11 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

The answer is yes if the board had leaked to the media that his career was riding on this result. There would absolutely nothing to gain by beating West Coast by 14 points with probably 20 more scoring shots. And let’s face it, beating West Coast is basically an automatic 4 points for every club. Even Richmond belted them the other week

But given none of us knows what’s going on, I’m totally ambivalent about this result. A win basically achieves nothing aside from the Turner’s, Lindsay’s, Windsor’s and Langford’s singing the song for a rare time.

There's actually a perverse incentive for Goodwin to lose this game. He'd get sacked and the club would have to pay him in full for the remainder of the year and next year while he sits on a beach.

Our club writes even better contracts than the state government of Victoria. No matter what happens we'll pay you ++++++++++

3 hours ago, DemonWA said:

I guess the difference between our view points is that im not convinced our list is as good as all the hysteria would suggest it is. I agree with goody that we need to change game style and turn the list over. I can see progress in these spaces.

I have confidence that Goody can get us back into finals without needing a drawn out, bottom out period.

Take the emotion out of it. Who out there is a better coach for our team and how many years would you give them to have us being a finals team. Its clear that weve lacked a genuine key forward since David Neitz, and the short lived cameo of Ben Brown was enough to get us the flag.

We blew golden opertunities in 2022 and 2023, and the last 2 years had seen us need to make changes. I feel like the emotional toll of the lack of a flag at the G is turning people into irrational thinkers on this subject. The weekends loss was a disaster but I put it more on the players than anyone else.

Taking emption out of it. Just facts.

Petty and JVR are not in the top 150 forwards for marks inside 50 a game. The stat most correlated with win loss. Both facts. With half decent forward, which our list has, we would be playing finals (opinion)

Pickett, Melksham and Fritta all are top 60 so lets not just blame delivery. Its shocking yes but these guys manage to get it done.. In fact, all three are at their career highs for marks inside 50 per game. If i continue to take enotion out of it, i would conclude that maybe its time to try May up forward, maybe Turner, maybe Jefferson who has nearly has many marks inside 50 as JVR and Petty despite playing only a handful of games.

The poster is correct, Goodwin believes in his process despite evidence suggesting he needs to change the vaiables. He refuses to try new things. Its got nothing to do with emotions. Hes just getting it wrong with what he has. Plain and simple.

Edited yesterday at 14:431 day by Jjrogan

2 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Why do I get thumbs down for stating facts?

coz everyone knows our recent finals record

we all know we went out in straight sets 2 years in a row

you continually say the same stuff over and over

4 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Why do I get thumbs down for stating facts?

everyone is very grumpy this week

10 hours ago, Vineytime said:

I think the club is looking at potential other options to coach us next year. Nathan Buckley at the helm, how would we feel about that?

Slightly ill comes to mind

10 hours ago, DemonWA said:

I guess the difference between our view points is that im not convinced our list is as good as all the hysteria would suggest it is. I agree with goody that we need to change game style and turn the list over. I can see progress in these spaces.

I have confidence that Goody can get us back into finals without needing a drawn out, bottom out period.

Take the emotion out of it. Who out there is a better coach for our team and how many years would you give them to have us being a finals team. Its clear that weve lacked a genuine key forward since David Neitz, and the short lived cameo of Ben Brown was enough to get us the flag.

We blew golden opertunities in 2022 and 2023, and the last 2 years had seen us need to make changes. I feel like the emotional toll of the lack of a flag at the G is turning people into irrational thinkers on this subject. The weekends loss was a disaster but I put it more on the players than anyone else.

I would agree that our list is far from fantastic as some suppose. Some talent has stalled, some staled and some is stifled. There are possibly a few rough gems but this list is never winning a flag ( my opinion). I'd also agree with Simon, you, anyone... game needs to change.

I have 0% in Goody now. He's had time and opportunity and come up with NADA , Zilch. We're still trajectoring down ... still.

Yes, by all means let's take emotion out of this.

Quite simply we've won [censored] all games for a [censored] long time. Same [censored] wits in charge !!

It's clear and simple. Wholesale change is required. The unfortunate part is it's probably nigh impossible to do what's really required, all emotion taken out.

Nix half the board, Junk most the FD ..

Purge half the list.

Thats how bad we currently are... really.

23 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I would agree that our list is far from fantastic as some suppose. Some talent has stalled, some staled and some is stifled. There are possibly a few rough gems but this list is never winning a flag ( my opinion). I'd also agree with Simon, you, anyone... game needs to change.

I have 0% in Goody now. He's had time and opportunity and come up with NADA , Zilch. We're still trajectoring down ... still.

Yes, by all means let's take emotion out of this.

Quite simply we've won [censored] all games for a [censored] long time. Same [censored] wits in charge !!

