was hoping we were.

With respect to Brayshaw, we’ve had 20 weeks to find a way to cover him. Coleman went down for Brisbane and yet they’re flag favourites.

Last year we had injuries, this year we’re having injuries and next year we’ll get injuries. A good team will find a way to cover them.

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

10 hours ago, JTR said:

You don't think losing Brayshaw, Petracca and Smith has anything to do with this?

Or other key injuries to irreplaceables like Gawn, Lever or May?

Or Oliver being a shadow of himself due a disastrous offseason?

Or all of a sudden losing all our depth, both as a result of the above and also with guys like Jordan, Harmes & Bedford looking for opportunity elsewhere at (in hindsight) the most inopportune moment?

Or playing a bunch of kids to try and cover all these gaps, most of whom are in their first or second seasons?

Nah, none of that is relevant to some folk, who are just so myopic about the W/L and what the optics look like on game day irrespective of personnel.

It's this constant need to place blame somewhere as though the FD and athletes aren't chipping away at improving systems, themselves and ultimately outcomes.

The expectations since the '21 finals have been so lofty, that anything less (which was inevitable) is seen as failure and thus any individual or in effect the whole club is culpable.

🤷‍♀️🫠

Edited August 5 by Engorged Onion

[layzie 33,752]

14 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Last week heading into the Dogs game we had Petrcca, a first year winger and an underperforming Salem unavailable. If that’s not enough available players to launch an assault on the finals then we’re not the team I was hoping we were.

With respect to Brayshaw, we’ve had 20 weeks to find a way to cover him. Coleman went down for Brisbane and yet they’re flag favourites.

Last year we had injuries, this year we’re having injuries and next year we’ll get injuries. A good team will find a way to cover them.

For instance, someone like Clarry. I understand and respect this isn't the real version of Clarry but with a player of his ability and stature, you would at least think that a 70-80% Oliver would still provide good value and that our midfield could hold their own in the contest. 

Not downplaying this in any way but I don't want to see this factor take away from other glaring issues like the way we are setting up at stoppages, depth in midfield etc. 

[Lucifers Hero 39,598]

3 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

Nah, none of that is relevant to some folk, who are just so myopic about the W/L and what the optics look like on game day irrespective of personnel.

It's this constant need to place blame somewhere as though the FD and athletes aren't chipping away at improving systems, themselves and ultimately outcomes.

The expectations since the '21 finals have been so lofty, that anything less (which was inevitable) is seen as failure and thus any individual or in effect the whole club is culpable.

🤷‍♀️🫠

The first para is unfair to all the posters who present well reasoned observations on games and the season(s).  And gee whizz they sometimes use stats to back up those observations!  'Myopic' could equally apply to those whose view is thru the narrow lens of looking for 'reasons' however removed from cause and effect those 'reasons' might be.  Thankfully, most posters fit between the myopic extremes.

For the second para how many people are trying to constantly place blame?   It is generalising and imv unfair to most posters.  Nonetheless, I 100% agree with you that everyone at the club is constantly looking to improve and we have seen good signs of improvement.

The third para.  The 'lofty expectations' were set immediately after the final siren of 2021 when our Captain et al openly talked about 'dynasty', win it at the G, for our families, for the fans etc.  Therefore, It wasn't unreasonable for fans to adopt those expectations nor is it unreasonable for them to be disappointed and express that.  Also few would say that 2022-2024 has been a 'failure' but it would be fair to say we have under performed.  There is a difference.

😇

Edited August 6 by Lucifers Hero

[ElDiablo14 4,991]

15 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

The first para is unfair to all the posters who present well reasoned observations on games and the season(s).  And gee whizz they sometimes use stats to back up those observations!  'Myopic' could equally apply to those whose view is thru the narrow lens of looking for 'reasons' however removed from cause and effect those 'reasons' might be.  Thankfully, most posters fit between the myopic extremes.

For the second para how many people are trying to constantly place blame?   It is generalising and imv unfair to most posters.  Nonetheless, I 100% agree with you that everyone at the club is constantly looking to improve and we have seen good signs of improvement.

The third para.  The 'lofty expectations' were set immediately after the final siren of 2021 when our Captain et all openly talked about 'dynasty', win it at the G, for our families and fans etc.  Therefore, It wasn't unreasonable for fans to adopt those expectations.  Also few would say that 2022-2024 has been a 'failure' but it would be fair to say we have under performed.  There is a difference.

😇

Put it simple... How would anyone rate our 0 - 4 finals record? All of those games played at the G btw.

 

[Lucifers Hero 39,598]

9 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Put it simple... How would anyone rate our 0 - 4 finals record? All of those games played at the G btw.

 

My guess is most would be disappointed which includes players, coaches and fans. 

I went to each of those 4 finals and what I saw were players who gave their all in difficult circumstances.

[ElDiablo14 4,991]

3 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

My guess is most would be disappointed which includes players, coaches and fans. 

I went to each of those 4 finals and what I saw were players who gave their all in difficult circumstances.

Reality is that we should have at least won two of those 4 games.

SF 2022 against Brisbane, we dominated the first half and wasted our opportunities. We should've been 5 goals up but we weren't, then we just faded away in the second half.

SF 2023 against Carlton, similar to the above but with the added pain that all we needed was for Viney not to gift a turnover to Carlton in the last 30 seconds. Or McVee over committing to try to spoil the disposal and leaving heaps of space behind him. Those were more mental errors under duress.