It's clear and simple. Wholesale change is required. The unfortunate part is it's probably nigh impossible to do what's really required, all emotion taken out.

Nix half the board, Junk most the FD ..

Purge half the list.

Thats how bad we currently are... really.

I guess im never a fan of change for the sake of change. We will have a new CEO and President. Changes are happening. Is a new coach actually needed or would it just appease those wanting someone more visible to take a fall.

2 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

I guess im never a fan of change for the sake of change. We will have a new CEO and President. Changes are happening. Is a new coach actually needed or would it just appease those wanting someone more visible to take a fall.

The new coach bit. .. I actually ( surprisingly to some perhaps) comprehend the notion .

Taking as much unecessary 'fugazi' out of the question I do still land on the side that answers. Yes, the coach needs refreshing. Not merely the coaching... but the whole shebang as its being demonstrated, I think very clearly, that we have not the 'game' ( certainly not a comprehensive and/or effective) nor the ability to get to it. By that we seem a distance off being clean and damaging. If I was to be cruel we're much better and stuffing up than getting things right. This can only be partly the players the rest is how they're coached and what it is they're coached to play. We're not winning much despite ALL the efforts. Whatever touch Simon had, is long gone. This is not about him its about the team. The team needs better, better than what's possible currently.

Edited 20 hours ago20 hr by beelzebub

11 hours ago, Vineytime said:

I think the club is looking at potential other options to coach us next year. Nathan Buckley at the helm, how would we feel about that?

No thanks, he took over a young premiership list from Malthouse and spent 9 years without winning one and handed over to McRae who won a premiership with the list Buckley handed over.

Why would he be the answer? Sounds good in the media and knows footy but his coaching history doesn't indicate he would be the man to take us to where we want to go

There are definitely issues with the playing group that need to be resolved. There’s been a glaring difference between ability v output. maybe we have all overrated our list or maybe it is the coaching (probably both).

I think the board will decide to bring in a new coach to see if he can get a tune out of this group.

If he can’t then next step is bite the bullet and trade the likes of trac and clarry.

Personally I think goodys voice has become stale. No dishonour in that, it happens all the time. I reckon we will make the change.

13 minutes ago, BDA said:

There are definitely issues with the playing group that need to be resolved. There’s been a glaring difference between ability v output. maybe we have all overrated our list or maybe it is the coaching (probably both).

I think the board will decide to bring in a new coach to see if he can get a tune out of this group.

If he can’t then next step is bite the bullet and trade the likes of trac and clarry.

Personally I think goodys voice has become stale. No dishonour in that, it happens all the time. I reckon we will make the change.

I think some trades need to be considered while some have the currency.

We aren't going to be tilting at anything for a year or two.(and..) Might as well do the unpleasant unpalatable things sooner rather than later.

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I think some trades need to be considered while some have the currency.

We aren't going to be tilting at anything for a year or two.(and..) Might as well do the unpleasant unpalatable things sooner rather than later.

We may well consider trades but I’m not sure we will get a decent return hence the board might decide better to try a new voice before biting the bullet

10 hours ago, DemonWA said:

I dont think he is wiping his hands of it at all.

And it's hindsight to say the decline has been since 2021. We were in it to our eyeballs in 2022 and 2023.

Ahh.. but its both..

We were there...or thereabouts. But the rot had started.

The reasons ( some possibly varied ) included the inability to finish off those games and the causality to that was part and parcel of all the things that got worse.

So I would contend 22/23 and subsequent are not mutually at odds but different shades of the same .

6 hours ago, DubDee said:

coz everyone knows our recent finals record

we all know we went out in straight sets 2 years in a row

you continually say the same stuff over and over

Continually as in every single day or every single post?

I was commenting on DWA perspective and how we can't look at 2022 and 2023 as good years based on the fact that we had (and still have) a premiership wining list.

4 minutes ago, BDA said:

We may well consider trades but I’m not sure we will get a decent return hence the board might decide better to try a new voice before biting the bullet

I have no doubt we won't get the value many would seek or suppose. Thats going to be a bitter pill but one we'll have to swallow none the less lest we just get left at the station.

And this, to me, only highlights the importance and imperative nature of biting said bullet with regard to the FD

39 minutes ago, DemonWA said:

I guess im never a fan of change for the sake of change. We will have a new CEO and President. Changes are happening. Is a new coach actually needed or would it just appease those wanting someone more visible to take a fall.

If you have read this and other threads, people have called for many changes. Not just Simon, but he is part of the change required. His last presser just made it clearer to me, at least.

9 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Ahh.. but its both..

We were there...or thereabouts. But the rot had started.

The reasons ( some possibly varied ) included the inability to finish off those games and the causality to that was part and parcel of all the things that got worse.

So I would contend 22/23 and subsequent are not mutually at odds but different shades of the same .

Spot on BSB. We were left behind by the competition. Like in a 400 m race, we had amazing 200 me then we started to lag behind the leaders. Now we can't even qualify to the final race.

12 hours ago, DemonWA said:

Its fair to have gone in with confidence. But neither Trac or Clarry dominate like they once did. If you take that assumption out of the expectation and shandy it with the fact none of our young KPF stocks have really grabbed their roles then you get what you get.

Sure but once we realised it wasn't our year surely we would expect to see a bit more change at selection, experimentation with positions etc. It's been pretty clear for a while now that those our highly paid stars have been playing beneath themselves. Yet we have continued to play them as our core midfield. Goodwin backs them in every week even though we completely shifted the goalposts for our expectations this year.

If this was actually a development year we would be seeing way more variety through the middle. Rivers for example showed genuine promise in the midfield last year but has been stuck at half back all year because Viney, Trac and Oliver have to take up all the midfield minutes. I'd love to see what Windsor or Langford could do with some CBA's.

Drain the Swamp!!

All those involved in the FD need to be looked at!

Probably the worst is Jones as our midfield schemes are non-existent. Worse than Brian Royal's 4 years of nothing

I can't remember the last time we had a clean clearance (with all that talent)

Richardson overseas it all ... massive Fail

What does Williams do apart from pat players on the back? Development? Develop what? He's a Cheerleader

Lamb's list management is a complete disaster. Lengthy contracts everywhere with very little wriggle room

Handed out the $$$$'s like confetti

Our defence leaks goals - Bassett is a failure

Our offense stinks to high heaven. Chaplin has failed

The team is unfit and can't run out games. Selwyn Griffiths is responsible

The Board overseas all of the above. Fail

Jobs for the boys!!!

What about the list? Issues everywhere!

I'd bring in Longmire as coach and ask him to hand pick his own team (as it's looking like the club will probably move on Goodwin sooner or later)

Jason Taylor - Keeper

PJ? Forget Smith, PJ for President! (Smith can be a Board member)

Do we have a skills coach? If so, sack him!! If we haven't got a skills coach, why not?

Our skills are woeful

Drain the Swamp!!!

Edited 18 hours ago18 hr by Macca

19 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

West Coast are terrible, they are as close to a 'free hit' as you will ever get in AFL, and they have no incentive to win having asked for draft assistance.

If we don't take this golden opportunity to try something new, and actually give some younger players opportunities, then I am afraid that all this talk about change and progress is a load of BS.

I agree with this. It's not something a coach would ever say - and it can backfire if the new tactics and players just don't work - but if not now, when?

That's why I'm so disappointed with just two changes.

Yes, it'll be great to have a look at Culley, but why not Adams? (I keep wondering why did Gawn mention Adams as a certain debutant two weeks ago and we still haven't seen him.) Why not Brown? Why not look at Johnson again? Or Jefferson? And if not either, why not give Kentfield a taste? If the answer, as it seems to have been all year, is they're just nowhere near good enough, then we have perhaps the worst depth in the comp and so this idea that we're "in a hurry" to return to finals-capable footy is wishful thinking, if not a complete con.

I want to win this game. I'm too scarred by the tanking years to say "I want to lose because it brings about something better". I have no doubt constantly losing affects the development of kids. But I don't want to win, as you said, doing roughly what we've done for the last 20 weeks.

44 minutes ago, Macca said:

Drain the Swamp!!

All those involved in the FD need to be looked at!

Probably the worst is Jones as our midfield schemes are non-existent. Worse than Brian Royal's 4 years of nothing

I can't remember the last time we had a clean clearance (with all that talent)

Richardson overseas it all ... massive Fail

What does Williams do apart from pat players on the back? Development? Develop what? He's a Cheerleader

Lamb's list management is a complete disaster. Lengthy contracts everywhere with very little wriggle room

Handed out the $$$$'s like confetti

Our defence leaks goals - Bassett is a failure

Our offense stinks to high heaven. Chaplin has failed

The team is unfit and can't run out games. Selwyn Griffiths is responsible

The Board overseas all of the above. Fail

Jobs for the boys!!!

What about the list? Issues everywhere!

I'd bring in Longmire as coach and ask him to hand pick his own team (as it's looking like the club will probably move on Goodwin sooner or later)

Jason Taylor - Keeper

PJ? Forget Smith, PJ for President! (Smith can be a Board member)

Do we have a skills coach? If so, sack him!! If we haven't got a skills coach, why not?

Our skills are woeful

Drain the Swamp!!!

About sums it up.

Take off any coloured glasses, allow the fog to lift and step a bit closer for a proper squizz and that's just about as good an appreciation of the real mess we're in as any. Some of course will suggest it's a very negative view. And I can understand if life is all sunshine and lollipops that might be a valid critique but I would ask anyone to show me any part of our setup that is working properly and with positive outcomes because quite frankly I struggle.

We don't have a proper home. We invariably share facilities.

Currently operate with temporary senior management etc.

Members are ditching in droves

The FD is dodgy

The Coach is past exp.

The list is overated, and many underperforming.

We're back to setting records.... the wrong ones !!

We are on a steady decline towards the edge of a football abyss.

This CAN change. I don't even want to speculate about where or what awaits if drastic measures aren't taken.

Even with change Rome won't reappear overnight, but you could at least start to build it.

Time for a clean sheet of paper.

15 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

About sums it up.

Take off any coloured glasses, allow the fog to lift and step a bit closer for a proper squizz and that's just about as good an appreciation of the real mess we're in as any. Some of course will suggest it's a very negative view. And I can understand if life is all sunshine and lollipops that might be a valid critique but I would ask anyone to show me any part of our setup that is working properly and with positive outcomes because quite frankly I struggle.

We don't have a proper home. We invariably share facilities.

Currently operate with temporary senior management etc.

Members are ditching in droves

The FD is dodgy

The Coach is past exp.

The list is overated, and many underperforming.

We're back to setting records.... the wrong ones !!

We are on a steady decline towards the edge of a football abyss.

This CAN change. I don't even want to speculate about where or what awaits if drastic measures aren't taken.

Even with change Rome won't reappear overnight, but you could at least start to build it.

Time for a clean sheet of paper.

The Board is now talking tough but let's see if they're fair dinkum

There's is nothing wrong with a cleanout and an overhaul and we've seen that happen with PJ from early 2013 onwards

The difference between then and now is that the current list of players (although underperforming) are a lot better than the list of players in 2013

What we need to accept is that there is short-term pain involved when you go down the track of overhauling all the positions (player personnel as well) ... but is that any different to what is happening now anyway?

We're not in flag contention anytime soon so we need a decent plan that will see the team prosper, down the track

And there are any number of would-be candidates to fill the other roles within the FD

I just hope that the existing positions aren't tied to people on long term contracts

10 minutes ago, Macca said:

The Board is now talking tough but let's see if they're fair dinkum

There's is nothing wrong with a cleanout and an overhaul and we've seen that happen with PJ from early 2013 onwards

The difference between then and now is that the current list of players (although underperforming) are a lot better than the list of players in 2013

What we need to accept is that there is short-term pain involved when you go down the track of overhauling all the positions (player personnel as well) ... but is that any different to what is happening now anyway?

We're not in flag contention anytime soon so we need a decent plan that will see the team prosper, down the track

And there are any number of would-be candidates to fill the other roles within the FD

I just hope that the existing positions aren't tied to people on long term contracts

The board and the entire club need to be fair dinkum about what was promised. Was it Pert who said we would become perennial contenders? No more embarrassments?

Actions speak louder than words/letters.

What’s the bet Petty starts forward this week cause it’s worked so well in the past.

Not sure why but Goodwin just doesn’t want to change certain things when it’s clear as daylight THAT IT AINT WORKING.

This is part of the problem and does my head in.

Edited 16 hours ago16 hr by DemonOX

2 hours ago, Macca said:

Drain the Swamp!!

All those involved in the FD need to be looked at!

Probably the worst is Jones as our midfield schemes are non-existent. Worse than Brian Royal's 4 years of nothing

I can't remember the last time we had a clean clearance (with all that talent)

Richardson overseas it all ... massive Fail

What does Williams do apart from pat players on the back? Development? Develop what? He's a Cheerleader

Lamb's list management is a complete disaster. Lengthy contracts everywhere with very little wriggle room

Handed out the $$$$'s like confetti

Our defence leaks goals - Bassett is a failure

Our offense stinks to high heaven. Chaplin has failed

The team is unfit and can't run out games. Selwyn Griffiths is responsible

The Board overseas all of the above. Fail

Jobs for the boys!!!

What about the list? Issues everywhere!

I'd bring in Longmire as coach and ask him to hand pick his own team (as it's looking like the club will probably move on Goodwin sooner or later)

Jason Taylor - Keeper

PJ? Forget Smith, PJ for President! (Smith can be a Board member)

Do we have a skills coach? If so, sack him!! If we haven't got a skills coach, why not?

Our skills are woeful

Drain the Swamp!!!

Whilst I am not disagreeing with any of your points, I am concerned that we need to make so many changes and wonder if anyone within our organisation has the capacity to make the right changes and appointments.

There's only a few weeks left in the season, we have some time between then and trade period but it is still not far away? When do we start making changes? Who is going to start reviewing our personnel?

I think the head of the football department needs an immediate review. There needs to be some urgency in our plans for change (improvement).